Freezer Power Use Issue

[Bmarler]

another factor in bulk charging with xantrex inverter/chargers is breaker size and the setting for that. That setting will throttle back the charge amps if it’s installed on a small breaker.

 

[Ken E.]

I found this

You can contact Frostline Marine Refrigeration at frostlinemarine.com or call 360-303-4912

Apparently, the technician wasn’t ready to retire and started up his own service buisness. I would bet he is the best source for any technical help.

I haven’t talked to my NL friends for a while. I am very suspicious of them taking over Sea Freeze. I’ll try to stop by and get a read on what is going on.

I have two Sea Freeze units, both custom built for me, 12 volt only. The galley fridge is 12 cu ft and the freezer, in a salon cabinet, is 6 cu ft with 4" insulation. Both have served me well and stay very cold.

Regarding Frostline, this was started by a technician of Sea Freeze, first name McClane. He installed both of my units and is very knowledgeable. Located in Bellingham.

 

[lwarden]

Thanks Ken, I will reach out to McClane and see if he has any suggestions. Still no word back from Sea Freeze/Northern Lights on my inquiry for help. I really like the quality of the Sea Freeze units, I'd hate to tear them out.

Ted, when charging on the generator I stop short of the float phase. Typically, I start charging at 55% SOC and stop around 90%.

@Bmarler I've seen the charging amps going into the batteries above 100A so the breaker shouldn't be an issue. I will double check the setup in the Xantrex unit and see if anything is off.

 

[lwarden]

Follow-up on this. I just spoke to McClane at Frostline, super helpful guy. He was familiar with the design of this system and said it really wasn't great. He said this unit works better as a fridge and has to work hard to get to freezing temps. He also suggested it be run at 10-12F degrees and if I were running it at temps to keep ice cream cold it would be working very hard. I haven't checked it lately but suspect I have it set closer to 0F so there is something to try there. Other suggestions were to add an inch of pink foam to the underside of the lid, check the seals and increase the insulation on the accessible areas in the engine room.

We talked about tearing it out and building one with 4" of insulation and switching to the 12VDC 50-series Danfoss compressor with internal cold plates, he thinks that would work well. But as I mentioned, this probably isn't worth the effort.

I'll give a few of his suggestions a try which are easy to do and report back.

And a final shoutout to McClane and Frostline. Since he's in Bellingham I can't use him, but if any of you need a refrigeration guy please look him up, he really seems to know his stuff.

 

[Delta Riverat]

@Delta Riverat , do you find the size of that drawer to be reasonable? My wife thought it was so small it wouldn't be worth it.

It's not real tall, but it is deep. Fits those new tall skinny 12 cans perfect, regular 12 oz don't use all the space and half liter water bottles have to be on their side. We use it for drinks only, but since what it replaced was a non-op wine cooler, it works well for intended purpose ie not having to go down 8 steps and back up again for a cold drink.

 

[PNK]

Reading all these posts, I had two thoughts:
1) Replace the existing freezer with a new, smaller one, which you could mount inside an insulated box, since you said you really don't need the amount of space you currently have in the freezer.
2) Convert to a cold-plate system; I had one in a 42ft sailboat some years ago, that didn't have a generator, so we had to be careful with electric use. It worked great for keeping frozen food frozen when we were out for several days or weeks, and didn't use a lot of power. The down-side to these systems is that they are slow to freeze fresh food, or something you might have just cooked, compared with a "standard" freezer. We could keep bagged ice that we had bought, but making our own ice didn't work too well.If you have an option, put the cold-plate on a side wall; when they are on the bottom, food you put on top doesn't always stay frozen.
Ours unfortunately was on the bottom, so we had to use the lowest area for food we expected to keep for more than a few days, and the upper area for food we were going to eat in the next 2-3 days.
Good luck!
Peter

 

[PNK]

P.S. As a previous poster said, Sea Freeze is still in business, but have been taken over by Northern Lights. If you call the number on their web-site, they answer "Thank you for calling Northern Lights, how can I direct your call?"

 

[Cigatoo]

Has anyone tried one of these?

47QT VL45 Portable Fridge Metal Freezer 12V Refrigerator Car Fridge

Adventure Awaits! Save up to 25% OFF.Free Shipping in Domestic US makes your summer road trip even cooler! Shop now for special offers! VL45 car fridge powered by 5-year warranty SECOP compressor, fit for overland, road trips, and outdoor living. LA local after-sale technical support.

icecofreezer.com

We purchased one in July.

1	47.5QT VL45ProS Portable Single Zone Fridge With Cover | ICECO

Have it on the flybridge. Has worked flawlessly thus far. Draws under 5 amps at 12 volts. We used it as a freezer for a month long trip.
When set at zero degrees it never climbed above 3 degrees. Total amperage draw was acceptable. Both the freezer and cover are good quality. As for longevity, time will tell.

 

[Portage_Bay]

We purchased one in July.

1	47.5QT VL45ProS Portable Single Zone Fridge With Cover | ICECO

Have it on the flybridge. Has worked flawlessly thus far. Draws under 5 amps at 12 volts. We used it as a freezer for a month long trip.
When set at zero degrees it never climbed above 3 degrees. Total amperage draw was acceptable. Both the freezer and cover are good quality. As for longevity, time will tell.

Thank you for the report!

 

[NWboater2]

Not built in so less elegant, but if you have room these stand alone freezers are bigger and very efficient. 12 and 120v. Have ha one one my flybridge for the last 15 months, never off never warm. Under a Bimini but not well protected. Works great.

Engel MR040 Top Opening 12/24V DC - 110/120V AC Fridge-Freezer

A breath of salt air might be bracing to you first thing in the morning, but it can be tough on steel. That's why we offer the Engel MR040. It offers the same performance as our MT35 and MT45, but with a durable, corrosion-resistant ABS case - and more suited for marine applications. All Engel...

engelcoolers.com

 

[BruceK]

A previous boat,originally the CYCA committee and rescue boat, had an oversize power hungry fridge. I reduced it`s capacity simultaneously improving insulation by adding polystyrene insulation in cut into blocks from a larger thick sheet, to the inside walls.
Nigel Calder published a useful small(for him) book on marine refrigeration, stating with theory, including designing and building. Worth finding a copy.
I also find portable "car" fridges useful. We`ve a Waeco/Dometic, heavy but effective, and a 45L Chinese no name Secop powered one which can manage -8C. Both served well at home when the fridge freezer died recently pending the new big 2 door fridge/freezer delivery. We normally use one to transport cold stuff from home to boat, plugged into the car 12v outlet.

 

[NWboater2]

Oops see now diver beat me to it and you don’t have the room! The Engels are great if you do.

 

[estauble]

The cooling demand of the freezer is a simple matter of thermodynamics and heat transfer. Given a specified amount of energy/electricity input for cooling, the only way to keep the inside temp colder longer is to improve/increase the insulating between the the outside and inside of the freezer. Maybe you can replace the insulation with something with a greater R value, or you will need to add additional insulation to slow the outside air temp from infiltrating to the inside of the freezer.

The other factor involved is the efficiency of your cooling/refrigeration system. If you have lost refrigerant in the system, the system has to work harder/longer to achieve the required/necessary amount of cooling to bring down the temp inside the freezer, i.e. the system efficiency has decreased. You may find that just recharging the systems refrigerant will improve things dramatically.

 

[Snapdragon III]

If you have room for them, I like the solar panel option you threw out at the beginning of this thread. My boat has similar issues with inefficient refrigeration, that requires about 3 hours of generator run time a day. I added 3 solar panels, and it now requires 0 hours a day, on very sunny days, which I assume you have more of in Southern California, than we do up here in the PNW. The solar panels were by far the best bang for the buck addition I have made to my boat.

 

[lwarden]

Honestly, I think the best solution is to add solar. I've thought about it and I could add two smaller ~100 watt panels to the front part of my radar arch and that should cover the freezer load. The issue is adding more weight up there since it's already pretty top heavy. Something to think about. Also, we are on the downhill slope with this boat and are planning to sell it in a year to buy a boat on the east cost for the loop. So, I'm trying to not spend a lot of money on things that aren't necessary.

@estauble, I chatted with the tech and he also mentioned the lack of charge. But I can see the cooling coils all the way at the top are working so likely it has a decent charge. I also agree it's a matter of insulation, but I as I said before, the coils are on the outside of the fiberglass tub, so adding insulation is not a simple task. Basically, I would have to cut out the old one, build a mold and make a smaller one with more insulation. It just doesn't make sense to do all that work.

We are headed to Catalina next week and will try a few things and monitor the use and recharge process and report back.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Honestly, I think the best solution is to add solar. I've thought about it nd I could add two smaller ~100 watt panels to the front part of my radar arch and that should cover the freezer load I think. The issue is adding more weight up there since it's already pretty top heavy. Something to think about. Also, we are on the downhill slope with this boat and are planning to sell it in a year to buy a boat on the east cost for the loop. So, I'm trying to not spend a lot of money on things that aren't necessary.

@estauble, I chatted with the tech and he also mentioned the lack of charge. But I can see the cooling coils all the way at the top are working so likely it has a decent charge. I also agree it's a matter of insulation, but I as I said before, the coils are on the outside of the fiberglass tub, so adding insulation is not a simple task. Basically, I would have to cut out the old one, build a mold and make a smaller one with more insulation. It just doesn't make sense to do all that work.

We are headed to Catalina next week and will try a few things and monitor the use and recharge process and report back.

Like you our time horizon with this boat is just a few years. I've come to the same conclusion, adding solar is the best option. If weight is a concern are you able to find a place for flexible panels? They are not quite as efficient but much lighter.