Do I Really Need an FCC License for VHF Use in Canada?

[Aequitas]

Planning a 2-3 week cruise into Canadian waters, Richelieu and Rideau Canals, Lake Ontario, etc. Skipper Bob's guide indicates I need to obtain an FCC license to meet Canada's requirements. $185 fee. I would need to also reprogram my AIS and VHS. Is this really necessary? This will likely be our only voyage to Canada as we cruise the East Coast predominantly. Curious about other's experiences.

 

[twistedtree]

Planning a 2-3 week cruise into Canadian waters, Richelieu and Rideau Canals, Lake Ontario, etc. Skipper Bob's guide indicates I need to obtain an FCC license to meet Canada's requirements. $185 fee. I would need to also reprogram my AIS and VHS. Is this really necessary? This will likely be our only voyage to Canada as we cruise the East Coast predominantly. Curious about other's experiences.

Are you asking if it's required, or if you will get caught? It's definitely required. I don't know if you will get caught.


When you apply for the FCC SA license, you can specify an existing MMSI. I have done this and kept the MMSI that I already had, but it was a previous FCC MMSI. I don't know if it will work using a BoatUS MMSI which is presumably what you have,

 

[Comodave]

Yes, it is required. If you got your MMSI at Boat/US then you will need to reprogram the VHF with the FCC issued MMSI.

 

[Bob Cofer]

It does not work with the Boat US MMSI, it must be a federally issued one.

 

[Bacchus]

Legally it is required.
Practically not even an issue IMO.
I have cruised into Canada over 30 years and never had the required licenses...
I have never heard of anyone being cited or even asked.
I have communicated w/ Canadian CG and never asked to identify myself other than w boat name.

 

[rslifkin]

The BoatUS MMSI is not entered into the international SAR databases, so it's not very useful outside the US.

You not only need the FCC ship's station license (which provides the MMSI and gets renewed every 10 years), you also need a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit for yourself (lifetime and requires no test). Most countries (including Canada) require you to be licensed to use a VHF, so they'll expect the FCC RR license. And the FCC requires you to have it if you're using a VHF outside the US (there's an exemption where a US citizen doesn't need the license to operate a VHF within US waters).

 

[tiltrider1]

Legally it is required.
Practically not even an issue IMO.
I have cruised into Canada over 30 years and never had the required licenses...
I have never heard of anyone being cited or even asked.
I have communicated w/ Canadian CG and never asked to identify myself other than w boat name.

Only 1 in a 100 has the required license. Never heard of any one getting busted for not having the required license. With the exception of some idiot every now and then calling a false May-day. Do that and they will find every possible violation to charge you with.

 

[bowball]

Only 1 in a 100 has the required license. Never heard of any one getting busted for not having the required license. With the exception of some idiot every now and then calling a false May-day. Do that and they will find every possible violation to charge you with.

They don’t ask to see the license on a boarding inspection? I haven’t been boarded there, but I’m also your 1 in 100. I actually think - not based on anything - a much larger percentage than you suggest have it, at least on the larger boats in British Columbia.

 

[koliver]

OK, I will be the first Canadian to respond.
In 1977 I bought and licensed my first VHF Radio. I don't recall the cost, but it happened every year for about 20 years. Then the rules changed and I no longer required that license. It hasn't been required since, so I, and all my fellow Canadian private mariners operate our VHF radios license free. I will ask my brother who has a Ham radio, if he is required to license it, but that is a much different technology, and I haven't asked yet.
As for visitors, and from the sound of the responses so far, there are those who are FCC licensed and those who are not, but got an MMSI through a non governmental agency, usually BoatUS, I have no information that explains any requirement.

I used to be a member of the CCGA, then RCMSAR. both doing Coast Guard "Courtesy Examinations", but over the years the CG farmed that task out to RCMSAR and private clubs, who are now operating on forms that still originate from the CG. Those forms ask for information on the licensing status of operators of VHF radios, but no longer record licensing status for a "Station". That reflects the lack of any requirement for a "Station" license.

Those earlier posters asserting a Canadian licensing requirement may still be correct, for visitors, but I can't find any on line corroboration of that requirement. Could one of you please provide that?

 

[rslifkin]

I think Canada will only require the operators license as the previous post says. But the US requires the station to be licensed if it's a US flagged vessel operating outside of the US.

 

[Comodave]

Maybe you can get away without a license but in an emergency I want my data in International SAR data bases. And I want to be legal, why not…

 

[Bacchus]

I think Canada will only require the operators license as the previous post says. But the US requires the station to be licensed if it's a US flagged vessel operating outside of the US.

If I recall correctly US FCC requires both a station license and an operator license. I tried to look up costs for those but the FCC site is not easy to find what I was looking for.
AFAIK the requirement is a US based one not Canadian but could be wrong there.

 

[rslifkin]

If I'm finding the correct info, it looks like $185 for the SA license (ship's station) and $35 for the RR license (operator). Another $185 in 10 years to renew the SA license.

 

[Bacchus]

If I'm finding the correct info, it looks like $185 for the SA license (ship's station) and $35 for the RR license (operator). Another $185 in 10 years to renew the SA license.

That sounds about right with inflation vs what it was many moons ago when I researched it.

 

[Portage_Bay]

They don’t ask to see the license on a boarding inspection? I haven’t been boarded there, but I’m also your 1 in 100. I actually think - not based on anything - a much larger percentage than you suggest have it, at least on the larger boats in British Columbia.

I've been boarded in the US and Canada several times and once in the Netherlands. I've never been asked about the radio telephone license or the ship station license. I heard tales of it many decades ago but never witnessed it. For a US boat the USCG is more interested in your black water system than anything else. Foreign agencies in passports and ship's documentation.

 

[Seevee]

Well, it IS the law, FCC law, but under what agreement does the FCC govern VHF operation in foreign countries? I've searched and asked about that but never got an answer, other than, if the US Coastguard rescues you in Canadian waters, then you're in deep without it.



Yes, one could easily get away without it, but there's a thought to comply with the law, just in case you need help.


And, yes, need both the boat license and your personal FCC license. Had mine for 40 years, and get the boat one when needed. but the FCC is a real PITA.

 

[psneeld]

Laws often Include requirements of treaties which the countries are signers of.

International usage of VHF radio frequencies ( not necessarily just possession of the radio) requires a license and is in the FCC legal regulations.

 

[denverd0n]

It really kind of amazes me how often we get these questions that amount to, "Do I really have to obey the law?"

 

[HTurner]

It really kind of amazes me how often we get these questions that amount to, "Do I really have to obey the law?"

Yes, it is amazing. Especially when one considers the minimal cost and effort.

 

[Comodave]

It really kind of amazes me how often we get these questions that amount to, "Do I really have to obey the law?"

No, your honor, I didn’t think the laws applied to me…

 

[rgano]

This is like an argument between those who obey speed limits and auto window tinting regulations and those who may occasionally exceed speed limits and tinting density. What are they gonna do, send you to Vietnam? Oops, they did - four times.

 

[firehoser75]

Personally, I am in the "follow the law" category, and don't really understand the "can't be bothered" crowd? JMHO. Canadians are also required to have a ship's license if travelling (operating the radio) in foreign waters.

I did hear of at least one Canadian who was boarded by the USCG in US waters who was asked about the 'ship's station license". When it was discovered that there was none, the USCG confiscated all unlicensed radios leaving none. Not the enforcement method I would have expected (fine maybe)!

 

[SteveK]

Except for emergencies you need an operator & station license when crossing the border.
Weird, as Canadians and Americans do not need one while within their own country, but do need it once they cross over the line.
As others have said, I also have not heard of enforcement. Well maybe if you start chatting on 16 and there is a LEO in the neighborhood they may be tasked to give you a tune up.

 

[Bob Cofer]

It's like cheating at golf. Will you get caught? Probably not. Should it matter? Depends on your character. I keep score with a pen and have all of the necessary licenses.

 

[Sababa]

Law, according to one famous formulation, is a command backed by a threat. My understanding is that US law requires you to have an FCC station license and operator’s permit to use your VHF radio outside the US, but there are no US authorities there to enforce it. The Canadians don’t require US visitors to have the license/permit, and they aren’t in the business of enforcing US laws in their territory. So there is nowhere both the command and the threat to enforce it exist in the same place. Which is why many people and maybe even most just don’t bother.

Of course, being the rule follower that I am, I have both the license and the permit, which are both available with very little hassle. But I don’t kid myself they there is any practical purpose to it.

 

[hmason]

So how does all this apply to cruising in The Bahamas?

 

[Comodave]

The practical purpose is to get your data into the international SAR data bases in case of an emergency…

 

[Comodave]

So how does all this apply to cruising in The Bahamas?

Same thing, it is a foreign country if you are from the US.

 

[Sababa]

The practical purpose is to get your data into the international SAR data bases in case of an emergency…

Good point. Does registering an EPIRB with a BoatUS MMSI have the same effect?

 

[rslifkin]

Good point. Does registering an EPIRB with a BoatUS MMSI have the same effect?

No, it doesn't, as the BoatUS MMSI is only in the US databases, not international ones. So outside of the US, a SAR agency will still see the MMSI, but they won't have an easy way to look up any info related to it.