got a notice from canada coast guard today.

[JDCAVE]

You seem very anxious about East Point and prefer to avoid it. I won’t judge, but surely you transited many similar, or even worse areas of concern in your hundreds of hours cruising the BC coast to Haida Gwaii…

I never said I prefer to avoid it…

 

[Alisske]

Wow. You guys seem to be ganging up on the OP. (Some, not all) lol. He was asking, not telling us.

That being said, they picked him up and reached out, it was because it was easier with AIS. The threatening piece bothers me a great deal (maybe some kunucks cannt appreciate the American irrational response to threats, lmao).

My first thought was “threaten me” well i will turn it off and you can go fly a kite”

My 2 cents, and internet armchair voyager opinion is that you keep it on, learn the no go zones and enjoy the trip.

That being said, the CG folks should consider the impact of their behavior and interaction with ships that can produce unwanted developments in the use of safety at sea technology (namely not using my AIS)

There was no need for the threat. No
One wishes to hit whales with their boats

 

[psneeld]

I am still wonering why what was posted in the OP was interpreted as some kind of over reaching threat or was not needed....or anything else negative. The OP didnt seem to be upset by any language in it other than he didnt want to get caught doing simething illegal again in the future and have to pay a fine.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. A. Fully agree with Mr. ps. Where was the "threat"?
The term is Canadians NOT kunucks.

 

[Alisske]

I am still wonering why what was posted in the OP was interpreted as some kind of over reaching threat or was not needed....or anything else negative. The OP didnt seem to be upset by any language in it other than he didnt want to get caught doing simething illegal again in the future and have to pay a fine.

“ They indicated this would be in there files presumably to be used if i were to continue to violate any future rules”

Basically “we are using your advanced safety at sea technology to build a case against you.” “We dont even have to make the effort to even have to get in a boat”. We will write you based on your AIS. For me, its implied. Why was that phrase necessary?

Now im not saying my view is a popular one since I remember ditching GPS units back in the 90s coming back from Cuba if we even came close to any authorities.

 

[psneeld]

“ They indicated this would be in there files presumably to be used if i were to continue to violate any future rules”

Basically “we are using your advanced safety at sea technology to build a case against you.” “We dont even have to make the effort to even have to get in a boat”. We will write you based on your AIS. For me, its implied. Why was that phrase necessary?

Now im not saying my view is a popular one since I remember ditching GPS units back in the 90s coming back from Cuba if we even came close to any authorities.

OK, I am still wondering why people think this is bad or overreaching. Now if they isdued a ticket blind, I might have some sympathy as it is tough ( though no excuse) to know all the transient restrictions that come up.

Its no different than public video showing you blowing a red light or stop sign.

Don't do the crime if you cant do tbe time.....is another point of view.

 

[Northern Spy]

Basically “we are using your advanced safety at sea technology to build a case against you.” “We dont even have to make the effort to even have to get in a boat”. We will write you based on your AIS. For me, its implied.

What makes you think AIS is distinctly for safety at sea?

It was envisioned for COLREGS collision avoidance. It is now used for fishing fleet monitoring, cargo monitoring, maritime security, AtoNs, SAR, accident investigation, time in port data logging, and apparently, whale protection zones.

Canada has a Marine Mammal Desk staffed 24/7 in nearby Sidney MCTS that uses AIS, radar, and aircraft to track both whales and vessels.

It was part of the Trans Mountain Pipeline Agreement as opponents cited whale strikes as one of the major risks of increased tanker traffic.

Wait until you find out about the NASP project. Smile and wave at the red Dash 8 flying overhead... I usually see them on Wednesday.

And (pedantically) for you, it is inferred (not implied).

 

[Alisske]

Cant argue with the “cant do the time response” but justifying something with red light cameras is laughable, lol. (C’mon, red light cameras……).

My point was, no need to threaten to use his AIS info against him. It was unnecessary and i am amazed that anyone. Is arguing the point.

Just could have said, “captain, please observe whale areas of face getting a summons”. Rather than i will ise your safety at sea technology against you. If said, it was a stupid and y comment

 

[Alisske]

Northern spy, pedantics are for small minds if they don't actually support an argument, but rather obfuscate by menial mental gymnastics. Lol

That said, it was unnecessary to threaten him by his AIS data. It was stupid and unnecessary . Explain to me how that helped anything

And for the record, it was implied directly by the statement from the CG. Jeez, your exhausting.

 

[psneeld]

Cant argue with the “cant do the time response” but justifying something with red light cameras is laughable, lol. (C’mon, red light cameras……).

My point was, no need to threaten to use his AIS info against him. It was unnecessary and i am amazed that anyone. Is arguing the point.

Just could have said, “captain, please observe whale areas of face getting a summons”. Rather than i will ise your safety at sea technology against you. If said, it was a stupid and y comment

Notice how I specifically didn't say "red light cameras" but just "public video" and also included stop signs, not just red lights.

Before using things like small minds referring to others... be careful you aren't limiting your thinking to fit your prejudices.

As to how it helped....it got a bunch of internet weenies all up in arms about the possibility they might get wacked because their "boating practices" don't jive with the law.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. A. "Explain to me how that helped anything" Well, it certainly seems to have gotten YOUR panties in a wad.

 

[Alisske]

Greetings,
Mr. A. "Explain to me how that helped anything" Well, it certainly seems to have gotten YOUR panties in a wad.

Thats brilliant firefly. So helpful.

Still is proving the point since no one can answer.

Have. Fun being a troll

 

[Alisske]

PSNeeld,

I know your a. Good guy. You post a lot of helpful
Info and have good experience on thee water.

If i also remember correctly, your are (always will be) a coastie.

That said, stop defending an errant comment made by some other coastie that was unnecessary. Everyone has a bad day, and this coastie crossed a line (a minuscule one to some, big to others). By using some dumb language. (I think it was just a off script comment, i am sure the CG guy that said it is an OK
guy too, just stepped a step to far.)

And. Calling folks internet weenies. C’mon man. Your a. Good source of info here. You gonna muck it up defending an off message comment reported by someone that had a bad experience?

I can expect childish trolls from
Folks like firefly, but your above that

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. A. This thread has gone on for 130+ posts so far. Explanations from several angles have been presented, none of which you seem to understand.

 

[Alisske]

Greetings,
Mr. A. This thread has gone on for 130+ posts so far. Explanations from several angles have been presented, none of which you seem to understand.

Nice. Again, good work, lmao.

You have really contributed.

 

[psneeld]

PSNeeld,

I know your a. Good guy. You post a lot of helpful
Info and have good experience on thee water.

If i also remember correctly, your are (always will be) a coastie.

That said, stop defending an errant comment made by some other coastie that was unnecessary. Everyone has a bad day, and this coastie crossed a line (a minuscule one to some, big to others). By using some dumb language. (I think it was just a off script comment, i am sure the CG guy that said it is an OK
guy too, just stepped a step to far.)

And. Calling folks internet weenies. C’mon man. Your a. Good source of info here. You gonna muck it up defending an off message comment reported by someone that had a bad experience?

I can expect childish trolls from
Folks like firefly, but your above that

Thank you for the kind words.......but......

I disagree that dumb language was used.

I don't stick up for people that don't deserve it, friends of family either.

I was including myself in the internet weenies comment. If anyone took that as a serious jab, I apologize. Butbased on way too many TF posts these days, internet weenies would be a compliment for a bundle of posters.

I still think my point is worthy info/ advice and no I won't stop because someone disagrees with me if I still think incorrect or slanted info is being posted. The language could have been much harsher and not have been out of line and a violation could have been issued had a violation actually taken place. A harsh warning to one boater now has alerted many more individuals and will spread further because the "harsh wording" was used and not some wimpy bureaucratic jargon no one understands or cares about and would forget about 10 seconds after the crumpled up the letter and tossed it.

 

[Alisske]

Fair enough. No one says we all have to agree. Just have a point of view and be able to explain it.

I have family and many friends in LE. Its not CG, but similar. Its an impossible job at the end of the day due to things like this.

Like i said, I’m sure that coastie is a good guy and either way, he would be out searching for my ass in a bad situation.

Sincerely,

Mr. A (lol)

 

[Benthic2]

...That being said, the CG folks should consider the impact of their behavior and interaction with ships that can produce unwanted developments....

Have you considered what the consequences of the Coast Guard doing nothing ? The zones get ignored and whale strikes go up.

Maybe I am missing something but the CG only had 3 options.

1. Do nothing
2. issue a warning like they did
3. Enforce the statute according to the law, which probably means fines or arrest.

By choosing option 2 as they did, it effectively educates the boater ( and his social circle ) with minimal inconvenience to the boater, and the lowest cost for the CG, as deploying a boat would have been costly.

Imagine yourself as a the CG officer in charge for this day. What would you have done ?

 

[Alisske]

Give only the three options you present, number 2 (but that's an easy way to “box a polemic”)

1. Do nothing
2. issue a warning like they did
3. Enforce the statute according to the law, which probably means fines or arrest.

But, what you have missed, is that i simply said he should do #2 but should not have said that his AIS data will be used against him to be fined etc…. Thats all. Just remove that one phrase, and i think the messaging is better and more effective.

We are talking about hitting whales, not smuggling drugs. No one wants to run over a whale. Just need to let them know, threatening a fine works, but saying, “your AIS data will be used for future. Issues”. Its not helpful IMHO.

 

[soin2la]

Alisske, you are making quite an assumption here. Only the OP knows what was actually said and, having re-read his posts, I believe he is paraphrasing what was written in the letter and guessing what consequences could possibly follow if future infractions occur. He has not quoted the CCG.

The letter indicates possible fines up to 1m dollars and jail time. They indicated this would be in there files presumably to be used if i were to continue to violate any future rules.

But, what you have missed, is that i simply said he should do #2 but should not have said that his AIS data will be used against him to be fined etc…. Thats all. Just remove that one phrase, and i think the messaging is better and more effective.

What has taken place is no different than an encounter with any enforcement agent in any jurisdiction where a “warning” is issued and might be recorded.

There was no threat, just the courtesy of informing the OP that somewhere in the system a note would be entered referring to this warning. No different from a highway speed warning

 

[magna 6882]

Its been interesting hearing everyone's take on this.i believe its was the coast guard who polity and professionally got me out of the restricted waters. The letterhead is from Transport Canada,maritime safety and security.
I am glad this thread looks to be helpful in other members education regarding these protection zones. I may need to have a lawyer look at these documents for a response.

 

[Northern Spy]

Its been interesting hearing everyone's take on this.i believe its was the coast guard who polity and professionally got me out of the restricted waters. The letterhead is from Transport Canada,maritime safety and security.
I am glad this thread looks to be helpful in other members education regarding these protection zones. I may need to have a lawyer look at these documents for a response.

Maybe you can have a moderator change the title.

CCG works for DFO, not TC.

That is the Canadian Coast Guard works for Fisheries and Oceans Canada, not Transport Canada.

As JDCAVE tried to point out, this is not a DFO initiative, but rather a TC initiative.

See SSB 19/2020, 12/2021, and 15/2022.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-tran...southern-british-columbia-2022-ssb-no-15-2022

It's been in all of the NOTMARS and I hear it on CCG broadcasts.

It was put in place to appease ENGOs as a condition for the twinning of the Trans Mountain Expansion Project.

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/about/...ns-mountain-expansion-project-conditions.html

Essentially, you got double dipped. Once verbally by the CCG, and once in the mail by Transport Canada.

 

[Alisske]

Alisske, you are making quite an assumption here. Only the OP knows what was actually said and, having re-read his posts, I believe he is paraphrasing what was written in the letter and guessing what consequences could possibly follow if future infractions occur. He has not quoted the CCG.


Sure. If the OP misstated the letter, it is possible that no threat was made. That is very possible.

I was just going off what the OP stated in the forum, which, IMHO was an unnecessary comment with an implied threat.

 

[soin2la]

Maybe you can have a moderator change the title.

CCG works for DFO, not TC.

That is the Canadian Coast Guard works for Fisheries and Oceans Canada, not Transport Canada.

As JDCAVE tried to point out, this is not a DFO initiative, but rather a TC initiative.

When was the last time you saw a TC vessel on the water?

As I pointed out, in the encounter described by Mark Laurnen at posts 99 and 107 with three agencies attending, DFO should have been the lead and the enforcers of the No Go Area and fishing regulations.

Yes, the interim sanctuary areas are TC initiatives, but the same hair could be split on land, where impaired driving is a DOJ initiative but local police are the enforcers.

 

[Northern Spy]

When was the last time you saw a TC vessel on the water?

As I pointed out, in the encounter described by Mark Laurnen at posts 99 and 107 with three agencies attending, DFO should have been the lead and the enforcers of the No Go Area and fishing regulations.

Yes, the interim sanctuary areas are TC initiatives, but the same hair could be split on land, where impaired driving is a DOJ initiative but local police are the enforcers.

The (paraphrased) title of the thread is "I got a notice from the Canadian Coast Guard today".


He didn't, he got one from Transport Canada. The encounter with the coast guard happened in the summer, the notice came in November.

Merely bureaucratic federal government inefficiency. Or in this case duplicity.

BTW post 99 and post 107 aren't even from the original poster. Different story all together.

 

[hollywood8118]

Have you considered what the consequences of the Coast Guard doing nothing ? The zones get ignored and whale strikes go up.

But do they?


How many of us HAVE ACTUALLY hit an Orca or even come CLOSE to hitting one?
I understand large commercial ships transitioning an area do hit whales from time to time but how many transition that area that close to shore ?


Often times Environmental groups get legislation enacted that are nothing more than "feel good" legislation and have no real science or net result other than blocking certain groups or individuals from use of an area or even their own personal property.
I have been boating in Puget Sound for almost 30 years and have never had interaction with Orca EXCEPT when the Orca were over 1/2 mile off the beam of our boat headed straight for us ( catching us) and played around us to show us a new calf.

What I think worries many is what could be the gradual loss of areas we can transit as groups ask for more and more of these areas as we continue to see a shrinking of the Orca heard and they think more will be better.
As much as I love Salmon, I wonder if the only thing that may make a difference is the complete ban of salmon fishing for a period of time. It is interesting that the local Tribes while touting the connection with the Orca will never suggest this as an option.

HOLLYWOOD

 

[Northern Spy]

We already have a salmon fishing ban in Canada in the areas that the Southern Residents live. The US does not.

I agree that there is a lot of virtue signaling going on by the Canadian federal government though in this concern.

 

[JDCAVE]

I have been exploring the Restricted Area off Saturna with Coastal Explorer on my home desktop computer. I can see the notification clearly on the Raster Charts, but I cannot seem to see it on the Vector Charts.

As a matter of course, I get chart updates on these every 2 years: I update the CHS Vector Charts on one cycle year and the Raster Charts on the other cycle year. There is always one type/version of charts that are updated. This year, the Vector chart subscription is current. The Raster Chart subscription has "expired".

As far as I can tell, there does not seem to be a way of displaying the notification on Vector Charting option.

What have I missed here?

Jim

 

[Northern Spy]

I have been exploring the Restricted Area off Saturna with Coastal Explorer on my home desktop computer. I can see the notification clearly on the Raster Charts, but I cannot seem to see it on the Vector Charts.

As a matter of course, I get chart updates on these every 2 years: I update the CHS Vector Charts on one cycle year and the Raster Charts on the other cycle year. There is always one type/version of charts that are updated. This year, the Vector chart subscription is current. The Raster Chart subscription has "expired".

As far as I can tell, there does not seem to be a way of displaying the notification on Vector Charting option.

What have I missed here?

Jim

Its the faded magenta ESSA. Click it and you will see this.

 

[Mac2]

But do they?


How many of us HAVE ACTUALLY hit an Orca or even come CLOSE to hitting one?
I understand large commercial ships transitioning an area do hit whales from time to time but how many transition that area that close to shore ?


Often times Environmental groups get legislation enacted that are nothing more than "feel good" legislation and have no real science or net result other than blocking certain groups or individuals from use of an area or even their own personal property.
I have been boating in Puget Sound for almost 30 years and have never had interaction with Orca EXCEPT when the Orca were over 1/2 mile off the beam of our boat headed straight for us ( catching us) and played around us to show us a new calf.

What I think worries many is what could be the gradual loss of areas we can transit as groups ask for more and more of these areas as we continue to see a shrinking of the Orca heard and they think more will be better.
As much as I love Salmon, I wonder if the only thing that may make a difference is the complete ban of salmon fishing for a period of time. It is interesting that the local Tribes while touting the connection with the Orca will never suggest this as an option.

HOLLYWOOD

Excellent points! Has anyone ever heard of a recreational boat striking a Orca? If so, was it at trawler speeds? Doubt it. I know of Orcas that put themselves in dangerous prop strike situations, but would be curious if a cruising boat has run over an Orca, or even got close.