Gasser on the Great Loop?

[Cargile]

I own a 50 year old Cargile Cutter, 28' trailer trawler w a Ford 302 (5.0L). It has a 150 gal fuel tank. Quite comfortable live aboard for 1 or 2. I have been watching many Great Loop You Tube videos/channels and I am hooked. The smallest boat I have seen is 34' and I believe all are diesels. I was of the mind set my boat was too small and a gasser for such a venture. Then I watched a You Tube video by Martin Nethkin, Channel Surfing. 27' Ranger tug w 300 hp Yamaha. He had his wife, son and at least 1 dog along on the Inside Passage to Alaska. I recall about a 3 month cruise. That gentleman has it together. It got me thinking that my boat on the east coast would have a much less arduous time then Martin did. So, please comment on my boat, a gasser and the Great Loop. Thanks. P.S. the only difference between my 28' and the 30' is 2 more feet in the cockpit. Flying bridge helm only. Thanks

 

[kthoennes]

One of the books we keep on our boat for fun is "Only in America" by John Mirassou, who did the Loop in 1987 with two of his buddies in a 17' Boston Whaler. Great read. Personally I need more creature comforts, but they had a blast.

 

[jleonard]

I knew a couple that did the loop with a 36 ft double cabin Mainship with twin 350 gas engines. He had no problems with that setup.

 

[Crux]

I think you would be fine.
Ron Stob and his wife traveled extensively in their 26' Campion trailerable cruiser with a small block Mercruiser w alpha drive.
They wrote an excellent book, Great Loop Side Trips..
(they were also the authors of 'Honey Lets Buy a Boat' covering their previous complete loop in diesel trawler)

Remember the Pardy's advice, Go small, go now!

 

[DavidM]

No problem with running a gasser around the loop. I had a Cape Dory 28 with a Chrysler gasser and I wouldn’t hesitate to take it around the loop.

Older gassers aren’t very efficient at slow crusing speeds but the extra cost for fuel will be negligible.

David

 

[psneeld]

Would take that Cargile on the loop in a heartbeat (kinda wish I had one now ) . Biggest issue I see is range.... forget the longest distance between farthest gas stops (think diesel is even longer)... somewhere on a Western River. So, would have to know my nominal range and figure out how to carry more if needed. Even if only one fuel stop.

Next is carrying enough galley supplies.... water & food.

Lots of small vessels have done the Loop.... all the way down to a PWC. Though supposedly a great trip...not so sure at some point it's as much a stunt as a relaxing, fun trip. Planning and support for extreme trips becomes the mission as much as the trip.

 

[Cargile]

Thanks. It has a 150 gal fuel tank. I really haven't found its sweet spot but now guessing 300 mile range. That would be 2 mpg if I run the tank dry so maybe 200 miles. 40 gals water. Composting head. Ample storage for supplies. 4 cu ft reefer so maybe 5-6 days of fresh chow. Enough storage for a month of canned food.

I was trying to reply to psneeld but it likes like it came out a general reply.

 

[psneeld]

longest distance between gas stops on great loop? - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Fuel Considerations - Your boat must have a minimum fuel range of 250 miles. This will be the farthest distance between available fuels stops if you take the standard Tennessee-Tombigbee route.

There you have it... some how I would figure out to carry a bit more fuel, but then again...hopefully someone that made that run could give you an idea of following current that would help enough to minimize extra, or even if need to add extra fuel.

Sounds like your past cruising gives you enough data points to make the rest of the critical decisions on looping. Many here might also recommend joining the Loop Association for zeroing on specific help from fresh loopers.

 

[High Wire]

So 6000 miles at 2 mpg with dockside gasoline between $4-5 per gallon is $12-15K for fuel alone. If that’s not a problem then go for it.

 

[helm]

We did the loop with our C-Dory 25 powered with a Suzuki 200, 100 gallon fuel capacity. No problems, the only issue with fuel range was Alton to Kentucky Lake. We just filled up at Hoppies on the Mississippi and had a few Jerry cans just in case to make Kentucky Lake.

 

[Cargile]

So 6000 miles at 2 mpg with dockside gasoline between $4-5 per gallon is $12-15K for fuel alone. If that’s not a problem then go for it.

So everyone, diesel or gas is facing a similar bill. Yes? It is an expense. I am missing the point.

 

[Jeff F]

It wouldn't surprise me if 1/3 of loopers are in gas powered boats. Inboards and outboards. And quite a few are under 30 ft.

One great thing to me about a trailerable boat is that the commitment level doesn't have to be as high. You can bail out halfway or do it in planned stages.

Go for it.

 

[Cargile]

longest distance between gas stops on great loop? - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Fuel Considerations - Your boat must have a minimum fuel range of 250 miles. This will be the farthest distance between available fuels stops if you take the standard Tennessee-Tombigbee route...........................

T

I read the link. 200 miles from the upper Mississippi to Paducah. Egads, I thought this country was settled by the late 19th century. I don't doubt what I read but I am surprised that none of the Great Loop videos I watched mentioned this. So, I have a 150 gal tank. At 2 mpg that is 300 miles and the tank is dry. Not a good idea. A 250 mile range is reasonable. 10-20 gals of fuel could be easily carried on the bow. I think I got this. Thanks.

 

[Cargile]

It wouldn't surprise me if 1/3 of loopers are in gas powered boats. Inboards and outboards. And quite a few are under 30 ft.

One great things to me about a trailerable boat is that the commitment level doesn't have to be as high. You can bail out halfway or do it in planned stages.

Go for it.

The trailer part fits my life style and check book. I like it. Thanks.

 

[Cargile]

longest distance between gas stops on great loop? - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Fuel Considerations - Your boat must have a minimum fuel range of 250 miles. This will be the farthest distance between available fuels stops if you take the standard Tennessee-Tombigbee route.

There you have it... some how I would figure out to carry a bit more fuel, but then again...hopefully someone that made that run could give you an idea of following current that would help enough to minimize extra, or even if need to add extra fuel.

Sounds like your past cruising gives you enough data points to make the rest of the critical decisions on looping. Many here might also recommend joining the Loop Association for zeroing on specific help from fresh loopers.

Joining the Great Loop Association is a damn good idea. If I really decide to pull the trigger on this I certainly will. Thanks.

 

[ranger58sb]

So 6000 miles at 2 mpg with dockside gasoline between $4-5 per gallon is $12-15K for fuel alone. If that’s not a problem then go for it.

So everyone, diesel or gas is facing a similar bill. Yes? It is an expense. I am missing the point.

I think not exactly. Some of the diesel owners here get up to 2 NMPG, but I think most gassers give you something more like .5 NMPG. (Not at all sure sure about that, though. Others can correct, if necessary.)

Then there's the additional $1/gallon (or whatever) for marine gas over diesel.

-Chris

 

[Cargile]

I think not exactly. Some of the diesel owners here get up to 2 NMPG, but I think most gassers give you something more like .5 NMPG. (Not at all sure sure about that, though. Others can correct, if necessary.)

Then there's the additional $1/gallon (or whatever) for marine gas over diesel.

-Chris

Okay. Now I got it. Thanks, .5nmpg? I am skeptical of that figure but I actually don't know my engines sweet spot yet. Your number is scary.

 

[mmullins]

So, is the difference in price between gas and diesel going to offset the price of buying another boat? As the drag racers say, "run what you brung." Also, cool boat by the way.

 

[psneeld]

Okay. Now I got it. Thanks, .5nmpg? I am skeptical of that figure but I actually don't know my engines sweet spot yet. Your number is scary.

Actually for a 30 something cabin gasser like a sportfish or semi-displacement anything trying to run 12-20 knots with twin 454 gassers....0.5NMPG is pretty dead on.

Slow that same boat down and the numbers can be all over the place depending on hull shape, exact speed, propping....etc...

My eyeballs say your Cargile cruised at 6-7 knots or up on plane if not too heavily loaded (which on the loop you probably are) your 2 NM is very doable...maybe more even. And like I said on some parts of the loop when you leave the Great Lakes and head downriver...you may get some free push. I can't say.... but loopers or river rats can.

 

[Comodave]

If you cruise at displacement mode you will get reasonable fuel economy. On plane it will be less than 1 MPG, but at displacement speed you should be able to get around 2 GPH. There is a long run on the Mississippi that gas may not be available so carry a few jerry cans. But I would use the jerry cans up after that run. I don’t like to carry gas on deck in case of a spill. Saw a boat at Lake Powell blow up due to leakage from a jerry can, actually about 18 cans. Pretty impressive explosion…

 

[CaptTom]

I think you'll be fine. When I owned a 28', single-screw, gas-powered boat with a 350 cu. in. motor and outdrive, I got around 1 NMPG cruising on plane, and 2-3 NMPG at or around hull speed. Bring a few portable gas cans just in case.

 

[psneeld]

Exactly...only you can formulate a speed/NMPG log based on your boat and your typical loading for cruising. Those trying to nail down your mileage for the loop are just filling your head with ideas with but not facts. Big difference when trying to calculate needed gallons of fuel for a stretch of water.

Hundreds of assistance tow boats carry multiple jugs of gas and diesel every day without blowing themselves up. Having gasoline or propane onboard is only as dangerous as you are. Pay attention to safety protocols and you will be fine.

 

[mvweebles]

If gas vs diesel is your biggest obstacle, you're home free and will have a great time.

Looks like a cool boat for protected waters. I've never done the loop but if I owned your boat and had a hankering, I'd take your Cargile in a heartbeat. Might even seek one out - looks like a lot of fun.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

I agree that fuel range is the biggest concern, but should be a manageable issue. I'd generally have no concerns about doing it with a gas boat, and I've met a guy who did it in a 28 ft Sea Ray with a single 350. He did use a bladder for extra fuel on one stretch though.

As far as fuel burn, my 38 foot boat (a bit over 27k lbs loaded) with twin 454s gets just on the high side of 0.5 nm / gal on plane and somewhere around 1.2 - 1.3 nm / gal at 6.5 kts. I'd expect at least 1 nm / gal on plane from the Cargile, 2 or better should be possible if the speed is kept down to 6 kts or less.

 

[High Wire]

So everyone, diesel or gas is facing a similar bill. Yes? It is an expense. I am missing the point.

From what I've seen in the last few years is gasoline has been running about $1 more per gallon than diesel at the fuel dock. Makes enough difference over 6000 miles to at least mention it here.
Here is the Waterway Guide Fuel Price listings. Take a look:

Waterway Guide | Fuel Pricing

Fuel Price Reports for Chesapeake & Delaware Bays

www.waterwayguide.com

 

[DavidM]

My Cape Dory 28 with the 275 hp Chrysler gasser got 1.8 Nm per gallon of gasoline at 7 kts. A friend's boat with the 200 hp Volvo got about double that on diesel. Like I said above, older carbureted gassers are rather inefficient at low speeds.

So for the loop, that could be a significant difference particularly if as someone said above, gasoline is about $1.00 per gallon more than diesel at the fuel pump which is the opposite of auto fuel.

David

 

[psneeld]

One more time...figure out YOUR boat's fuel curves... everyone else's doesn't mean a thing when staring at your nav plot and you are questioning your fuel decisions.

I spent 2 careers having to balance fuel against mission requirements...everyone else's opinions were lost in the noise when it was up to my a** to make the decision. One career it meant 4 lives so I took it very seriously.

Sounds like you aren't leaving tomorrow, so do some test runs if you are seriously thinking of one heck-of-a cruise like the loop. Facts are facts, not someone else's experiences.

See what you are up against then figure inside and outside the box for your options. Read lots of loopers opinions on the good and bad parts of the loop. With a trailerable boat, you have options of bypassing parts that present issues. You can always trailer back to spots to explore further. As I said before, I would take your boat on a loop in a heartbeat based on your stories of your travels as I see nothing but opportunity to have a great loop experience.... not sweating what some may think your fuel mileage might affect the trip.

 

[ssobol]

It wasn't that long ago where diesel was $1+ more expensive the gasoline. Who knows what the prices of fuel will be when the OP gets around to doing the loop.

I would expect that at "hull" speed, the OP's gas boat would get decent mileage. Also, in lots of stretches on the big rivers in the middle of the country you are going downstream when doing the loop. This can add a knot or three to your range/hour.

 

[psneeld]

I think most loopers will confess that unless a high performance vessel or trying to go fast, fuel costs are probably lower or in line with many other loop costs unless trying to do it as inexpensively as humanly possible.

I only brought up loop fuel mileage, not as a loop cost as much as just sweating a few distances on the loop where fuel was usually available or not..

One thing many people forget is speed vs costs. If you speed and use fuel quickly and it costs more...the dockage, food, daily costs all go down as the trip happens faster. Do the loop over 3-4 years and the fuel costs probably become a tiny fraction of the loop you are thoroughly enjoying.

Every looper see it differently and thus the costs will be all over the map.

So with the exception of tankage versus capability to get to the next fuel stop...all the rest falls on the looper to determine their journey... mush less leaning toward NMPG.