Great Loop boat advice

[AlexLbk]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to this forum and looking for some advice on the boat to pick for great loop and subsequent trips up and down ICW and down to the Caribbean. While I worked full time I owned cruisers; I semi retired a couple years ago and bought a Bavaria E40. We sailed her from Miami all the way to Great Lakes in the past 3 years. Unfortunately I lost her to a marina fire a couple of months ago and now looking for a replacement. E40 was great in terms of creature comforts (3 cabins, 2 heads, 4 fridges, etc.). She also had a real engine room - not a hatch. She did have a few issues:
1. She was underpowered with a 300HP motor and small stern thruster. Getting her in and out of the slip was always a pain.

2. All the weight was midships, so she turned on the axis - again control was an issue.
3. Access in and off the boat was a pain. Either a ladder off the side (impossible to use while docking), or a small collapsible swimming platform, then shallow steps molded into the transom. Not the safest way to get on and off the boat - I have fallen off of it once, but I'm only 50.
4. There was no space to put the dinghy and bike storage was a disaster - took 20 minutes for 2 men to retrieve a bike from the forward hold.
I have come up with a requirement list for a replacement and wanted to see if you guys have any feedback or suggestions.
Required:

1. Easy access: both swimming platform and a side door off the cockpit so I'm able to step on the dock directly from the helm.
2. Ability to easily store and deploy bikes and a dinghy - preferably from the fly bridge.
3. Fuel efficient at displacement speed, but can go faster then displacement (say up to 20knots) if needed.
4. Flybridge with dual helms.
5. Air draft not to exceed 19 feet - preferably 15 feet

Desired:
1. 2 heads
2. Single screw
3. Modern look
4. US engine (didn't like Volvo support framework in the US)


Based on my research I came up with a few boats that might fit the bill but have concerns with all of them:
1. Beneteau Swift Trawler 34 (possibly too small for a couple with occasional guests, 1 fridge, a single wet head, engine room access in the cabin)
2. Beneteau Swift Trawler 44 (Volvo engines, engine room access in the cabin)
3. Greenline 45 (Volvo engines, unknown quality of the boat, dinghy on the swimming platform, fuel consumption)


I'm sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share as much info as possible to hopefully solicit good feedback.
Thanks in advance.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

 

[PM]

Welcome Aboard!

As you already, no doubt know, All boat decisions are a compromise. You might consider a slightly older Hattaras or Chris Craft. Some of these older boats have undergone complete rebuilds and restoration. One of them might check your boxes.

pete

 

[psneeld]

First.... three things you have to sort out.

1. A loop boat can be a shallow water, gunkholers that can fit in any water, any marina .... is simple to operate and maintain..... it is a question of what luxuries you desire and that will determine whether a boat suited for back creeks and wildlife viewing is desired or whether a royal yacht that cruises from city to city and resort marinas . Not to say staying in a city, resort marina and visiting the wilderness in a great dingy isn't out of the question.

2. A boat that is loop desired and can cruise the Bahamas is another category. Longer passages in open water are not that many and can be done with almost any boat so again livability is probably the most important.

3. Extending to the Caribbean beyond the Bahamas can also be done with many loop boats, but most recommend a boat that is equipped with stabilizers and plenty to room for supplies/spares and a bit more for extended self sufficiency.

Some find boats they are happy with that fit #1 and #2.... but #3 is a bit trickier. Some go for it and are happy, some not so much. But after a loop, several trips of the ACIW and visits to the Bahamas....and they are ready for further adventures...they go for a different vessel.

 

[Gdavid]

Are you considering both new and used boats? With regards to the Swift Trawler 44, my dock neighbor has Swift Trawler 42 with cummins engines which was an uncommon option but it was original equipment and you might be able to find one. He loves his, it is not on the market.

 

[AlexLbk]

Are you considering both new and used boats? With regards to the Swift Trawler 44, my dock neighbor has Swift Trawler 42 with cummins engines which was an uncommon option but it was original equipment and you might be able to find one. He loves his, it is not on the market.

I'm considering used only.

 

[AlexLbk]

First.... three things you have to sort out.

1. A loop boat can be a shallow water, gunkholers that can fit in any water, any marina .... is simple to operate and maintain..... it is a question of what luxuries you desire and that will determine whether a boat suited for back creeks and wildlife viewing is desired or whether a royal yacht that cruises from city to city and resort marinas . Not to say staying in a city, resort marina and visiting the wilderness in a great dingy isn't out of the question.

2. A boat that is loop desired and can cruise the Bahamas is another category. Longer passages in open water are not that many and can be done with almost any boat so again livability is probably the most important.

3. Extending to the Caribbean beyond the Bahamas can also be done with many loop boats, but most recommend a boat that is equipped with stabilizers and plenty to room for supplies/spares and a bit more for extended self sufficiency.

Some find boats they are happy with that fit #1 and #2.... but #3 is a bit trickier. Some go for it and are happy, some not so much. But after a loop, several trips of the ACIW and visits to the Bahamas....and they are ready for further adventures...they go for a different vessel.

Not a lot of interest in back creeks, but if I were to get an urge - dinghy ride is perfectly fine.

Good point on #3.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard.

 

[ranger58sb]

A wet head would be a showstopper for us.

Our list of requirements was much longer. Stairs to flybridge. Transom door. Walk-around (not leap around, or crawl partially around) queen master. Aft-located helm on flybridge. Yaddy yaddy yada.

-Chris

 

[MacPhid]

Ranger, why an aft helm on the flybridge?

 

[Gdavid]

Ranger, why an aft helm on the flybridge?

Provides visibility of the transom, critical for sporfishing but also very handy for docking.

 

[High Wire]

Welcome aboard!
Any $$$ / size limits?

 

[AlexLbk]

Welcome aboard!
Any $$$ / size limits?

Yes, definitely. I’d say no more than 500k for the right boat. Another non negotiable requirement so no banks, loans, etc. extremely allergic to those.

 

[High Wire]

A big single capable of 20 kts with a FB is a tough cookie to find. A Nordic or American tug won’t have the accommodations you seek. Plus “modern look” well is debatable.

 

[AlexLbk]

A big single capable of 20 kts with a FB is a tough cookie to find. A Nordic or American tug won’t have the accommodations you seek. Plus “modern look” well is debatable.

Modern look is definitely a very subjective measure. I liked how my e40 looked. I love how greenline looks. I can tolerate swift trawler, but I can’t say I love it. American tug will be tough to swallow. Again this is very subjective.

 

[twistedtree]

A Grand Banks Europa would fit your needs. We took one to all the areas you mention except the Caribbean. But my guess is that the styling is too old-school for your taste.


As you get into the upper 40' range I think you start to get a direct conflict between air draft and a fly bridge. There are solutions, but it becomes harder. If you forego the flybridge, then Saber and Back Cover would be high on my list, provided it's a model with straight shaft drive, not a pod drive.


I get the appeal of a more modern interior. I've only been on a couple, but on all of them I thought everything was incredibly cheap and flimsy. It felt like a cheap camper trailer. But it's a small sample size, and all that matters in the end is that you like it.


Also give some thought to your speed requirement. To me, there are two types of boating; hub and spoke, and point to point.


In hub and spoke cruising, you depart your home location, go off somewhere for a while, then return home. This is typical for people who are still working and have limited windows of time to cruise. In this case, speed really matters because it can significantly expand you cruising grounds. This is what I did my whole life until I retired and decided to try longer distance cruising



In point to point cruising, each day you depart your current location and move to the next location, then the next, then the next. This is how you do long distance cruising, and it's as much about the journey as it is the destinations. Your Great Loop trip will be like this, and I think this type of cruising is more typical once retired. When we switched to cruising long distance, traveling point to point, we pretty much completely lost interest is going fast. There was little need to get somewhere fast, and being underway on a level boat rather than bow in the air, and quieter purr of engines rather than a roar, all made for a much more pleasant underway experience. Instead of "everyone hold on, here we go", we could all just go about or business over course of the day.


Again, you will need to decide what you want, but our first long cruise was a big learning experience for us in this respect, and ever since we have had slower boats.

 

[ranger58sb]

Ranger, why an aft helm on the flybridge?

Provides visibility of the transom, critical for sporfishing but also very handy for docking.

Yep. Especially the docking part, stern-to.

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

In point to point cruising, each day you depart your current location and move to the next location, then the next, then the next. This is how you do long distance cruising, and it's as much about the journey as it is the destinations. Your Great Loop trip will be like this, and I think this type of cruising is more typical once retired. When we switched to cruising long distance, traveling point to point, we pretty much completely lost interest is going fast. There was little need to get somewhere fast, .

Thanks for this. For years, I've tried to describe with simple shorthand of "we just like life at jogging speed."

Peter

 

[AlexLbk]

A Grand Banks Europa would fit your needs. We took one to all the areas you mention except the Caribbean. But my guess is that the styling is too old-school for your taste.


As you get into the upper 40' range I think you start to get a direct conflict between air draft and a fly bridge. There are solutions, but it becomes harder. If you forego the flybridge, then Saber and Back Cover would be high on my list, provided it's a model with straight shaft drive, not a pod drive.


I get the appeal of a more modern interior. I've only been on a couple, but on all of them I thought everything was incredibly cheap and flimsy. It felt like a cheap camper trailer. But it's a small sample size, and all that matters in the end is that you like it.


Also give some thought to your speed requirement. To me, there are two types of boating; hub and spoke, and point to point.


In hub and spoke cruising, you depart your home location, go off somewhere for a while, then return home. This is typical for people who are still working and have limited windows of time to cruise. In this case, speed really matters because it can significantly expand you cruising grounds. This is what I did my whole life until I retired and decided to try longer distance cruising



In point to point cruising, each day you depart your current location and move to the next location, then the next, then the next. This is how you do long distance cruising, and it's as much about the journey as it is the destinations. Your Great Loop trip will be like this, and I think this type of cruising is more typical once retired. When we switched to cruising long distance, traveling point to point, we pretty much completely lost interest is going fast. There was little need to get somewhere fast, and being underway on a level boat rather than bow in the air, and quieter purr of engines rather than a roar, all made for a much more pleasant underway experience. Instead of "everyone hold on, here we go", we could all just go about or business over course of the day.


Again, you will need to decide what you want, but our first long cruise was a big learning experience for us in this respect, and ever since we have had slower boats.

Thank you for the feedback - you are correct, grandbanks is a little too old fashioned for me. I also agree that modern European boats use a lot of plastic looking interiors and compared to solid cherry they do look cheap. However they seem to do ok - my e40 interior did very well and while I didn’t have her for long we did put over 2000 nm on her in 3 seasons; great loop was the next step. I definitely want point to point cruising. The little amount of work I still do, I can do on the boat. Mine was fully networked, even had a small server farm aboard; too bad it’s all gone.
I also agree with your speed point. If I want speed, I’ll get into my car and be going 60 in under 3 seconds, but now I don’t even do that anymore… getting old I guess.

 

[Jdornick]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to this forum and looking for some advice on the boat to pick for great loop and subsequent trips up and down ICW and down to the Caribbean. While I worked full time I owned cruisers; I semi retired a couple years ago and bought a Bavaria E40. We sailed her from Miami all the way to Great Lakes in the past 3 years. Unfortunately I lost her to a marina fire a couple of months ago and now looking for a replacement. E40 was great in terms of creature comforts (3 cabins, 2 heads, 4 fridges, etc.). She also had a real engine room - not a hatch. She did have a few issues:
1. She was underpowered with a 300HP motor and small stern thruster. Getting her in and out of the slip was always a pain.

2. All the weight was midships, so she turned on the axis - again control was an issue.
3. Access in and off the boat was a pain. Either a ladder off the side (impossible to use while docking), or a small collapsible swimming platform, then shallow steps molded into the transom. Not the safest way to get on and off the boat - I have fallen off of it once, but I'm only 50.
4. There was no space to put the dinghy and bike storage was a disaster - took 20 minutes for 2 men to retrieve a bike from the forward hold.
I have come up with a requirement list for a replacement and wanted to see if you guys have any feedback or suggestions.
Required:

1. Easy access: both swimming platform and a side door off the cockpit so I'm able to step on the dock directly from the helm.
2. Ability to easily store and deploy bikes and a dinghy - preferably from the fly bridge.
3. Fuel efficient at displacement speed, but can go faster then displacement (say up to 20knots) if needed.
4. Flybridge with dual helms.
5. Air draft not to exceed 19 feet - preferably 15 feet

Desired:
1. 2 heads
2. Single screw
3. Modern look
4. US engine (didn't like Volvo support framework in the US)


Based on my research I came up with a few boats that might fit the bill but have concerns with all of them:
1. Beneteau Swift Trawler 34 (possibly too small for a couple with occasional guests, 1 fridge, a single wet head, engine room access in the cabin)
2. Beneteau Swift Trawler 44 (Volvo engines, engine room access in the cabin)
3. Greenline 45 (Volvo engines, unknown quality of the boat, dinghy on the swimming platform, fuel consumption)


I'm sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share as much info as possible to hopefully solicit good feedback.
Thanks in advance.

The great loop has its own forum full of questions and answers about everything you would need to know about the loop. They are AGLCA. Worth the membership cost for advice, forums and upcoming rendezvous schedules. We did the loop in 2016-2017 and the community is/was amazing.

 

[Biscuit]

Yea I'll catch some slack due to it being my first post, I do a lot of reading and am looking for a boat to do the Great Loop as you are when I retire. This is by no means a recommendation just simply my as close to perfect loop boat for me, It has twin screws but checks other boxes. For me a Fleming 58 would be my first choice, a Fleming 55 would be second. The F58 has a nicer engine room and a day head in the pilothouse. The Fleming 65 has made the loop as well.

Again not expert opinion, just from what I have learned it works for me.

 

[JYoung]

There is a boat in Vero Beach. GB Classic 36. Incredible boat, ready to do the GREAT LOOP again. Engine and Generator use under 3000 hours on an perfect original Caterpiller Diesal, 3208 A, and a WESTERBEKE,] GENERATOR, Single engine, bow thruster, amazing condition. Probably one of the top 5, if not the best, GB36 C in North America, and maybe Europe as well. She is the yacht you want. Lots of opinions here. Just take a look, and, see for yourself. It is not just quality, it is the best of the best.

Just sayin’

 

[AlexLbk]

Yea I'll catch some slack due to it being my first post, I do a lot of reading and am looking for a boat to do the Great Loop as you are when I retire. This is by no means a recommendation just simply my as close to perfect loop boat for me, It has twin screws but checks other boxes. For me a Fleming 58 would be my first choice, a Fleming 55 would be second. The F58 has a nicer engine room and a day head in the pilothouse. The Fleming 65 has made the loop as well.

Again not expert opinion, just from what I have learned it works for me.

Definitely a very nice boat - a little worried about handling it single handed or with a very inexperienced deck hand (which is one and the same thing). What I really need is to be able to literally pull the dock with an opposing wind/current, step off the boat and tie her off my myself. With my 40 footer I could depart on my own after installing dickmate, but docking on my own was downright scary unless conditions were perfect.

 

[Rufus]

Availability of slips (Great Lakes) starts to become an issue for boats over 50 feet.
Check out our 44' Ocean Alexander in the For Sale section (fairly far down the list). Start the loop on the Great Lakes and run it backwards....or not...