Gas or electric dinghy outboard

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DDW said:
Seals on electric motors are pretty well worked out. Submersible pumps for example are expected to last a couple of decades, continually submersed at significant depth.
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But submersible pumps aren't sealed. They're typically water lubricated, so the water they're submerged in provides lubrication and cooling. Cooling being the primary need. Water flows through the motor. Run a submersible out of the water and it will self destruct in short order.
 
Maerin said:
But submersible pumps aren't sealed. They're typically water lubricated, so the water they're submerged in provides lubrication and cooling. Cooling being the primary need. Water flows through the motor. Run a submersible out of the water and it will self destruct in short order.
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Electric outboards are also submersed in water for cooling, run one out of the water and it will overheat. There is no real reason the direct drive ones could not be water lubricated, but at least eProp has chosen to seal them. There are plenty of seawater rated submersible pump motors available.
 
I would trust that the design will not normally leak water into the motor. That was the original point, not whether the electrical motors should or should not be water compatible. I would bet that an accidental dunking of an electrical outboard would be much less damaging than dunking a gas one.
 
DDW said:
Electric outboards are also submersed in water for cooling, run one out of the water and it will overheat. There is no real reason the direct drive ones could not be water lubricated, but at least eProp has chosen to seal them. There are plenty of seawater rated submersible pump motors available.
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It's more than just the motor itself, there are also motor control electronics in the same sealed compartment. Not exactly the same as a submersible pump.
 
lol everything on my boat (ex the gen) is a 2-Stroke !
 
backinblue said:
It's more than just the motor itself, there are also motor control electronics in the same sealed compartment. Not exactly the same as a submersible pump.
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I haven't taken mine apart, but I don't think there are any motor control electronics in the motor. Those are all up in the battery or tiller, not in the water (but are also claimed to be waterproof and submersible). Maybe there is an electronic commutator in there, I don't know. I doubt the windings are potted like a submersible pump, so if the seal is compromised it isn't going to be good. If this were a substantial problem, I'd think I'd be reading about it on the interweb. Most of the complaints around the Torqeedo seem to be battery life (and the associated recalls) and errors in the control unit. I've not seen any complaints about the motor getting flooded. Very few complaints about the eProp at all.
 
DDW said:
I haven't taken mine apart, but I don't think there are any motor control electronics in the motor. Those are all up in the battery or tiller, not in the water (but are also claimed to be waterproof and submersible). Maybe there is an electronic commutator in there, I don't know. I doubt the windings are potted like a submersible pump, so if the seal is compromised it isn't going to be good. If this were a substantial problem, I'd think I'd be reading about it on the interweb. Most of the complaints around the Torqeedo seem to be battery life (and the associated recalls) and errors in the control unit. I've not seen any complaints about the motor getting flooded. Very few complaints about the eProp at all.
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The battery is just the battery. The tiller is just a display and throttle input. The motor near the prop needs motor control electronics to control its speed, direction etc. If you look at the eProp website there is an exploded view that shows a circuit board behind the motor which I assume is the controller. I don't know why anyone today would buy a Torqeedo when the eProp seems to win in every way including price. My only regret is that I bought the short version when the extra-short would have been better for my inflatable. Measure first. I don't think Torqeedo or anyone else offers 3 lengths.

If anyone wants a slightly used motor (minus battery) I would actually buy an extra short and sell mine. It works fine as-is but the extra draft makes beaching and launching a little more work.
 
backinblue said:
My only regret is that I bought the short version when the extra-short would have been better for my inflatable. Measure first. I don't think Torqeedo or anyone else offers 3 lengths.
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I went back and forth on whether to get the shorter shaft. My boat isn't going to plane. So I came to the conclusion that I'd rather have a 16" draft than catch bubbles sliding down the hull, disturbance from the keel, or the prop cavitate going over waves.

20200904_090509.jpg

20200904_090530.jpg

Ted
 
https://panbo.com/temo-unique-electric-propulsion-with-ancient-design-roots/

Another one to add to the mix. They make comparisons to long tail outboards but immersion blenders would be more apt. In anchorages or mooring fields with short trips to shore, I could see its value for some. Wouldn’t be for me but, I think it’s pretty clever and it’s inventor obviously didn’t just take an existing outboard and tinker with it.
 
O C Diver said:
I went back and forth on whether to get the shorter shaft. My boat isn't going to plane. So I came to the conclusion that I'd rather have a 16" draft than catch bubbles sliding down the hull, disturbance from the keel, or the prop cavitate going over waves.

View attachment 112032

View attachment 112033

Ted
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I agree that longer is better, except when landing on or launching from a beach.
 
Really like the fatty knees. Had one on a prior PSC. Unlike a RIB actually easy to row. Had an engine for her but rarely used it. Also like the Portland Pudgy. Makes great sense. Best of all worlds on a small boat. They let you set it up at various levels. Rowboat. Life raft with canopy, sea anchor etc.. Sail. Designed to accept electric propulsion as stock. Believe they’re poly so no maintenance to speak of. Some think they’re not adequate as a life raft off shore but personally think if you’re thinking of buying a single tube life raft and a dinghy they more than fit the bill at less total expense.
 
That’s the first OB that is truly a new electric design. I think it’s great
 
Arc said:
That’s the first OB that is truly a new electric design. I think it’s great
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Is it really an outboard? More like an electric paddle. There are some good electrics that are more like traditional outboards.
 
Well it’s not an inboard and a paddle is a single blade. I’m sticking with OB
 
This is the first eOB that interests me.
But it’s run time is limited like all handy eOB’s.

But it’s great for those that don’t need (or think they need) a cruising dinghy.
But oars are all that’s really necessary or needed otherwise.
 
Nomad Willy said:
This is the first eOB that interests me.
But it’s run time is limited like all handy eOB’s.

But it’s great for those that don’t need (or think they need) a cruising dinghy.
But oars are all that’s really necessary or needed otherwise.
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Why does this interest you over other electrics? More traditional electrified OB have plenty of range and power for a small dinghy. Oars are not bad but wind and current can be a challenge and also not ideal for the wife to make a quick solo run to shore with the dog.
 
This one has value beyond the small gas OB.

AND I’m making an assumption that is far less money. Money is where the usual electric falls flat. Not just a little but flat and out for the count. If you can afford a thousand or two extra for a fad product that will tank before it blooms ... fine. And you can’t buy a used elec. for $300.
But on the general market people are paying big just to have the latest thing. Do you own a Tesla car too?

Question;
Does this have spare batts that can be put in on demand? Looks like it could have nice little ones that would extend run time. But again money would probably rear it’s ugly head .... the batts are probably expensive.


And about oars you need a rowboat. Rubber duckies need not apply. A good FD hard shell rowboat is the perfect dinghy. The only reason people have duckies is they are fearful the’ll go in the drink. “It’s tippy”.
 
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Nomad Willy said:
This one has value beyond the small gas OB.

AND I’m making an assumption that is far less money. Money is where the usual electric falls flat. Not just a little but flat and out for the count. If you can afford a thousand or two extra for a fad product that will tank before it blooms ... fine. And you can’t buy a used elec. for $300.
But on the general market people are paying big just to have the latest thing. Do you own a Tesla car too?

Question;
Does this have spare batts that can be put in on demand? Looks like it could have nice little ones that would extend run time. But again money would probably rear it’s ugly head .... the batts are probably expensive.


And about oars you need a rowboat. Rubber duckies need not apply. A good FD hard shell rowboat is the perfect dinghy. The only reason people have duckies is they are fearful the’ll go in the drink. “It’s tippy”.
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We can agree to disagree, these are all opinions, there is no right or wrong. Initial cost of an electric is more than gas, but over time, electric becomes cheaper. I just read an article today about a Tesla owner who has spent about $100 over 30K miles for all fuel and maintenance for example. Do you really think electric motors are a fad? If so, you probably thought the horseless carriage was a fad. But regardless, my choice to buy an electric OB had nothing to do with cost. It was about weight and convenience and dependability. Yes, oars win in all those categories, but that won't work for everyone. You could make a case for no dinghy and swimming to shore, but is that the best practical solution?
 
backinblue said:
I just read an article today about a Tesla owner who has spent about $100 over 30K miles for all fuel and maintenance for example. Do you really think electric motors are a fad
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That's because someone(s) are subsidizing their driving. Model S runs at 0.3kWh/mile. So 9000 kW of power for 3k miles. Assuming near perfect efficiency and $0.10/kWh residential power supply, that's $900. At the rate Tesla charges at a super charger ($0.25/kWh) it's $2,250. So they are either getting free charging from Tesla, their work, public chargers, or store chargers.

Toyota Camry uses 0.02 to 0.03 gallons/mile depending on the model or 180 - 270 gallons for the 30k. or $540-$800 for fuel for the time at $3 a gallon over the last 2 years. Maintenance is included for 2 years and 25k miles, so likely maintenance is free minus maybe one oil change.

The case for the Tesla and the E-motor is that whenever I leave the house or boat, I leave with a full charge. Not any time in gas stations/fuel docks. And its one less thing to worry about spilling. It was fun to pull up to a fuel dock and draw 2000 gallons of diesel and 3 of gasoline for the dinghy. It was less fun to have to keep pulling into fuel docks for 3 gallons of gasoline with no need for diesel (though that bill was easier to swallow). Charging via a rooftop full of solar or the generator/alternators when it's cruddy outside seems like a better alternative.
 
NowhereHome said:
That's because someone(s) are subsidizing their driving. Model S runs at 0.3kWh/mile. So 9000 kW of power for 3k miles. Assuming near perfect efficiency and $0.10/kWh residential power supply, that's $900. At the rate Tesla charges at a super charger ($0.25/kWh) it's $2,250. So they are either getting free charging from Tesla, their work, public chargers, or store chargers.

Toyota Camry uses 0.02 to 0.03 gallons/mile depending on the model or 180 - 270 gallons for the 30k. or $540-$800 for fuel for the time at $3 a gallon over the last 2 years. Maintenance is included for 2 years and 25k miles, so likely maintenance is free minus maybe one oil change.

The case for the Tesla and the E-motor is that whenever I leave the house or boat, I leave with a full charge. Not any time in gas stations/fuel docks. And its one less thing to worry about spilling. It was fun to pull up to a fuel dock and draw 2000 gallons of diesel and 3 of gasoline for the dinghy. It was less fun to have to keep pulling into fuel docks for 3 gallons of gasoline with no need for diesel (though that bill was easier to swallow). Charging via a rooftop full of solar or the generator/alternators when it's cruddy outside seems like a better alternative.
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It will likely change in the future, but for now there are plenty of free charging options for EV plus premium parking spaces.
 
backinblue said:
It will likely change in the future, but for now there are plenty of free charging options for EV plus premium parking spaces.
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Which just infuriates those subsidizing that with tax dollars.
 
FlyWright said:
Not to steal the thread but if anyone likes the Honda 2HP 27# air-cooled 4-stroke for a small dink, I've got a great one sitting in my shed that I'd be willing to sell for $550 in Sacramento/CA Delta/SF Bay. PM me if interested.

Sorry for the diversion from the conversation...
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Is that the same engine you offered to me some years ago, which would require me registering my oar-powered dinghy?
 
Using an electric motor could eliminate carrying another flammable/explosive fue.
 
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