Gas or electric dinghy outboard

[Zoar]

I hear you. i am simply saying the dinghy is new to me, an electric motor is new to me, and i want to give them both a combined test. After i see how this combo performs I will be in a better position to see if i want to go back to gasoline or keep it as is or invest more into an expensive electric. It's R&D in 2020.

 

[backinblue]

Sounds like a good plan and electrics will only get better over time.

 

[nobles9596]

Mercury Outboards, 30 Hp and less, are made by Tohatsu in Japan.

 

[backinblue]

Correct. It seems it's only the really small ones that are problematic.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I use a 36 hp Newport Vessels electric and a Group 24 deep cycle, both of which I already had so there was really no investment. I also have a 2.5 Suzuki and will probably try that on the dinghy and see if it is worth the extra effort.

One of the things not talked about much is the noise difference. If your goal is to tear around a crowded anchorage (which seems to be a popular past time), then gas is your go to engine. If you are looking to enjoy quiet backwaters and shorelines, then electric is the way to go.

The EP Carry looks interesting, but one video of it had a whining motor sound throughout. My Newport doesn't do that. The EP Carry is also $1,700. My Newport electric was $150 including shipping, leaving me with $1,550 to buy a 12v battery. Lithium batteries are scary expensive, but $750 buys you a 100 ah battery. Which means that I can buy two of them and still be $50 ahead. It won't be a cute package, but it looks way better from a price and performance point of view.

No need to remember to drain the carburetor. I'm not sure that I did last time I used my little Suzuki. Guess I'll find out today. Or clean out the carb for the fifth time.

Mark

 

[boathealer]

I use a 36 hp Newport Vessels electric

My Newport electric was $150 including shipping,...

Mark

Surely you don't mean 36 HP .....

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Surely you don't mean 36 HP .....

Sorry, 36 lb thrust.

 

[NowhereHome]

Anyone looked into using some of the ~10 HP electrics as a limp home motor? I've seen a few of the single engine boats I am looking at use a 9.9 HP gas for that purpose, but figure something like the Cruise 4.0 could take advantage of my large planned battery bank and 5kW+ Generator -- swap on a high thrust propeller and scream along at 3 knots?

 

[DDW]

I've thought about it, you will need a power supply capable of producing 8KW for 10 hp. Even if the genset is big enough, that is a very large AC-DC supply. Now the Cruise 4.0 doesn't really produce 10 hp so the power is somewhat less, but still a lot. They claim 8 hp "equivalent" but it is only 4 kw in so actually about 5 hp. The power supply will cost as much as the outboard.

 

[N4061]

Electric Get Home

Assuming the boat already has the generator and large battery bank I would definitely look into this. Assuming your boat has a Diesel engine you can get the OB motor gas off the boat. This is what we did for the dingy and glade. Now, mounting the electric motor to the transom will take some thought but not that difficult. I would work with the boat builder to understand the requirements (loads on the transom, likely very little) including mounting of the motor bracket. I could see a “basket” type mount where all you do is drop the motor into it and off you go. OK, maybe drop is a poor choice of words but you get the idea. When not in use you store the motor inside the boat and keep it charged. Good luck with this project.

John

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sounds like a good plan and electrics will only get better over time.

Sure but why be somebodies R&D shop at your expense when at present gas outboards are still superior? Also I’d need to buy new at x4$.

I can buy a 4hp OB for $300 and it will be very dependable if I put it away w alcohol free gas .. that is readily available where I live.

And I can carry enough gas on-board to almost never run out of fuel. And then most all the time gas will be nearby.

Electric will probably be the future power but now gas is better.

 

[backinblue]

Curious where you would be limping from? Is Sea Tow not an option? This will be a fairly expensive "back-up" motor.

 

[NowhereHome]

From within Puget Sound and Desolation sound. Tows are an option, but have a response time. I need a motor for the dinghy anyways, will have battery and diesel generator and ~2kW+ of solar. So looking to consolidate needs and eliminate another fuel type, oil change, and keeping gasoline viable with a clean carb. Already looking at ditching propane stove and oven so all I need to worry about is adding Diesel to the big Diesel tank.

Not looking for something that gets me home so much as out of the shipping lanes and waves and into a good anchorage, mooring buoy, or marina. We will have tow coverage so it’s just another layer of protection.

 

[backinblue]

Sure but why be somebodies R&D shop at your expense when at present gas outboards are still superior? Also I’d need to buy new at x4$.

I can buy a 4hp OB for $300 and it will be very dependable if I put it away w alcohol free gas .. that is readily available where I live.

And I can carry enough gas on-board to almost never run out of fuel. And then most all the time gas will be nearby.

Electric will probably be the future power but now gas is better.

Respectfully, why is gas better? I could make a case for electric motor today, the electric becomes cheaper at about year 8. Besides that, there is 8 years of no maintenance, trouble free operation. There is not unlimited range, but more than enough what most people need.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Have you heard “the price is right” ?

As I said I can buy a good old OB for $300.
And put simply I can go MUCH further w my old gas OB.
And most likely a 33# OB can produce more thrust.

 

[SteveK]

I went propane 5HP Mercury. So far so good, first year. Use the same tank for BBQ now.
Wife likes it for no fumes.

 

[backinblue]

Have you heard “the price is right” ?

As I said I can buy a good old OB for $300.
And put simply I can go MUCH further w my old gas OB.
And most likely a 33# OB can produce more thrust.

Again, respectfully Willy, you are missing the point and not comparing apples to apples.

You seem to be talking about a used 4 hp 2 stroke. I was talking about a new 3.5 hp 4 stroke. I agree, if you want to buy an older 2 stroke, it will have less problems and be less expensive. But for someone in the market for a new small outboard, 4 stroke is the only option. The 3.5 hp is approx 44 lbs. The 4 hp is 57 lbs. More than I want to deal with. I bought a new 3.5 hp a couple years ago and used nothing but ethanol free gas and still had problems as did a friend of mine. (re-read my original post) My point is that if you are in the market for a new small outboard, electric is the way to go even at twice the original price. I just finished winterizing my electric by carrying it from my car to the basement. It will run flawlessly in the spring.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I don’t do four stroke single cylinder outboards.
I don’t think electric is ready for general small boat usage yet.

But if you don’t mind the vibration of 4s OB’s or the battery/range considerations perhaps one would be right for you. Or if you only use your motor on a dinghy that is 99% a shore boat then either a 4s or electric will do.

But if you want to go quite a distance exploring in this day and age and the money is easy then a 4s little OB is fine.
If you bought a Prius when they were new on the market and think any kind of gas engine is old school and unthinkable Re your image the electric is for you.

So it really boils down to emotions, self image and style. In that regard the little 2s twin is perfect for me. Checks all my boxes.
If your’e anti-engine it’s electric.
And if you want to go some places and don’t like the 2s then 4s singles is your power.

Why did you have problems w your 4s OB’s? Shouldn’t have had problems.
Those weight numbers are way too heavy. My 4hp is 34lbs. Over 20lbs lighter than the 4s you mention. My lightest is a 2hp Yamaha single at 27lbs. My 6hp twin (Johnson) is only 3lbs heavier than your 4hp and has FNR.

My picture above in post # 105 is only at half throttle (about) .... in the quiet zone.

 

[FF]

THRUST is what moves your boat and as usual there is a rule of thumb, ROT for translating HP to thrust.

In general a single HP will create about 20 lbs of push ,usually less.

So a 4 hp old Evinrude Yacht Twin should make 80 lbs but that's at wide open , so figure 40-50 at modest throttle settings .

Hang on to a dock to see the pull.

Yes, different ROT can be interesting to compare.
Cruising a gallon of fuel is said to make 20HP if the engine, tranny and prop are well matched to the boat speed , usually 15 per is more realistic.

So a boat that burns 2 GPH might be creating 40 HP , so you are cruising on about 500 to 600 lbs of thrust.

 

[backinblue]

I don’t do four stroke single cylinder outboards.
I don’t think electric is ready for general small boat usage yet.

But if you don’t mind the vibration of 4s OB’s or the battery/range considerations perhaps one would be right for you. Or if you only use your motor on a dinghy that is 99% a shore boat then either a 4s or electric will do.

But if you want to go quite a distance exploring in this day and age and the money is easy then a 4s little OB is fine.
If you bought a Prius when they were new on the market and think any kind of gas engine is old school and unthinkable Re your image the electric is for you.

So it really boils down to emotions, self image and style. In that regard the little 2s twin is perfect for me. Checks all my boxes.
If your’e anti-engine it’s electric.
And if you want to go some places and don’t like the 2s then 4s singles is your power.

Why did you have problems w your 4s OB’s? Shouldn’t have had problems.
Those weight numbers are way too heavy. My 4hp is 34lbs. Over 20lbs lighter than the 4s you mention. My lightest is a 2hp Yamaha single at 27lbs. My 6hp twin (Johnson) is only 3lbs heavier than your 4hp and has FNR.

My picture above in post # 105 is only at half throttle (about) .... in the quiet zone.

Hi Willy,

I agree with almost everything you are saying but you are a little off topic. I use my dinghy mostly as a shore boat and do some exploring but not for dozens of miles. Let me re-state my main points

I like small 2s motors. Light, strong, dependable.
2s are no longer sold new, only 4s, and not allowed in some waters or soon won't be.
Small 4s are heavy and notorious for carb problems, unreliable. Many people have problems, read reviews.

Electric is not that new. Range is good, many hours on a charge at half throttle.
Electric is perfectly clean and silent and maintenance free.
No need to carry gas.
Electric is very light and easy to handle. Remove battery (10 lb) and remaining motor is 20 lb. I can single hand the 2 pieces to my wife.
Electric always starts with no effort (i.e. happy wife)

In summary, I would like a 2s if I could buy one new. The small 4s motors are terrible. The electric alternative is the perfect solution for me.

 

[Nomad Willy]

FF wrote;
“So a boat that burns 2 GPH might be creating 40 HP”
Exactly in my case.

 

[Nomad Willy]

BnB,
Why do you need (or think you need) a new OB?
You may be a clutz w engines??
Some people just like new things.
HaHa .. some people have money.

Lots of good reasons for buying a new electric.
Lots of reasons for buying and keeping old things.

My old 2s sitting in the garage may not run good next spring. But I know many of the reasons why that may be so ... and how to make it well again. Breaker points may have been sitting closed all that time and my garage is a fairly moist place .. just no rain. And I’m not annoyed by a bit of smoke at start-up. WO neutral that won’t last long being underway instantly. I really don’t like that non-feature.

But I’m not out to talk you into buying an old engine.
Just smile inside when you see me go by.

 

[backinblue]

Needed new OB because I was out of boating for 20 years and returned last year. Bought new inflatable and 4s Merc 3.5 hp. My poor experience with the Merc, along with some fellow boaters having similar issues, pushed me to electric. I wished I had thought of electric initially, which is one of the reasons I started this thread. I'm a decent mechanic, but these finicky small 4s obs are not worth the trouble. Also, I now have peace of mind that if the wife wants to go to shore solo, I know she will have no trouble getting back.

 

[Codger2]

Respectfully, why is gas better? I could make a case for electric motor today, the electric becomes cheaper at about year 8. Besides that, there is 8 years of no maintenance, trouble free operation. There is not unlimited range, but more than enough what most people need.

I have read this thread from the very beginning today and find it most interesting! As some of you know, I have had my share of diesel powered boats since 1995 and just recently sold the last one, a 42' Ocean Alexander. At present, I find myself fast approaching 80 years old with an ailing wife who can no longer take the constant motion & noise of running on the outside. Since my future boating will be limited to San Diego Bay (Thank God, it's a big bay!) with quiet water, I have opted for a 22' Duffy with a real marine head. The boat is capable on 1 charge of anywhere from 6.5 hours to 12.5 depending on throttle percentage used. (The head on this Duffy is great for me as I am currently sporting a 2 hour prostate!) Maintenance? other than boat washing, bottom paint, waxing and zinc changes (1) there isn't any! My choice of "electric" was based on the "mission" of the boat which is defined as Bay only, 35 mile range on 1 charge at full power, (7 knots) and reduced insurance, fuel, mechanical, slip. and tax bills. Not to mention, electric boats have been with us for over 100 years. Duffy (my choice) is celebrating its 50th year in manufacturing electric boats and they have made & sold over 10 thousand of them. For the person who is aging but not wanting to give up their boating passion or is just sick of all the expenses that accompany diesel & gas powered vessels, you might want to investigate "all electric" boats! My boat is due to be delivered in 11 days and I will continue to post shorts articles on my enjoyment or the lack of it.

 

[High Wire]

FF wrote;
“So a boat that burns 2 GPH might be creating 40 HP”
Exactly in my case.

If it's a turbo diesel. Non-turbo diesel closer to 16ish per gph.

Carburated gas 2 stroke, maybe 9 hp per gph.

 

[backinblue]

I have read this thread from the very beginning today and find it most interesting! As some of you know, I have had my share of diesel powered boats since 1995 and just recently sold the last one, a 42' Ocean Alexander. At present, I find myself fast approaching 80 years old with an ailing wife who can no longer take the constant motion & noise of running on the outside. Since my future boating will be limited to San Diego Bay (Thank God, it's a big bay!) with quiet water, I have opted for a 22' Duffy with a real marine head. The boat is capable on 1 charge of anywhere from 6.5 hours to 12.5 depending on throttle percentage used. (The head on this Duffy is great for me as I am currently sporting a 2 hour prostate!) Maintenance? other than boat washing, bottom paint, waxing and zinc changes (1) there isn't any! My choice of "electric" was based on the "mission" of the boat which is defined as Bay only, 35 mile range on 1 charge at full power, (7 knots) and reduced insurance, fuel, mechanical, slip. and tax bills. Not to mention, electric boats have been with us for over 100 years. Duffy (my choice) is celebrating its 50th year in manufacturing electric boats and they have made & sold over 10 thousand of them. For the person who is aging but not wanting to give up their boating passion or is just sick of all the expenses that accompany diesel & gas powered vessels, you might want to investigate "all electric" boats! My boat is due to be delivered in 11 days and I will continue to post shorts articles on my enjoyment or the lack of it.

Looks great Codger. Sounds like the right choice for you. Enjoy!

 

[boathealer]

I have read this thread from the very beginning today and find it most interesting! As some of you know, I have had my share of diesel powered boats since 1995 and just recently sold the last one, a 42' Ocean Alexander. At present, I find myself fast approaching 80 years old with an ailing wife who can no longer take the constant motion & noise of running on the outside. Since my future boating will be limited to San Diego Bay (Thank God, it's a big bay!) with quiet water, I have opted for a 22' Duffy with a real marine head. The boat is capable on 1 charge of anywhere from 6.5 hours to 12.5 depending on throttle percentage used. (The head on this Duffy is great for me as I am currently sporting a 2 hour prostate!) Maintenance? other than boat washing, bottom paint, waxing and zinc changes (1) there isn't any! My choice of "electric" was based on the "mission" of the boat which is defined as Bay only, 35 mile range on 1 charge at full power, (7 knots) and reduced insurance, fuel, mechanical, slip. and tax bills. Not to mention, electric boats have been with us for over 100 years. Duffy (my choice) is celebrating its 50th year in manufacturing electric boats and they have made & sold over 10 thousand of them. For the person who is aging but not wanting to give up their boating passion or is just sick of all the expenses that accompany diesel & gas powered vessels, you might want to investigate "all electric" boats! My boat is due to be delivered in 11 days and I will continue to post shorts articles on my enjoyment or the lack of it.

Gorgeous!!

 

[rgano]

Long term storage of a gas OB motor (assuming no other regular use) awaiting that magic day when it is needed as a get-home seems to me a risky proposition. If I wanted an OB get-home and the boat was light enough, I'd go with a propane powered OB. For now, I am happy with Tow BoatUS as a simpler and maybe cheaper alternative in the long run.

 

[backinblue]

Long term storage of a gas OB motor (assuming no other regular use) awaiting that magic day when it is needed as a get-home seems to me a risky proposition. If I wanted an OB get-home and the boat was light enough, I'd go with a propane powered OB. For now, I am happy with Tow BoatUS as a simpler and maybe cheaper alternative in the long run.

Agreed. You can pay for a lot of tows for the price of a spare motor and all that goes with it. Insurance should likely cover the tow anyway. Unless you are somewhere where that's not an option, that's the way to go.

 

[Pdxlou]

We've owned the Torqeedo 1103 for six months (on a 10' Achilles inflatable) and are very pleased with it. We use it to shuttle us to shore while at moorings or at anchor and also sunset rides around the harbor. If your use case requires speed (>6 kts) plus long range, it's not the right choice. I'd expect the cost premium of electric will continue to narrow so time is on everyone's side.