Inspecting/reviving 2-year dormant lehman 120 (locked up?)

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You go, Sunbow! I'm in your camp!
You go try to sell that opinion in Havana
 
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Sunbow said:
That is a very first world opinion and you're entitled to it. But if you had ever worked on an old school farm or lived in a third world country you might have a better understanding of how things could be. If you would like to purchase a couple of new engines and have them shipped to me I would be happy to live to your first world standards. But until the fairy godmother grants me those wishes I'm going to press on with the tools, resources and abilities I have
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Having lived and done a zillion repair projects in Mexico (land and boat), I've been in constant battle with the mentality you suggest - where get-by repairs are cobbled, and the toolbox kept handy for the inevitable re-repair. Drives me nuts.

There's a big difference between getting an engine running and fixing it. A lot depends on intended use.

Peter
 
Sunbow said:
That is a very first world opinion and you're entitled to it. But if you had ever worked on an old school farm or lived in a third world country you might have a better understanding of how things could be. If you would like to purchase a couple of new engines and have them shipped to me I would be happy to live to your first world standards. But until the fairy godmother grants me those wishes I'm going to press on with the tools, resources and abilities I have
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I consider myself a fairly seasoned mariner with a decent understanding of diesel
engine mechanics. I can and have disassembled and rebuilt many engines, both
diesel and gasoline. The mechanic in me would not be satisfied with any engine I
knew was not internally as good as the designers had intended it to be. YMMV.

The mariner in me would never be comfortable putting anyone's safety at risk
due to my cutting corners that the mechanic in me knew were there and easily
addressed with an expenditure of time, effort and some money.
Boating is a luxury, not third world survival.

You said you got this boat cheap. This is the proper time to invest that savings in
making this boat better than you found it rather than a ticking time bomb that,
if the mariner in me has learned anything, will announce itself inopportunely.
 
KnotYet said:
I consider myself a fairly seasoned mariner with a decent understanding of diesel
engine mechanics. I can and have disassembled and rebuilt many engines, both
diesel and gasoline. The mechanic in me would not be satisfied with any engine I
knew was not internally as good as the designers had intended it to be. YMMV.

The mariner in me would never be comfortable putting anyone's safety at risk
due to my cutting corners that the mechanic in me knew were there and easily
addressed with an expenditure of time, effort and some money.
Boating is a luxury, not third world survival.

You said you got this boat cheap. This is the proper time to invest that savings in
making this boat better than you found it rather than a ticking time bomb that,
if the mariner in me has learned anything, will announce itself inopportunely.
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Like I said that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but to try and force your opinion and make me feel bad because I'm not going to follow your advice that is not what you were entitled to as far as safety and risk and all that sort of stuff a couple of people in a submarine recently proved that no matter how much money you throw at something you're never 100% safe and secure you can live your life in fear and never leave your home because you're worried about catching a disease or you can go out and live and take some chances do what you want maybe I'm preparing to survive the zombie apocalypse that's coming maybe I'm preparing for a world where we can't get parts maybe I'm just crazy that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it if you don't want to ride on my boat don't ride on my boat I'm sure you wouldn't like it I'm not interested in any more of your opinions as to what I need to do because you think I'm being dangerous or reckless like I said I'm going to move forward with the skills the tools and the resources that I have available to me and I'm going to work within my safe risk levels
 
Many moons ago, I pulled a small block Ford from my car, pressure washed the engine and let it sit for several months. It was locked up tighter than Dick's hat band when we put it back in the car. A wrench on the balancer bolt wouldn't budge it.

At the advice of a shade tree mechanic that my buddy knew, we broke the porcelain off of a spark plug, brazed in a Zerk and installed it in a cylinder that was mid-stroke. Pumped that cylinder full of grease until the engine turned over. Pulled the plug, turned over with the starter until grease was expelled.

Cranked the engine, fogged out the entire neighborhood for 20 minutes, but got it running. It was still running when I sold the car a year later.

Of course, that was a cheap old car and a simple gas engine. And the alternative was a junkyard motor, so why not try it?
 
Sunbow, you can, and apparently will, risk your own safety with half-measures.
That's fine as far as that goes.
But the nature of boating means that your potentially disabled craft will then
create a hazard to others, including the ones sent to bring you and yours back.

That you think an experienced opinion such as my own is somehow forcing you
to do or think anything illustrates a tenuous grasp of the reality of discourse. :rolleyes:

I tend to think the zombies are already here in the form of zombie apocalypse preppers. ;)
 
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You could fill with (solution of your choice), then when you come back pull the drain plug to get the water out, put plug back in when your solution starts coming out.

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted on your findings.

I bought a boat that many here would have highly advised against, and they may have been correct, but boy are we having fun with her.
 
Sunbow said:
I suspect Pistons are stuck in the bore due to condensation causing a little bit of rust where the rings touch the bore.

any thoughts/suggestions and or judgments of my sanity, reasonableness of buying these engines and with the hope to get them back in service by just sending some oil and solvent down the cylinders and trying to loosen up the engines.

Anybody wager a guess as to the percentage chance of success? is this a 10% chance of success or is this a 90% chance of success?
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Cutting your #1 post a bit finds that your initial thought of a little bit of rust was optimistic. Your request of a sanity check —?

Thoughts:
- How far from the current moorage will you cruise?
- At this time can the vessel get insurance due to inoperability?
- Knot Yet knows his stuff, pay heed
 
If he want to sell you the boat, let him fix engine.
 
Oh my goodness, whatever is going on here?

I've got many neighbors who've got Dock Queens and Cocktail Cruisers that I wouldn't be useful for my style of coastal and intracoastal cruising. But, you know what? They are having tons of fun with those boats and enjoying their time on the water, even if the scenery is always familiar.

I've seen boat engines repaired (not rebuilt) after water ingestion. I don't know that I've seen leak down test results, compression test results, or dyno test results or know what the damage was. And don't know that any of them ever got enough hours on them during my observation window to know what it did to their lifetime. But, I do know of cases where the owners got years more life out of the engines, perhaps with a "new normal" of a little more grey or grey-blue smoke, etc. I've also known of unfortunate cases where the repair project got abandoned and the boat got a new engine or never left the slip again.

If it was me, and my engine ingested water and rusted -- out it would go. And, I write that as a person who did replace an engine on my present boat. I just would want it back to guaranteed reliable for my use as quickly as possible and wouldn't want to spend the time fixing it to risk spening more time to replace it.

But, you know what? If I didn't have the money to replace (or rebuild) the engine, or just had other uses, you know what I'd do? I'd fix it as best as I could given what I was willing and able to invest and ask myself how I could enjoy it. I wouldn't fret over what I couldn't do.

If it was a good weekend condo, I'd enjoy it as much as I could and invite friends to do the same.

If it was a good champaign cruiser, I'd enjoy more sunset cruises.

If it was okay to put-put down the ICW at a low throttle setting, I'd become a more familiar face at local anchorages and nearby marinas.

And, when I was done having fun with it? When that use got boring? I'd see if I was able and willing to invest more to fix it more, or I'd sell it to someone looking for a weekend beach condo or who loved sunsets and champaign.

The OP owns the boat now. I wish him all the luck in the world getting it running again. And, I hope he gets it going well enough to enjoy it.

I surely can't guarantee that'll happen. It doesn't always. But, sometimes it does. And, I want it to turn out that way for him.

Good luck!
 
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CharlieO. said:
You could fill with (solution of your choice), then when you come back pull the drain plug to get the water out, put plug back in when your solution starts coming out.

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted on your findings.

I bought a boat that many here would have highly advised against, and they may have been correct, but boy are we having fun with her.
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I'm not aware of the location of the drain plug inside the cylinder bore that would sure make things simple can you explain to me where I'll find that maybe these Ford Lehman diesels are really special...
 
SIBERNUT said:
You go, Sunbow! I'm in your camp!
You go try to sell that opinion in Havana
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Having been to Havana and in awe of the 50's vehicles showroom capable being everyday driven I have to ask you to expand on your comment.
Did you mean they would understand OR? Just curious.
 
Bloody hell. Buy a janky boat if you want to and get it going. Get coverage for unlimited towing from Boat US for peanuts. If your boat breaks down, drop anchor and ring up for a tow. My boat was a Covid victim and had been out of the water for 18 months getting hammered by rain, wind and gulls. I bought it mostly knowingly but with some mysteries and I cruise it. Its the one I wanted. I don't get the sense the OP was expecting to cross oceans. Please let us know what you find and how it goes. I second BMarler on the ATF and Acetone soak. Enjoy the weekend people.
 
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Engine number one has been put to bed after the wet cylinders having been triple flush with 91% isopropyl alcohol and now all six cylinders have been filled with a 50/50 mixture of acetone and ATF I'm in the process of flushing out the remainder of the residue from engine number two which had no obvious water intrusion certainly not hydrolocked or anything like that and filling it with the 50/50 will let it soak overnight putting the heater in the engine room to crank it up as warm as possible just for the hell of it I will put a bar on it and see if they turn in the morning but I'm not expecting anything I'll top off the 50/50 mix in the morning before I leave and then time will tell I'll be back a couple of weeks a month something like that and I'll have more time then to try and break these free or start disassembling the engines I will keep you posted
 
My comment on Havana was that they keep everything running w/o going "new or nothing".
 
Sunbow I have no issue with your plan but as a minimum I would want to pull the heads and do a good visual inside before I would use them assuming you get the engines to rotate.
Good luck!
 
Pete Meisinger said:
Do not worry about the F.L. being stuck, not a big deal. No permanent damage done unless you try to force it with a huge breaker bar.

Remove the injectors and flood every cylinder with a 50/50 mixture of J,B, Blaster and automatic transmission fluid. let it sit for a couple days and then use a modest breaker bar on the front of the engine. If you don't get good results, top off each cylinder with more 50/50 mix and give it a couple more days. When it finally moves, put a rag over each cylinder and rotate until it moves fairly easily.

Then change the oil and replace the injectors and fire it up.

Tell the seller a new engine will cost in the neighborhood of $20,000 and get a solid discount on the selling price

Good Luck, it WILL work.

pete
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I had the same happen to my engines last year, whatever we tried we could not move them at all. Ended up replacing both engines, did cost me around 40.000 euro in total (labor and engines).
 
mvweebles said:
Having lived and done a zillion repair projects in Mexico (land and boat), I've been in constant battle with the mentality you suggest - where get-by repairs are cobbled, and the toolbox kept handy for the inevitable re-repair. Drives me nuts.

There's a big difference between getting an engine running and fixing it. A lot depends on intended use.

Peter
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I agree with you, am also sick and tired of mechanics that do something so that it runs. 1 month later you can do it again, because now something else broke down.
If something breaks down there is a reason for it. You have to find the reason, take that away, repair whatever broke and then you will be OK. Temporary fixes cost a lot of money, I will only do them to get from A to B in an emergency, but otherwise it needs to be done OK
 
There’s no harm in getting them spinning and see what they can do. If they need a rebuild to run then ok, gotta put in new pistons and jugs anyway.
Sometimes it’s amazing what can happen with a few heat cycles.
I don’t put myself in positions like this on purpose, but I don’t fault someone who’s trying to breathe a little life into something that would otherwise rot in the slip.
I’d be careful with a heater in the engine room with all that acetone in there. Provide some ventilation.
 
I agree with Fleming and Pete. Make an offer based on engines needing to be rebuilt or replaced. As long as the res TOC the boat checks out. I suspect more will be needed with a boat sitting for 2 years.

Hope all goes well.
 
Doesn't anyone worry about a heater and acetone? Are you just making a bomb?
 
I had sea water in the number six cylinder in BOTH my engines.

This was about 15 years ago in a 1979 GB 42 with twin FL 120s. Boat was on. mooring in a busy port with large ferries going less than 50 metres away.

It happened to one engine first and as I had it fixed it happened to the other. I suspect sea water was pushed through the exhaust system by the wake of the ferries.

The cylinders heads were removed a the cylinders were pulled out and replaced. All work was done with the engines in place and the boat in the water.
 
I suggest you offer a price as if there no working engines, which is true.
If he balks, walk away. There will always be another boat and the next one might be even better.
I am confused why you are wasting time and money on this boat. IF you do get the engines running, he will obviously want more money and you will still have a boat with questionable engines.
 
sorry to weigh in so late but thought I would read all posts in case I repeated what has been said. this is very interesting to me because I had the same problem but not in 2 motors, only one but there is know reason why it could not be both. I purchased my boat, Argo, sight unseen although a friend looked at it for me in Darwin, Australia, 3,000 kilometers north of where I live, both motors ran well on inspection so i proceed with the purchase. Unfortunately the sump had a large amount of sea water in it and when the motor was run at idle, this was pumped through the motor and in particular, big end and main bearings. The water had run back from a poorly designed (original) exhaust system that had far too much piping above the height of the manifold. When the motor was stopped, the heat of the engine dried out the sea water around the bearings and they grabbed the crankshaft hard as there was no oil there. There was no damage to the bearings or crank but it would not turn over until I released the last main bearing cap. I could have just put the motor back together and I'm sure it would have been fine but decided to put a set of bearings in while it was apart.
Many contributors have comment on the fact that it is number 6 cylinder and that is classic because it is the lowest and water is most likely to be at that end of the manifold and therefore enter number 6.
Whether there is damage to the pots will no doubt be revealed but there was very little in my motor and it ran fine when I put it back together.
the point I wish to make is that the motor can actually be locked up without actually being damaged if you are lucky like I was and it is not implausable for this to have happened to both motors at the same time.

I wonder if you have removed the sump plug to see if there is any water in the bottom of the sumps, it would not necessarily show on the dipstick and if they have been sitting for a long time, would have separated from the oil.
I wish the best and as I am a cook by trade, not a mechanic, I just had to approach my problem as logically and systematically as I could and the biggest thing I had to deal with was the advice that as the boat was 40 years old, why had it only presented as a problematic exhaust now?

Good Luck
 
Way back in post # 23 (4 pages, and a week ago) the OP stated that it was HIS problem now (he bought the boat). And yet, people are still giving him advice on how to go forward with the purchase . . . .

Folks, that ship has SAILED!:nonono:
 
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