High bilge alarm! & Whale fresh water connectors

[slowgoesit]

Your boat, but that is simply not true.

Whale components are not unlike any other plumbing part. You need at least one 90, and a tee, a end cap, and a threaded fitting as spares. Total cost maybe $25-30 USD.

Re-plumbing your boat will take a month of sundays and hundreds of dollars in parts. My guess is over a thousand dollars in parts before the job is done.

I do not know about you but I have a infinite l;ist of things I would like to do on my boat, and a finite amount of time in which to do them. Replacing a perfectly good plumbing system is not even on the list.

After what I posted earlier, if you have Whale fittings in your system and like them, the fittings are available and are only $5 or so. You can get them at your West Marine and also in the PNW at Fisheries Supply. So for maybe $50 you can have a handful of spare fittings and a length of tube that'd patch most of what could fail.
Also Whale fittings and tube are metric, things like Sharkbite and pex tubing aren't, they don't mix.

If you guys can steer me toward these $5.00 whale fittings, I'd be much obliged! The fitting that failed is:

https://www.amazon.com/Whale-WX1513...t=&hvlocphy=1027519&hvtargid=pla-881225204783

$21.32 off of Amazon

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/whal...-npt-male-to-15mm-brass--10724565?recordNum=6

or $32.99 from West Marine.
I'd love to find the source for necessary spares for $25-30 USD! Because from my looking, I've pretty much already blown that budget on 1 fitting . . . .

 

[rslifkin]

If you guys can steer me toward these $5.00 whale fittings, I'd be much obliged! The fitting that failed is:

https://www.amazon.com/Whale-WX1513...t=&hvlocphy=1027519&hvtargid=pla-881225204783

$21.32 off of Amazon

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/whal...-npt-male-to-15mm-brass--10724565?recordNum=6

or $32.99 from West Marine.
I'd love to find the source for necessary spares for $25-30 USD! Because from my looking, I've pretty much already blown that budget on 1 fitting . . . .

Best price I can find on that fitting is at Defender. $15.99, or $14.22 if you've got their membership. https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2243574|2243585|2243592&id=826047


Some of their other fittings are similarly expensive, but others are significantly cheaper (so total cost for a spares collection will depend on what you need).

 

[OldDan1943]

Some of their other fittings are similarly expensive, but others are significantly cheaper (so total cost for a spares collection will depend on what you need).

There you go again. Using the word 'budget' while taking about boats. Will you never learn?

 

[backinblue]

Best price I can find on that fitting is at Defender. $15.99, or $14.22 if you've got their membership. https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2243574|2243585|2243592&id=826047


Some of their other fittings are similarly expensive, but others are significantly cheaper (so total cost for a spares collection will depend on what you need).

There is no "cheap" in boating. Just "expensive" and "outrageous".

 

[sean9c]

Pretty funny. You picked about the most expensive Whale fitting that you can find. A Whale tube to pipe thread adapter that is a pretty darn massive piece of brass. OK, you win.

If you guys can steer me toward these $5.00 whale fittings, I'd be much obliged! The fitting that failed is:

https://www.amazon.com/Whale-WX1513...t=&hvlocphy=1027519&hvtargid=pla-881225204783

$21.32 off of Amazon

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/whal...-npt-male-to-15mm-brass--10724565?recordNum=6

or $32.99 from West Marine.
I'd love to find the source for necessary spares for $25-30 USD! Because from my looking, I've pretty much already blown that budget on 1 fitting . . . .

 

[slowgoesit]

Best price I can find on that fitting is at Defender. $15.99, or $14.22 if you've got their membership. https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2243574|2243585|2243592&id=826047


Some of their other fittings are similarly expensive, but others are significantly cheaper (so total cost for a spares collection will depend on what youaend).

Thanks so much! I didn't find that listing for the part.

Pretty funny. You picked about the most expensive Whale fitting that you can find. A Whale tube to pipe thread adapter that is a pretty darn massive piece of brass. OK, you win.

Well, it happened to be the one that failed. Believe me, I would have preferred that it had been a $5.00 Whale part that failed, or even better, that the part had not failed in the first place!

 

[Bacchus]

Thanks so much! I didn't find that listing for the part.







Well, it happened to be the one that failed. Believe me, I would have preferred that it had been a $5.00 Whale part that failed, or even better, that the part had not failed in the first place!

Scot
Ironically or coincidently I had a water leak this spring that I found was at a similar fitting from FW tank.
What I found was the tube was not fully seated and was in fact not cut perfectly square. Those brass ftgs seem to be a tighter fit and take more for e to seat the tube properly. No idea if that could have contributed to your problem but worth checking anytime a tube ftg leaks.
I opted to replace the fitting and tubing being careful with the cut. It wasn't a convenient place to work (never is) and I didn't want to risk reusing the ftg and having to do it a third time..
Being threaded brass and an adapter they are the highest $ but you shouldn't need many in the system.

 

[OldDan1943]

Brass is bad in California.

 

[angus99]

this thread reminded me the need for a bilge water alert.
Any recommendation based on experience.
many choices and prices available
thank you for your help

I use a moisture sensor sitting in the bilge tied to a SmartThings hub that texts me wherever I am—asleep in the aft berth or at home—if it activates. Our bilge is bone dry normally but, after working in the ER, I’ve had water pool someplace that finds its way to the bilge where it cannot evade the moisture sensor. It literally takes one drop of moisture to trigger a text. I have numerous other devices—heater and light switches, TV, Sonos sound system, smoke alarms, motion detector, etc—tied to the SmartThings hub, all at a fraction of the cost of a boat-$pecific $ystem. We also have high water alarms that don’t rely on a WiFi connection and Ultra switches on the larger bilge pumps that trigger alarms audible on-board.

 

[twistedtree]

The T&P valve on the water heater is only meant to relieve a dangerous overpressure. If it ever opens in normal use, the system is poorly designed. Plus, any water it dumps is wasted. And yes, as the water heater cools, an occasional pump cycle is normal (if no water has been used in a while and the system pressure hasn't been topped up before dropping enough to turn the pump on).

What he said

 

[w8n4sun]

I use a moisture sensor sitting in the bilge tied to a SmartThings hub that texts me wherever I am—asleep in the aft berth or at home—if it activates. Our bilge is bone dry normally but, after working in the ER, I’ve had water pool someplace that finds its way to the bilge where it cannot evade the moisture sensor. It literally takes one drop of moisture to trigger a text. I have numerous other devices—heater and light switches, TV, Sonos sound system, smoke alarms, motion detector, etc—tied to the SmartThings hub, all at a fraction of the cost of a boat-$pecific $ystem. We also have high water alarms that don’t rely on a WiFi connection and Ultra switches on the larger bilge pumps that trigger alarms audible on-board.

I'd love to know more details how your system is set up? Can you post set up and devices? Thanks

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Paranoia and knowing myself have kept me from using marina water and this discussion reinforces that choice. That said, it would be nice to have more shower pressure than my freshwater pump can produce. Do you guys see a big difference between connected and disconnected water flow and pressure at points like shower heads?

 

[rslifkin]

Paranoia and knowing myself have kept me from using marina water and this discussion reinforces that choice. That said, it would be nice to have more shower pressure than my freshwater pump can produce. Do you guys see a big difference between connected and disconnected water flow and pressure at points like shower heads?

It all depends on how much pressure your pump puts out, what the pressure regulator on the shore water input is set for, and the shower head in question.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I guess I realize that. Always lots of variables. A pressure gauge somewhere in the pressurized side of the freshwater system would make sense.

 

[ksanders]

I use a moisture sensor sitting in the bilge tied to a SmartThings hub that texts me wherever I am—asleep in the aft berth or at home—if it activates. Our bilge is bone dry normally but, after working in the ER, I’ve had water pool someplace that finds its way to the bilge where it cannot evade the moisture sensor. It literally takes one drop of moisture to trigger a text. I have numerous other devices—heater and light switches, TV, Sonos sound system, smoke alarms, motion detector, etc—tied to the SmartThings hub, all at a fraction of the cost of a boat-$pecific $ystem. We also have high water alarms that don’t rely on a WiFi connection and Ultra switches on the larger bilge pumps that trigger alarms audible on-board.

I REALLY like smartthings!

 

[slowgoesit]

Scot
Ironically or coincidently I had a water leak this spring that I found was at a similar fitting from FW tank.
What I found was the tube was not fully seated and was in fact not cut perfectly square. Those brass ftgs seem to be a tighter fit and take more for e to seat the tube properly. No idea if that could have contributed to your problem but worth checking anytime a tube ftg leaks.
I opted to replace the fitting and tubing being careful with the cut. It wasn't a convenient place to work (never is) and I didn't want to risk reusing the ftg and having to do it a third time..
Being threaded brass and an adapter they are the highest $ but you shouldn't need many in the system.

The fitting apparently failed internally. The O-ring is still present inside the fitting, as is the circular black collar around the water pipe. But comparing the fitting to a new fitting, the outside collar apparently broke in half, with the inside portion, which "contains" the 0-ring having broken off, and being nowhere to be found. Probably in the bilge. I'm still up in the air on replacing the entire system. It's way down the list of items to do on our new to us boat. Just replaced all the bilge pump hoses, installed a fan in the forward head, etc. Lots to do.

 

[slowgoesit]

That said, it would be nice to have more shower pressure than my freshwater pump can produce. Do you guys see a big difference between connected and disconnected water flow and pressure at points like shower heads?

I think your issue may have more to do with small diameter water lines, or restrictions somewhere in the system. I say this, because our fresh water pump and associated plumbing provides more water at the shower head than we need. resulting in us choking the flow down some with the shower head in order to not use as much water. You may also want to check and see if you have an accumulator in the system as well, as that can help to smooth out variations in pump pressure.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I think your issue may have more to do with small diameter water lines, or restrictions somewhere in the system. I say this, because our fresh water pump and associated plumbing provides more water at the shower head than we need. resulting in us choking the flow down some with the shower head in order to not use as much water. You may also want to check and see if you have an accumulator in the system as well, as that can help to smooth out variations in pump pressure.

Roger that. Thanks Slow.

 

[Muirgen Afloat]

I know it sounds cheap; it was. I made my own bilge alarm with a float switch and a junkyard automotive car horn. I have less than thirty dollars in it. It saved us 2 years ago when I forgot to turn off the shore water. I won't forget again.

I love this. Really freaks me a little bit that the alarms are so quiet. Even the anchor alarm is difficult to hear from the pilot house. I swear this boat just eats sound...

 

[angus99]

I'd love to know more details how your system is set up? Can you post set up and devices? Thanks

In a nutshell, I have a latest gen SmartThings hub running off the boat’s WiFi network powered by a Pepwave Max Duo router. If you’re familiar with ST, it accommodates Z-Wave or Zigbee devices and there are hundreds available for almost anything you want to do. The devices I connected include:

—A SmartThings moisture sensor I described earlier (pictured)
—Smart plugs from various venders for operating heaters, lights etc
—An Aeotec temperature/motion/light sensor
—An Ecolink audio detector that reports a smoke alarm activating

Configuring and running the system is drop-dead easy and, once set up, it’s been thoroughly reliable. SmartThings used to market its own line of devices, but now seems to be limited to running the network and farming devices out to other developers. We operate things remotely via iPhones or iPads using the smart things app.

Hope that helps.

 

[angus99]

Oops, here’s the moisture sensor sitting in the bilge.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Great stuff, Angus. I use Apple HomeKit at home and it's somewhere between unreliable and terrible; far too untrustworthy for boat use or anything beyond turning Christmas lights on and off. If you use iPhones, did you look at HomeKit before going with SmartThings, and how do they compare?

 

[angus99]

Great stuff, Angus. I use Apple HomeKit at home and it's somewhere between unreliable and terrible; far too untrustworthy for boat use or anything beyond turning Christmas lights on and off. If you use iPhones, did you look at HomeKit before going with SmartThings, and how do they compare?

Thanks for the kind words. I’m not sure when HomeKit came out but normally, as Apple users, I give most of their products a serious look when adding tech. In this case, I’ve been using SmartThings for a few years now, am happy with it and just haven’t seen a reason to try anything else.

 

[w8n4sun]

Very helpful, Angus. Thanks for sharing.

 

[angus99]

Very helpful, Angus. Thanks for sharing.

ksanders is another big ST fan and has both more devices hooked up and tech-savviness than I do.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

...as Apple users, I give most of their products a serious look when adding tech.

I do too, and generally have outstanding results. HomeKit is an exception. It is finicky and intolerant to upgrades anywhere along the network. When it works, it works, but when it stops, figuring out why is a real challenge. The technology world is one of continual updates and upgrades, but Apple hasn't figured out how to make this one work reliably through that process. Just a heads up.

 

[ksanders]

ksanders is another big ST fan and has both more devices hooked up and tech-savviness than I do.

I'm a huge Smartthings fan but don't know any more about it than anyone else.

I just try sensors and see how they work.

for bilge water I like the Ecolink remote moisture sensors. They are a bit more challenging to install but that also allows a bulkhead mount.

I thought you did great with the audio sensors to detect the sound of a smoke alarm going off. That was ingenious, and saved you having to buy all new Zwave smoke alarms.

I use the First Alert Zwave smoke alarms and they have proven to be very reliable for a few years now.

Regarding Apple homekit. My kid poo poo'd my going to smartthings, and he went with the Apple Home Kit. It flat didn't work and he has given up, while smartthings just keeps getting better.

Here is a live screen shot. As you can see it's super duper cold in Seward Alaska right now and my furnaces are working, plus I have supplemental electric heat going just to keep the boat above freezing. This is as cold of a winter as I've ever seen in Alaska!

 

[angus99]

I'm a huge Smartthings fan but don't know any more about it than anyone else.

I just try sensors and see how they work.

for bilge water I like the Ecolink remote moisture sensors. They are a bit more challenging to install but that also allows a bulkhead mount.

I thought you did great with the audio sensors to detect the sound of a smoke alarm going off. That was ingenious, and saved you having to buy all new Zwave smoke alarms.

I use the First Alert Zwave smoke alarms and they have proven to be very reliable for a few years now.

Regarding Apple homekit. My kid poo poo'd my going to smartthings, and he went with the Apple Home Kit. It flat didn't work and he has given up, while smartthings just keeps getting better.

Here is a live screen shot. As you can see it's super duper cold in Seward Alaska right now and my furnaces are working, plus I have supplemental electric heat going just to keep the boat above freezing. This is as cold of a winter as I've ever seen in Alaska!

Thanks, Kevin. You qualify as an ST power user! Can you tell me what sensors you’re using for battery voltage, shore power and inverter voltage?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Slick! What does SmartThings need for a "server?" I see the connected devices and I see the app client that provides the interface, but what turns those devices on and off when the device is not inside the local network?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

So SmartThings runs on a dedicated $300 hub as opposed to an iPad or AppleTV that you may or may not already have. This is a classic example of getting what you pay for. That hub translates to reliability. Interesting.