How big is too big?

[markpierce]

The shower compartment of my 35-footer is about the size found on cruise ships.

 

[rgano]

Why would you listen to your brother who was happy with a 26-foot snailboat and zero amenities? You are obviously not of a like mind if you are liking a 44 foot GB. I lived aboard my GB 42 alone for a couple of years. I had owned the boat for nine years when that started and never felt I could do with less space. If you are concerned about your own experience level in handling the boat, I would answer that concern by saying that a twin engine GB 42 sans thrusters is one of the handiest boats around - it would not take long to learn to handle it alone.

 

[psneeld]

There are a good number of liveaboards that do snowbird, loop, winter Bahamas run, etc...etc..... can't remotely say what the percentage of cruisers versus condo liveaboards....not sure anyone can.

 

[BandB]

I can't tell you what is too big for you, but I can tell you many could very comfortably handle larger than 42'. Just a few specific comments.

1. Docking does not get more difficult always with size. Design can more than offset. Size and weight can make it easier in many ways.

2. Will you always be alone or often have a friend or relative along to assist a bit?

3. Ask yourself what you'll be willing to pay for. Equipment won't increase all that much. What will is slip size and cost, effort to wash, clean and wax, cost to bottom clean and paint. Some of that is expensive, some not. Just after cruising ten hours arriving and needing to do a wash down and chamois is a lot, but in many place you mention $5 or $10 will get a local person thrilled to do it for you. You might also find a young person who would be thrilled to cruise with you, no experience but wanting minimal pay as just wanting something to do before entering the formal work force.

4. Size also does not automatically equate to seaworthiness or to usable living space. Think carefully how you'd use it. A 45' Princess with a flybridge has more living space than a 60' Nordhavn, but nothing like it in seaworthiness.

 

[LakeMJim]

@jeff

It seems like you are always 2 steps ahead of me.

I was mulling over the idea of a bigger boat and watching the many boats at anchor in the harbour by Kits Beach, and I thought, why not? Spend a week or two there, then slowly move up the coast.

Pretty easy to hop off the boat and go have dinner in town or walk around.

Maybe eventually buy a small condo or house as close to the water as possible, and rent it out short term (monthly) and use it myself from time to time.

TBH I have always had the dream of a really big boat, the explorer type go anywhere vessel, but I never thought about it seriously. I don't think I am ready to make that kind of leap financially yet, but maybe I'll get there one day.

If property prices keep going up here it might look like a bargain.

 

[LakeMJim]

@Rich G

My brother is almost always right so I listen to him, but in this case I think you are correct: He and I have very different needs and desires. He's a boat fanatic, where I am just an admirer. He'd do anything to be around boats as much as possible. He likes the marina life, regattas, all the social events, and I just want to be off on my own exploring.

He has very few material needs and I am prepared to pay a lot more for comfort and convenience.

So yeah, I think he's going to be ignored on this one.

 

[Blissboat]

[A] twin engine GB 42 sans thrusters is one of the handiest boats around - it would not take long to learn to handle it alone.

Agree wholeheartedly about handling the GB 42 - such a satisfying boat. The only boat that I've ever run that I found even more docile yet responsive in close quarters was a 58' Hatteras Yachtfish, with twin 8V-71s (no thruster). It seemed to be the perfect combination of weight, surface area (above and below the waterline) and torque at the shafts. She could just about stand up and dance. Messing with the control for a bow thruster would have been an unnecessary distraction. The doors on either side of the lower station made it easy to step away from the helm and get pre-positioned lines off and on the dock.

The big Hatt had its faults, but handing wasn't among them.

 

[Fish53]

@Fish: Do you liveaboard on a 26 or 30 footer?

@Mako/Lepke: I'm afraid you guys are probably right. Although I have lived in smallish places before, and moved around a lot, I am tired of it.

I just finished building and selling a 4300 sq ft house, but I lived in 900 sq feet of it while I worked on the rest, and it was fine. But it had high ceilings and lots of volume. But 900 sq feet is all I need, I was very happy with that for 4 years.

But 300 or 500 sq ft is a whole other ballgame and realistically I don't know if I could do it.

Things like a small cramped shower would just be annoying I'm sure.

I was just looking online at some North Pacific trawlers, 44 and 45 feet, and MAYBE I could do it, I'd have to see them.

Looking at the layout of the NP45 and the head and shower size, I can pretty much say I 'need' that much space.

As for being alone, chances are I would just go out for a putter around when alone, and if I planned a longer trip I would make sure I had an extra hand or two. I have relatives and friends who would happily go along, and I might even get some gas money out of them. Or at least food and drinks.

So I think my decision will end up being either stay small, 27 feet and forget about liveaboard, or go big 42 or 44 at least.

Of course, I'd still need to actually find a newish, lower maintenance boat that I can afford in the first place, and that isn't easy right now.

Jeez, 4300 sq. ft. is a 10th of an acre, which to me is an obscenity unless you're housing a whole community. I have 107 acres of land with a 144 square foot cabin, solar panels and a hand pump well. My opinion is anything you can comfortably lie down in to sleep is livable. I'm not interested in opulence or impressing others with my luxurious lifestyle what I want is to be on the water. I look at my surroundings not my conveyance or whether anyone else is looking at me. A lot of what's going on here is just di*k waving and serves no other purpose.

 

[FF]

"Can a single person live comfortably on a 30 something foot boat?"

A person can easily ,and have a great lifestyle ,,

the question is how much STUFF do you need to store aboard?

 

[Mako]

I have 107 acres of land with a 144 square foot cabin, solar panels and a hand pump well.
A lot of what's going on here is just di*k waving and serves no other purpose.

You know Fish, it’s great to be proud of yourself, but not so cool to be full of yourself.

 

[LakeMJim]

4300 sq feet

"Jeez, 4300 sq. ft. is a 10th of an acre, which to me is an obscenity unless you're housing a whole community. I have 107 acres of land with a 144 square foot cabin, solar panels and a hand pump well. My opinion is anything you can comfortably lie down in to sleep is livable. I'm not interested in opulence or impressing others with my luxurious lifestyle what I want is to be on the water. I look at my surroundings not my conveyance or whether anyone else is looking at me. A lot of what's going on here is just di*k waving and serves no other purpose."

--------------------

Now the rest of the story.

10 years ago I found a near perfect vacant lot on the most desirable lake in Southern Ontario, and I could afford it. I couldn't believe my luck. It was affordable as it was water access only, and very rich people tend not to like inconvenience. Unless they can own an entire island I guess.

There are properties for sale on the lake priced at $22M, just to give you an idea.

Now all I needed for myself is 900 sq feet, but I am not stupid, well, not often, so I decided I better do justice to the 2.5 acre waterfront lot and build a 'cottage' that would suit the people that came after me.

So while 4300 sq feet is far more than I would ever need or want, and part of the reason I sold is because it was just too daunting keeping up maintenance and trying to finish the build, it was the right thing to build.

The family who bought it with their parents now have 5 children and upwards of 7 adults living there.

The retired parents in their 70's plan to stay year round, as I did, and will hunker down for a few weeks while the lake freezes in winter and thaws in spring.

Now that large family is extremely happy, and I am happy to see the kids enjoying what I built. It's a place that needs kids.

And here I am with enough money to buy a really nice boat, and find somewhere remote to live, away from all the float planes, cigarette boats and jet skis.

But 500 sq feet is too small for me, and 144 feet would affect my mental health, I'm pretty sure.

I admire people who can do it, but it's not for me.

To each his own I say.

(BTW, twice in 20 years I bought the least expensive (usable) property available for sale on that lake. There's my d*ck waving. Pretty proud of that)

 

[LakeMJim]

I'll post a winter view from the place I built once I figure out how to do it. I'm not sure opulence is the word, but it sure was spectacular.

 

[LakeMJim]

too much stuff

"Can a single person live comfortably on a 30 something foot boat?"

A person can easily ,and have a great lifestyle ,,

the question is how much STUFF do you need to store aboard?

--------------------------------------------

Twice in my life I have sold everything I owned and ended up with a few suitcases, and boy what a liberating feeling that is.

But I seem to always accumulate things soon after, and end up with too much stuff. It really is a bad habit.

Right now everything I own is in my car, mostly winter clothes and some tools. I'd like to cut it down even more.

I'm really going to try to keep from buying all the toys for the third time.

Cruising on my friend's sailboat recently, which he has stuffed with everything known to man, I would say that I don't like things disorganized and hard to find, so I think I'd be pretty good at keeping the hoarding to a bare minimum.

I'm getting much better at having just 1 week's worth of clothes.

 

[BandB]

Jeez, 4300 sq. ft. is a 10th of an acre, which to me is an obscenity unless you're housing a whole community. I have 107 acres of land with a 144 square foot cabin, solar panels and a hand pump well. My opinion is anything you can comfortably lie down in to sleep is livable. I'm not interested in opulence or impressing others with my luxurious lifestyle what I want is to be on the water. I look at my surroundings not my conveyance or whether anyone else is looking at me. A lot of what's going on here is just di*k waving and serves no other purpose.

So you think one shouldn't brag about 4300 sq ft but you then brag about 144 sq ft like that makes you better and claim that those with larger only have it to impress people. Perhaps they have more family and friends. Why do you feel compelled to judge and make comments like your last sentence. And who is your post any different as it is just waving something, not on topic.

 

[Tom.B]

A lot of good advice here. I will only say this: Don’t listen to someone that says, “Buy the smallest boat you can stand.” Honestly, with zero boating experience, I would say the opposite because as a live aboard, unless you have downsized this far before, you will be wanting more stuff aboard than you actually need. You can always learn to handle a bigger boat, but once you are committed, you can’t make more space.

 

[BandB]

A lot of good advice here. I will only say this: Don’t listen to someone that says, “Buy the smallest boat you can stand.” Honestly, with zero boating experience, I would say the opposite because as a live aboard, unless you have downsized this far before, you will be wanting more stuff aboard than you actually need. You can always learn to handle a bigger boat, but once you are committed, you can’t make more space.

Wifey B: Large or small, you have to be happy on the boat. You have to fit it to you not to what someone else says you need.

If you're use to a laundromat, then carrying laundry to marinas might be fine, but if you're use to a washer and dryer handy, then you might really need one.

If you've been renting a room in an old lady's house or your parents' house, then a whole boat of any size might be nice. However, if you just lived in a 3000 sq ft house, then the largest boat is going to feel small.

If you're a quick shower dude, who dashes in and out and doesn't linger then water not likely a huge issue, but if you have long hair and day dream and plan your day and maybe play with yourself even in the shower and stay there until you burn through an 80 gallon hot water heater, then water is a huge issue.

If you eat frozen dinners or bring back fast food on the way home from work, then you might not even notice the galley, but if you're a wannabe chef who prepares 7 course meals every night then you'll want every foot of galley possible.

Now I used wide examples but the point is it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[LakeMJim]

As a guy who showers quick and doesn't cook much at all, I think I could manage a liveaboard.

But I don't know yet if I want to. Due to not being able to afford the really large vessel I'd need to be sure to be happy with.

I really need to get on some different boats and try them out. It's just not easy at the moment with so few for sale, and the pandemic complications.

 

[AlaskaProf]

I may be able to help:

I once "lived" on a 31' sailboat for two years, and thought I was enjoying it. But on reflection, much of my s**t was in my car and I was showering in the marina daily. Not really "living aboard". My current 41' trawler serves as my summer home and truly lacks nothing for the comfort and easy living I find in my 2400 sqft home.

HOWEVER: About 70% of the time I am maneuvering the vessel alone. While I am proud of my skills, one look at the gelcoat/paint, particularly on the starboard (docking) side, suggests that this is too much boat to solo.

At 78, I am seriously considering sale. If this were a 30' - 32' powerboat, I think I'd be good for another decade.

 

[Simi 60]

The trick to single-handling is quick/easy access between helm and dock.

What are these dock things you speak of?
Haven't been on one in 5 years and in a big enough boat with a proper tender and anchoring gear, living aboard without one is a non issue.

We arrived back in the land of the dirt people today after 3+ months out the reef and islands without stepping on the mainland once and very limited interaction with people in that time
Big enough vessel is damn near its own country, very handy in these covid times. (-;

 

[Simi 60]

Honestly, with zero boating experience, I would say the opposite because as a live aboard, unless you have downsized this far before, you will be wanting more stuff aboard than you actually need. .

But you don't know you don't need it until you do.
We have the old walk in cold room on ours full of shelves of what I thought was shite.
That shite has allowed us to MacGyver a solution and stay out indefinitely on several occasions over the years
A smaller boat simply would mot have the space for it so would have been forced ashore.

You can always learn to handle a bigger boat, but once you are committed, you can’t make more space

Wise words indeed
Here endeth the lesson

 

[Simi 60]

Jeez, 4300 sq. ft. is a 10th of an acre, which to me is an obscenity unless you're housing a whole community. I have 107 acres of land with a 144 square foot cabin, solar panels and a hand pump well. My opinion is anything you can comfortably lie down in to sleep is livable. I'm not interested in opulence or impressing others with my luxurious lifestyle what I want is to be on the water. I look at my surroundings not my conveyance or whether anyone else is looking at me. A lot of what's going on here is just di*k waving and serves no other purpose.

Come on mate, looking at your avatar surely when it relates to boats you understand bigger is better, as long as you can manage it, if wanting to actually stay "out"
Yeah, if living in a marina and going nowhere, the space that a 20ft caravan provides would possibly suffice.

 

[LakeMJim]

your own country

What are these dock things you speak of?
Haven't been on one in 5 years and in a big enough boat with a proper tender and anchoring gear, living aboard without one is a non issue.

We arrived back in the land of the dirt people today after 3+ months out the reef and islands without stepping on the mainland once and very limited interaction with people in that time
Big enough vessel is damn near its own country, very handy in these covid times. (-;

----------------------------------------

That does sound good!

 

[FF]

Traveling marinas can be avoided for living ,only used for fuel, water and garbage.

As a liveaboard some folks have held down std. jobs by renting slip space for an all weather dink, like a Whaler and coming in when its not crowded for water and pump outs. Marina is used for mail service UPS delivery and car parking.

 

[LakeMJim]

The only thing I can see marinas being really convenient for is shore power. But that's a big one isn't it?

I need to get up to speed on how you manage to stay off grid for long periods of time.

 

[Peter B]

--------------------------------------------

Twice in my life I have sold everything I owned and ended up with a few suitcases, and boy what a liberating feeling that is.

But I seem to always accumulate things soon after, and end up with too much stuff. It really is a bad habit.

Right now everything I own is in my car, mostly winter clothes and some tools. I'd like to cut it down even more.

The only thing I can see marinas being really convenient for is shore power. But that's a big one isn't it?
I need to get up to speed on how you manage to stay off grid for long periods of time.

Jim, it sounds to me that you are now ideally placed to live aboard. You've done the downsize, divested yourself of a lot of dross, but if you stay land-based much longer, as you said...you'll just start accumulating again.

If you get a boat about 40 foot, (heaps big enough for a chap to live on), and move aboard, you'll have a ball, and also a strong disincentive to start accumulating dross again. Everything you buy you'll ask yourself - do I really need this - then if so, where will it go..?

 

[Nomad Willy]

34-35’ in normally proportioned boats.

But from here on .. 20’ unless unusually light.

 

[LakeMJim]

Pete: Yes now is the perfect time for me to do it. It's just that I had written off the idea from the beginning. So now I am coming around to it.

I keep reading about people buying much bigger, older vessels for $60,000, and it has me thinking. As someone who has had old cars and old houses I know the repairs can be enormous, but those numbers are still so far below what I was thinking I would need to pay I really am considering other options.

And I desperately need a project of some sort. Property prices where I am (Vancouver area) are so incredibly high, a phenomenon I am sure you are familiar with, that it makes alternatives really attractive.

High season will end here soon and I imagine a lot more options will open up in terms of boats for sale and mooring opportunities.

 

[BandB]

The only thing I can see marinas being really convenient for is shore power. But that's a big one isn't it?

I need to get up to speed on how you manage to stay off grid for long periods of time.

Wifey B: Really convenient for sightseeing.

 

[MichaelB1969]

I had a 44' Beneteau Swift Trawler. Had a great setup with the door next to the helm, and the door in the hull (I'm sure there is a better name for it) next to that. So I could very easily get from the helm to the dock in essentially two steps. Made it very, very easy to single hand. So to the comments others have made, the boat layout really plays a big role in how easy it is to handle.

I personally wouldn't consider living aboard a boat that was smaller than 40 feet. I would feel too cramped. So I would want large 40' boat with a great interior layout at minimum. More ideal for me would be 50', as that would start to feel more spacious. Everyone is different, but that's my take.

 

[Juggerknot]

I had originally completely written off the idea of buying a trawler big enough to liveaboard.

Not that I don't like the idea, I do, it's the kind of thing I have done all my life (with zero experience building my own place on an island, where winter access was limited, moving to Argentina, then Peru, then Colombia, spending 4 straight years travelling the world etc.)

My ONLY concern was feeling cramped, and I suppose the cost of a new boat or the maintenance on an old boat.

Now as I look around BC and see the crazy property prices, especially for the waterfront I really want, a liveaboard is starting to look more and more attractive.

Of course I would, like anyone, love to have a brand new Grand Banks 44 or a Kadey Krogen or something similar. Or one of the bigger tugs.

But I can't afford that. Or well, I could, but I'd have to go back to work to make sure I had money for fuel.

But a slightly used 42 footer is financially possible for me ($400k to max $600k) while still leaving me a nice retirement fund. I'm a former financial guy so I've done the numbers, very conservatively.

When I ran the idea past my very experienced sailor brother, he said 42 is too big for a guy like me. Alone and inexperienced.

He said I'd rarely leave the marina, as it would be too difficult for me to anchor and dock, even with the fantastic modern bow and stern thrusters.

He suggested 32 to 36 ft would be plenty. (He himself lived aboard a 26 foot sailboat for several years, in Canada, with ice and bubblers and no hot water on board)

I suspect he is right, he usually is. If I was struggling to manage the boat, I'd probably not take it out much.

Thoughts? Can a single person live comfortably on a 30 something foot boat?

The other benefit than easier handling I see is that I could probably afford a brand new 34 or 36 footer.

I'd be in the PNW. I am absolutely not a tropical climate person. I head South for some vacations, but I stay clear of beach resorts when I do. I would probably spend 3 months each winter off the boat, travelling.

I recommend you go to a boat show or two and take a good hard look at what you like and what size you think you can live with. 32 feet can get small pretty quick even for a single guy so choose carefully. Sounds like your brother is either a lunatic or a masochist, winters on a 26 footer with no hot water, real caveman living there! Regardless, get out and start putting boots on the ground, look at boats and try to visualize yourself living in that space. Bow and stern thrusters plus a well laid out helm with good deck access go a long way in single handing a 40+ footer. My 2 cents but I have done a 32' alone and after 8 months I had to upsize...