insuring a trawler cruising trawler

[Skippy jack]

I'm looking to up size in the near future and have questions about insurance.
I do understand old trawlers can be difficult, but a lot of what i'm read is larger vessels that are rather expensive. I'm hoping to get a better understanding at what cost or insuring value do things become more difficult. And what level my experience plays in.

I'll be 50 in may, i have owned and operated boats most of my life. I currently have a 25' skipjack that i fish off of and spend some time on in the summer. The boat is insured with progressive, clean history and in good standing.
I insured it upon purchase, a simple agreed upon value. I believe it's $27000 and it was no big deal.

Fast forward and i'm now at the point where i have a little more time to send on the water.
I would like to purchase a trawler that i can take down the California coast and spend a couple year cruising the SOC. During cruiser season.
The vessels that i'm interested in are in the 50,000 to 60,000 ranger. Most of these trawlers are built in the 70s, glass no woodys.

So now that you know a bit about me and my plan, i'm looking for feed back. How difficult is it going to be for me to insure a potential boat as described. I'm hoping that the boats i'm looking being a lesser value to insure. Maybe wont be as difficult as an individual with no experience trying to insure a 300k vessel.

 

[Mainship Pilot]

I'm looking to up size in the near future and have questions about insurance.
I do understand old trawlers can be difficult, but a lot of what i'm read is larger vessels that are rather expensive. I'm hoping to get a better understanding at what cost or insuring value do things become more difficult. And what level my experience plays in.

I'll be 50 in may, i have owned and operated boats most of my life. I currently have a 25' skipjack that i fish off of and spend some time on in the summer. The boat is insured with progressive, clean history and in good standing.
I insured it upon purchase, a simple agreed upon value. I believe it's $27000 and it was no big deal.

Fast forward and i'm now at the point where i have a little more time to send on the water.
I would like to purchase a trawler that i can take down the California coast and spend a couple year cruising the SOC. During cruiser season.
The vessels that i'm interested in are in the 50,000 to 60,000 ranger. Most of these trawlers are built in the 70s, glass no woodys.

So now that you know a bit about me and my plan, i'm looking for feed back. How difficult is it going to be for me to insure a potential boat as described. I'm hoping that the boats i'm looking being a lesser value to insure. Maybe wont be as difficult as an individual with no experience trying to insure a 300k vessel.

Getting boat insurance, or any insurance these day's here in CA is challenge, doable, but a challenge! You will more than likely have to use an insurance broker to source the best fit for your new/used boat you seek. If I were you, I'd have that conversation before you pull the trigger to make sure it's insurable,and if so, affordable to insure! The only other solution is to not insure, but then you can't get a public slip to keep it in permanently.

 

[NWboater2]

I guess I get to be the first person to recommend insurance guru Peter ricks (pau Hana on this forum) at Novamar. Top notch. I’m sure others will agree. Good luck!

 

[Comodave]

I guess I get to be the first person to recommend insurance guru Peter ricks (pau Hana on this forum) at Novamar. Top notch. I’m sure others will agree. Good luck!

Only absolutely!

 

[Skippy jack]

Thanks for the feed back thus far. I have a very good idea of what i'm looking for in my next boat, i even have a few models in mind. But with out having an exact boat and price i wasn't sure how much the agents would be able to answer.
If you guys think some calls would be helpful at this stage i will most certainly do that.

 

[SeaDogAK]

It’s sometimes said that going up more than 10’ on boat length causes problems. I’d suggest talking to a marine insurance agent early in the process. Not a general purpose insurance agency, and not an insurance company like Geico. If you have trouble getting through to Peter I use Boat Insurance Agency in Seattle; I believe they work with people all over the West Coast.

 

[SteveK]

If you favor a particular boat, ask for a pre purchase insurance quote on it. I am sure many purchasers include a condition in the purchase contract to obtain satisfactory insurance before completing the sale.

 

[slowgoesit]

Agree with the advice given above, but I want to address another item you mentioned.

"The vessels that i'm interested in are in the 50,000 to 60,000 ranger. Most of these trawlers are built in the 70s, glass no woodys"

I am assuming you are talking the $50k to $60k range? That may be hard to find a vessel that is doable to head down the coast safely. I would highly recommend a vessel with some kind of stabilization as well, which will probably add to the cost. Buy the boat already with stabilization, because it will probably cost more than your purchase budget to add it later.

You don't mention whether you have a partner or not. If you do, I would recommend a minimum of 42', and a maximum of say 55'. 45' to 50' being ideal (as far as we are concerned.) Enough room for an extra couple to spend a week or so. If single, purchase toward the 42' range.

It's not just about space, it's about seakeeping ability. A longer boat handles short, choppy waves, or swells with shorter period better than a shorter boat. Of course, there are trade-offs, as larger boats cost more to maintain, and finding a slip is more difficult, as well as more expensive.

You also may want to bone up on some of more classes like USCG Auxiliary, or Power Squadron classes to make you more attractive to the insurance companies.
Best of luck in whatever you decide!

 

[Skippy jack]

Agree with the advice given above, but I want to address another item you mentioned.

"The vessels that i'm interested in are in the 50,000 to 60,000 ranger. Most of these trawlers are built in the 70s, glass no woodys"

I am assuming you are talking the $50k to $60k range? That may be hard to find a vessel that is doable to head down the coast safely. I would highly recommend a vessel with some kind of stabilization as well, which will probably add to the cost. Buy the boat already with stabilization, because it will probably cost more than your purchase budget to add it later.

You don't mention whether you have a partner or not. If you do, I would recommend a minimum of 42', and a maximum of say 55'. 45' to 50' being ideal (as far as we are concerned.) Enough room for an extra couple to spend a week or so. If single, purchase toward the 42' range.

It's not just about space, it's about seakeeping ability. A longer boat handles short, choppy waves, or swells with shorter period better than a shorter boat. Of course, there are trade-offs, as larger boats cost more to maintain, and finding a slip is more difficult, as well as more expensive.

You also may want to bone up on some of more classes like USCG Auxiliary, or Power Squadron classes to make you more attractive to the insurance companies.
Best of luck in whatever you decide!

Just myself and a 40lbs. dog. Been that way for some time now, would like to have room should that change.
Biggest concern is the boat being sea worthy enough for the seas i will be in. And being able to properly maintain the the boat over the years of ownership.

Very interested in the roughwater 36' and 37' and the willard boats.
Still trying to identify other trawler types that are sea worthy for are pacific coast and in my price point.

Biggest challenge seems to be finding something with the fuel capacity to get from Ensenada to Cabo {that i feel comfortable singe handing }.

Once in the Sea of Cortez i expect conditions to be much smoother, northern area can still be a long ways between fuel stops. {i have boated s.o.c. only a little}.

 

[Captain_Michael]

Any marine insurance agent can provide a good conversation and estimate as to (1) what size boat they will ensure you for, and (2) cost. Your experience, training, etc., all play a role.

I did the Baja-ha-ha in 2019 with friends in their sailboat. Our first stop was Bahia Tortuga. I recall folks being able to get diesel there. A fellow had the local license/monopoly and charged accordingly, but the fuel was there and no one mumbled about the quality.

 

[GrandWood]

I was a bit worried about getting insurance on a 1972 GB36 woodie, the sellers broker pointed me to State Farm, 500k liability, agent said 50.00, I thought a month wow that’s cheap, NO, that’s for a year��, I also added uninsured/under insured boater, in case I get plowed into for 80.00 a yr, 130.00 bucks total. Full coverage after a survey is 620.00 a yr, will be next year after I’ve fixed/repaired the boat, and haul out.

Not sure if it’s just here in the PNW or what but I expected to pay quite a bit more.

My new 10ft dinghy with 8hp Yamaha outboard costs me more as its new and I have full replacement on it, 178.00 a year.

 

[mvweebles]

....

Very interested in the roughwater 36' and 37' and the willard boats.
Still trying to identify other trawler types that are sea worthy for are pacific coast and in my price point.

Biggest challenge seems to be finding something with the fuel capacity to get from Ensenada to Cabo {that i feel comfortable singe handing }.

Once in the Sea of Cortez i expect conditions to be much smoother, northern area can still be a long ways between fuel stops. {i have boated s.o.c. only a little}.

The Roughwater 36 is a much, much different boat than the Roughwater 37. R37 is a much better built boat.

There are a ton of boats suitable to cruise the Baja coast. The Willard's are great little boats, but assuming the boat was in decent condition, I'd do the same trip with a GB36/42, a Defever 41, Albin 40, Hershine 37, Bayliner 38, Uniflite 42/Viking 43, Gulfstar 36/42, and the list goes on and on. Spend $250/year for PredidtWind subscription and Starlink and you're off and running. It's not about the boat.

Peter

FYI - attached picture of real time as I write 50 nms off the coast of El Salvador. We waited several days for a nice weather window.

 

[Skippy jack]

The Roughwater 36 is a much, much different boat than the Roughwater 37. R37 is a much better built boat.

There are a ton of boats suitable to cruise the Baja coast. The Willard's are great little boats, but assuming the boat was in decent condition, I'd do the same trip with a GB36/42, a Defever 41, Albin 40, Hershine 37, Bayliner 38, Uniflite 42/Viking 43, Gulfstar 36/42, and the list goes on and on. Spend $250/year for PredidtWind subscription and Starlink and you're off and running. It's not about the boat.

Peter

FYI - attached picture of real time as I write 50 nms off the coast of El Salvador. We waited several days for a nice weather window.

Peter i do enjoy following your post, so much valuable information here. I'm a sponge very time i log in, then i'm not able to sleep at night (it's a good thing).

I will look at some of these models you suggested. Still figuring out what boats are from where, Taiwan, Hong Kong, U.S. . Witch boats have simi hulls and witch ones are full displacement.

I don't won't to get over critical on boat selection, nor do i want to end up with the wrong boat. I really appreciate all the advise.

 

[Snapdragon III]

One Area I would be proactive on is talking to your insurance company of between the time you survey a boat, and when you close on it. If they are requiring a survey to get insurance, they may require you to fix some issues that come up in the survey before they will write the policy. This is fine as long as you are expecting it and it doesn't catch you be surprise. I have had frustrating situations were systems that were installed well decades ago and had worked perfectly the whole time, came up on the survey as "Does not meet current code." The insurance company wanted it reworked which would have cost 10's of thousands of dollars. In the end we worked it out, but it's a discussion to have before you close, not after.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter i do enjoy following your post, so much valuable information here. I'm a sponge very time i log in, then i'm not able to sleep at night (it's a good thing).

I will look at some of these models you suggested. Still figuring out what boats are from where, Taiwan, Hong Kong, U.S. . Witch boats have simi hulls and witch ones are full displacement.

I don't won't to get over critical on boat selection, nor do i want to end up with the wrong boat. I really appreciate all the advise.

You may want to start a new thread for boat selection and ideas.

We just got done taking a mid-ocean swim. I think boat type and style is important for lifestyle choices even more so than choosing a robust seaworthy boat. Although I'm currently sitting in a very nice Norshavn pilothouse halfway through a 500nm run, I like sedan layouts because pilothouse layouts have a lot of wasted space when you're not underway. I also like access to water off the stern so anything with a full aft cabin is off the list for me. Teak decks are off my list too.

Point being my choice of boat runs a gauntlet of lifestyle preferences long before seaworthiness enters the equation. Because we've been total sissies about weather (the $250 PredictWind subscription), my wife is talking about more cruising destinations such as western Caribbean.

Final thought I'll leave you is we're on a lazy delivery from Ensenada to Florida. We're stopping along the way and having a good time without a hard schedule. But still, we're moving slong a fairly brisk pace. In 150 days we've been gone, we have 435 engine hours. Even with the brisk pace, we've spent around 12% of our time underway. We've spent 7-8 nights at sea (5%) and that's it. For us, having a pilothouse on a small boat isn't worth the tradeoff. I'm not suggesting anyone else make the same choices, but just saying that the right boat for us has more to do with practical lifestyle choices, not seaworthiness.

Peter

 

[Skippy jack]

Thanks Peter, i will take your advise and start a new thread on boat selection. Hope you continue to follow and comment.

Brian

 

[GrandWood]

The Roughwater 36 is a much, much different boat than the Roughwater 37. R37 is a much better built boat.

There are a ton of boats suitable to cruise the Baja coast. The Willard's are great little boats, but assuming the boat was in decent condition, I'd do the same trip with a GB36/42, a Defever 41, Albin 40, Hershine 37, Bayliner 38, Uniflite 42/Viking 43, Gulfstar 36/42, and the list goes on and on. Spend $250/year for PredidtWind subscription and Starlink and you're off and running. It's not about the boat.

Peter

FYI - attached picture of real time as I write 50 nms off the coast of El Salvador. We waited several days for a nice weather window.

Man that looks so nice, we’re up here in WA right now and chilly cloudy spitting rain through out the day.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Asking because...

I guess I get to be the first person to recommend insurance guru Peter ricks (pau Hana on this forum) at Novamar. Top notch. I’m sure others will agree. Good luck!

Peter Ricks was recommended to me, but my boat was named Pau Hana. We lost the boat in Ian.

 

[Capt Ray]

+1 Peter Ricks at Novamar

 

[traceyeckman1]

I guess I get to be the first person to recommend insurance guru Peter ricks (pau Hana on this forum) at Novamar. Top notch. I’m sure others will agree. Good luck!

How do I get in touch with peter

 

[SeaDogAK]

How do I get in touch with peter

Being super computer savvy, I Googled “Peter Ricks Novamar” and got the following:

Seattle​

---

• Peter Ricks
• Marine Insurance Specialist
• 2100 Westlake Ave N, Suite 103, Seattle, WA 98109
• (800) 823-2798/ (206) 350-5051/ fax(206) 281-8036

 

[jhall767]

As for insurance of a larger boat I suggest you consider getting your captains license. You've got the sea time. That way when they tell you you need a week of training from a licensed captain you can ask them if you can train yourself. Actually happened to a friend of mine.

 

[mvweebles]

How do I get in touch with peter

Let me know how it works out with Peter Ricks. I had read many glowing reviews about him so I tried several times to get in touch with him and received zero response - I tried both phone and email, to him and his admin. I finally gave up thinking that if he wasn't responsive in the sales process, chances of getting help when there's a claim were not great.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

Let me know how it works out with Peter Ricks. I had read many glowing reviews about him so I tried several times to get in touch with him and received zero response - I tried both phone and email, to him and his admin. I finally gave up thinking that if he wasn't responsive in the sales process, chances of getting help when there's a claim were not great.

Peter

I heard he does not work with other Peters.

 

[lwarden]

We have had great service by Douglas K. Smith in San Diego. They also insure a few friends boats in San Diego and have a good reputation. They are a broker but represent Travelers whom we've found to be very competitive in our market.

Beth Chavét-Oberg

President/Agent- Douglas K. Smith Marine Ins. Svcs., Inc.

bchavet@dksmarineinsurance.com

(619) 222-2560 Phone

(619) 222-6716 Fax

 

[rslifkin]

Let me know how it works out with Peter Ricks. I had read many glowing reviews about him so I tried several times to get in touch with him and received zero response - I tried both phone and email, to him and his admin. I finally gave up thinking that if he wasn't responsive in the sales process, chances of getting help when there's a claim were not great.

Peter

I'm surprised you had that much trouble getting in touch with him. I've found he's a little bit hit or miss responding to emails quickly, but a phone call has always gotten good results. Might be worth trying one of his colleagues at Novamar, as there are other agents there (I think one other in the same office as Peter plus others elsewhere). Looks like Peter saw this thread though, so hopefully you'll get something back soon.

 

[mvweebles]

I'm surprised you had that much trouble getting in touch with him. I've found he's a little bit hit or miss responding to emails quickly, but a phone call has always gotten good results. Might be worth trying one of his colleagues at Novamar, as there are other agents there (I think one other in the same office as Peter plus others elsewhere). Looks like Peter saw this thread though, so hopefully you'll get something back soon.

Was back in March. When I first called, his voicemail said he was on vacation and referred calls to another person so I left a message for him on his email and also one for his backup. The following week when he was supposed to have been back in the office, I called again and the vacation-alert voicemail had not been changed so I left another message for both him and the designated delegate but didn't hear back. Something must have fallen through the cracks - happens sometimes. I was a bit surprised given the glowing reviews, and I'm glad to hear the many customers seem to remain happy with his service. But my experience was different and I thought it worthy of sharing given how many times Peter R is referred on this site.

Peter

 

[Pau Hana]

The sad (but honest) truth is that I've had to juggle more balls on the management side of what I do (personnel, business development, claims, meetings (ugh), etc.), than expected and haven't been able to devote as much time as I'd like to the forum. Just some of the growing pains that are part of business.

My love of what I do remains strong, and I look forward to serving TF as best I can going forward.

Peter (weebles) I appreciate your honest assessment and hope to do better by you forthcoming- I apologise for not being more responsive.

 

[mvweebles]

The sad (but honest) truth is that I've had to juggle more balls on the management side of what I do (personnel, business development, claims, meetings (ugh), etc.), than expected and haven't been able to devote as much time as I'd like to the forum. Just some of the growing pains that are part of business.

My love of what I do remains strong, and I look forward to serving TF as best I can going forward.

Peter (weebles) I appreciate your honest assessment and hope to do better by you forthcoming- I apologise for not being more responsive.

Nice note Peter. Says a lot about you.

Peter