Cruising realities

[ranger58sb]

Given qualified technicians cost a bazillion $$/hour, and/or can't be found, and/or can't get there inside of the next six months...

And given it's hard (and often counter-productive) to filter out the "qualified" guys from the wannabees via unsuccessful personal experience (trial and error)...

A self-help program, at least to the extent possible, is usually the most acceptable option... both for peace of mind and to keep the wallet happy.

But...

Lest any lurking newbies are beginning to think we're suggesting budding cruisers need to be experienced engine mechanics, plumbers, riggers, electricians, HVAC techs, sanitation engineers, refrigeration bubbas... etc... before ever buying their first boat...

I think I'll add "willingness to learn" (all that stuff) is the more important part. Maybe a measure of "aptitude" (or more likely, ability to gain some) is probably helpful, too. Might be likely that many of us here came from whole 'nother careers, maybe even not knowing what a hammer looks like or what it's for. First step: Be willing to learn about hammers. Learn about hammers. On to the next challenge.

Being limber enough, and/or the right size, to do work in odd places and personal configurations -- behind an engine for example, upside down and behind your left shoulder, using a mirror and extension tools -- will be a plus.

-Chris

 

[Don L]

In the 7 years I have been cruising a maintenance/repair has never stopped me. Yes there are always things needing addressing and/or repair. But for the most part there are only a couple that really stops you. I have waited in places for a part, but that was just because I wanted it not because I had to have it.

So yes cruising = boat work in new places, let's not make it sound like a common thing that ruins boaters trips unless they allow it to do so,

 

[psneeld]

What some people accept as traveling with "discrepancies" isn't universal.

Some people hardly ever leave the dock waiting for their boat to be perfect, some press on with band-aided major issues and MacGyver/nurse them along till the right time, tools, technician, money make fixing it better/right possible.

The more experience one has with operating a less than perfect boat usually allows a less stressful/interrupted/cut short....etc trip.

Not saying be dangerous...but often that also is mitigated with certain levels of experience.

 

[mvweebles]

.......

Lest any lurking newbies are beginning to think we're suggesting cruisers need to be experienced engine mechanics, plumbers, riggers, electricians, HVAC techs, sanitation engineers, refrigeration bubbas... etc... before ever buying their first boat...

I think I'll add "willingness to learn" (all that stuff) is the more important part. .......

Agreed when applied to entering boating. But for cruising??? I suspect that mismatch between mechanical abilities and boat complexity is a key factor for early exit from cruising. Sure, cost is a factor, but the more untethered a cruising itinerary becomes, the less likely a credit card will solve the problem.

There is a certain type of newbie who aspires to serious international cruising. Though more common on sail forums, even TF gets a smattering of querries of newbies considering the Caribbean. The collective wisdom, myself included, always talks about the boat (I always point out need for stabilization, for example). But you know what? Now that I think about it, many newer boats - some Nordhavns included - have an inverter as their core power dependency. Lose the inverter and you're dead in the water. Electronically controlled engine may not even run let alone start. Inverters are often in a lazarette which are no stranger to water intrusion. Potent cocktail for a really frustrating couple of days while you sort it through.

Another example. Anchored near me in La Paz is a 45 foot sail catamaran. They anchored near us (too near - I asked them to move which they gladly did but ended up in the same place - I moved in the morning) in Santa Maria, 300 nms back. They put out a call on the morning VHF net for someone to run lazy jacks (for non-sailors, lazy jacks are guidelines from the mast to the boom that collect the mainsail when it's lowered). Repair is fairly straightforward but involves being hoisted up the mast to fasten new lines, something a couple of snarky sailors mentioned on the 'net. I bumped into them at dinner last night and easily understood why they are in search of a rigger vs DIY approach. They are happy as can be but my guess is their cruising will be continually hampered by their physical limitations.

Granted my current mindset is skewed from a couple weeks of chasing a charging issue that has consumed all available braincells, but to me, "Cruising Realities" is less about spares and redundancy and more about McGyver-ism. Do you have the talent and mindset to resolve a problem? Will your cruising plan provide a credit card backstop (which I would have gladly paid if the option were available), or will you be solely dependent on your inner McGyver (and in my case, the generous tech support of a benefactor)?

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

In the 7 years I have been cruising a maintenance/repair has never stopped me. Yes there are always things needing addressing and/or repair. But for the most part there are only a couple that really stops you. I have waited in places for a part, but that was just because I wanted it not because I had to have it.

So yes cruising = boat work in new places, let's not make it sound like a common thing that ruins boaters trips unless they allow it to do so,

Don - of the seven years, how what percent of the time was your boat running with only an inconsequential to-do list? Items that would not/could not evolve into a serious issue if left unattended?

I have a hunch that people either leave with the perfectly prepared boat, or they arrive with a perfectly prepared boat. I am hoping for the latter. I decided not to wait for the former. No regrets, just an observation.

Peter

 

[Bmarler]

Is there ever really a perfectly prepared boat? I think acceptable level of to do list is more likely.
I consider myself lucky to have the skills to do anything my boat may require, and my wife is a qualified electrician and pretty darn handy with mechanical things too. Not the norm I know, but enables us to go on extended trips knowing we can handle whatever may come.
We keep the spares that are practical to carry, and temper our expectations that something can happen to interfere with the plan. Don’t stress about it, we’re still out having a good time.

 

[ksanders]

Is there ever really a perfectly prepared boat? I think acceptable level of to do list is more likely.
I consider myself lucky to have the skills to do anything my boat may require, and my wife is a qualified electrician and pretty darn handy with mechanical things too. Not the norm I know, but enables us to go on extended trips knowing we can handle whatever may come.
We keep the spares that are practical to carry, and temper our expectations that something can happen to interfere with the plan. Don’t stress about it, we’re still out having a good time.

Yes, but it takes time and dedication to keep going through the challenges until your to do list is empty.

Then... it takes the same determination to keep after things.

 

[ktdtx]

I suppose in buying a boat, one should pay special attention to what changes/modifications to the boat were made by the seller and previous owners.

You may spend quite some time trying to track down a problem in a logical manner only to find the previous owner made repairs/modifications in a "why the hell did he do that" manner.


I kept an enhanced maintenance log on a laptop in MS Word. I wrote in there the date, how I diagnosed the problem, how I fixed it, where I got the part and part number, any technician/repairman I used that I thought was competent and contact info, etc. MS Word is a searchable document which is nice when it becomes a lengthy document.


When I sold my boat I gave that to the new owner and he called me more than once thanking me for that collection of information.

 

[sunchaser]

Buying a boat is a minimum of a 3 step process:
- finding and financing the right boat
- assuring moorage in a boat centric area
- being aware of nearby and available trades people

Insuffiencies in items 2&3 require increased owner skills. If owner skills are lacking the boat often turns into the proverbial dock as noted by PSN.

TF members responding to this thread seem more than ably qualified to keep their vessel in good working order. You’ll not find too many thread responders who are boat clueless, it gets embarrassing.

 

[guy with a boat]

…Now that I think about it, many newer boats - some Nordhavns included - have an inverter as their core power dependency. Lose the inverter and you're dead in the water. Electronically controlled engine may not even run let alone start. Inverters are often in a lazarette which are no stranger to water intrusion. Potent cocktail for a really frustrating couple of days while you sort it through.

Peter

I don’t know about other boats, but ours will function from multiple power sources. Lose an inverter and we can source AC power from either of 2 gens. We have redundant chargers for the house batteries so DC power (as well as AC) can be maintained without the charger/inverters. We have 2 stacked inverters so hopefully they wouldn’t both go dark at the same time.

Engines start and run from separate batteries with separate charging. We have 3 charging options for the engine batteries. Gens are the same with more batteries.

Other boats are different but redundancies are almost always possible. Sometimes its cross-connecting systems or borrowing a part from one system to temporarily fix another. A key to all this is to learn the boat and its systems. Once you understand how it all works, you have a much higher chance to fix it or at least know what help you need.

Even is someone doesn’t have all the skills to fix everything, the goal should be to at least understand your own boat and how it all works. Then you can reach out to other boaters or to distant expertise (starlink, anyone?) to get instruction to do at least short-term repairs.

Cruising successfully over time would be tough if you aren’t willing or capable to develop a basic understanding of the systems on your boat. It takes time with a new boat or major upgrades (Peter) but boat management becomes much easier after you get over that hump.

 

[ksanders]

Here are a few electrical what iff's to think about...

If...

Your inverter dies, can you bypass it?

Your generator dies, can you charge your house bank?

The engine alternator dies that charges your house bank, can you charge it from a different source?

The engine alternator that charges your start battery dies, do you have another way to keep your engine battery charged?

Any component in your Nav system dies do you have another way to navigate and determine the depth of water beneath your keel?

Think these questions through, because they are just a few things on a cruising boat that are pretty darn important.

 

[Don L]

Don - of the seven years, how what percent of the time was your boat running with only an inconsequential to-do list? Items that would not/could not evolve into a serious issue if left unattended?

100% of the time. My boat has never been "perfect". My boat is either usage or it isn't. It has never been "not useable" condition. Heck I still have things on my initial "to do list" from 10 years ago.

My engine temperature gauge isn't working, how many would not leave with that?

I have a semi long "to do list" right now. Not a single one of those items, even even all of them, if not done will stop me leaving in 1.5 months with a plan to go to Bahamas and continue on to caribbean.

Hope I answered as the question in mu mind was a little unclear

 

[rslifkin]

Here are a few electrical what iff's to think about...

...

Think these questions through, because they are just a few things on a cruising boat that are pretty darn important.

All good questions to think about. I'll include answers for my boat below as an example:


Your inverter dies, can you bypass it?
Yes, although there isn't a bypass switch installed, so it would take a few minutes of work to re-connect around the inverter.

Your generator dies, can you charge your house bank?
Yes, without the generator or shore power charging is still available from solar and the engine alternators.

The engine alternator dies that charges your house bank, can you charge it from a different source?
Yes, charging is still available from solar, generator/inverter, and the alternator on the other engine.

The engine alternator that charges your start battery dies, do you have another way to keep your engine battery charged?
Each engine charges its own start battery, but either engine can be selected to use either or both start batteries, so I could re-configure to have both engines share a start battery (or combine the 2 start batteries) making sure both engines are running from a battery charged by the still-good alternator. Charging is also available from the shore charger for the engine batteries if I start the generator.

Any component in your Nav system dies do you have another way to navigate and determine the depth of water beneath your keel?
Backup navigation is available via a laptop with GPS puck that is kept on board as well as by cell phone. However, backup depth is not currently installed and is a known weak point (and I have had a depthsounder failure once). Making my nav systems more redundant in terms of depth info is on the to-do list.

 

[rslifkin]

My engine temperature gauge isn't working, how many would not leave with that?

On a sailboat departing for a trip with limited expected engine use and easy access to the engine? I'd make sure I have an IR temp gun and go anyway. On a powerboat with a long trip ahead, I'd want to fix the gauge before departure. For a short trip on a powerboat I may be comfortable enough with just a high temp warning alarm and periodic temperature checks with an IR gun. Whether there's a separate and functional high temp alarm would also factor into my decision.

 

[Bmarler]

Here are a few electrical what iff's to think about...

If...

Your inverter dies, can you bypass it?

Your generator dies, can you charge your house bank?

The engine alternator dies that charges your house bank, can you charge it from a different source?

The engine alternator that charges your start battery dies, do you have another way to keep your engine battery charged?

Any component in your Nav system dies do you have another way to navigate and determine the depth of water beneath your keel?

Think these questions through, because they are just a few things on a cruising boat that are pretty darn important.

completely agree. we have multiple redundant systems on ours that minimize the results of one or more system failures. three different battery charge sources, two ac sources, (less important system than d.c.) redundant nav equipment (not networked) paper charts, clock & compass, multiple vhfs, safety equipment, on and on.
also agree that most here aren't the type that can't handle most breakdowns or system bypass situations. but we're just a small slice of the boating public. i definitely know many that don't fit in our category. in our 400 slip marina, i think there are about 25 or so boats that regularly leave the marina. many due to owners not being able to take care of their own maintenance, not to mention, a large portion of just plain neglect.
my to-do list is just a list of less important items that don't stop us from using the boat, or being safe while doing so.
i could leave tomorrow for an extended trip with high confidence.

 

[mvweebles]

Here are a few electrical what iff's to think about...

If...

Your inverter dies, can you bypass it?

Your generator dies, can you charge your house bank?

The engine alternator dies that charges your house bank, can you charge it from a different source?

The engine alternator that charges your start battery dies, do you have another way to keep your engine battery charged?

Any component in your Nav system dies do you have another way to navigate and determine the depth of water beneath your keel?

Think these questions through, because they are just a few things on a cruising boat that are pretty darn important.

This is an excellent list. Thanks for posting. Good one to bookmark.

Peter

 

[Don L]

On a sailboat departing for a trip with limited expected engine use and easy access to the engine? I'd make sure I have an IR temp gun and go anyway. On a powerboat with a long trip ahead, I'd want to fix the gauge before departure. For a short trip on a powerboat I may be comfortable enough with just a high temp warning alarm and periodic temperature checks with an IR gun. Whether there's a separate and functional high temp alarm would also factor into my decision.

So here is a real world (no "mights" you have to decide yes or no):

That temp reading pegged high earlier in the year while in the Bahamas all of a sudden while leaving an anchorage. I didn't have an IR gun.

Would you have turned around or continued?

I continued. I did have a meat thermometer and I stuck that under the lip of the hose on engine and figured that was about the same temp and it wasn't hot. I continued that way for around 100 hours now.

I have now replaced both the sender and the gage and it still isn't reading right. So probably a wire problem, but I have not verified yet. I now have an IR gun, but ...........

Would you leave if you don't get to the wire?

 

[rslifkin]

So here is a real world (no "mights" you have to decide yes or no):

That temp reading pegged high earlier in the year while in the Bahamas all of a sudden while leaving an anchorage. I didn't have an IR gun.

Would you have turned around or continued?

I continued. I did have a meat thermometer and I stuck that under the lip of the hose on engine and figured that was about the same temp and it wasn't hot. I continued that way for around 100 hours now.

I have now replaced both the sender and the gage and it still isn't reading right. So probably a wire problem, but I have not verified yet. I now have an IR gun, but ...........

Would you leave if you don't get to the wire?

As long as I had some method to confirm that the issue was a bad gauge reading and not an actual overheat, then I'd continue. Even more so if the overheat alarm sensor is separate and that wasn't alarming. Especially in a situation like yours where you're presumably sailing most of the trip and aren't going to be running the engine for many hours on end (so the risk of an issue developing without you noticing is lower).

 

[Bmarler]

So here is a real world (no "mights" you have to decide yes or no):

That temp reading pegged high earlier in the year while in the Bahamas all of a sudden while leaving an anchorage. I didn't have an IR gun.

Would you have turned around or continued?

I continued. I did have a meat thermometer and I stuck that under the lip of the hose on engine and figured that was about the same temp and it wasn't hot. I continued that way for around 100 hours now.

I have now replaced both the sender and the gage and it still isn't reading right. So probably a wire problem, but I have not verified yet. I now have an IR gun, but ...........

Would you leave if you don't get to the wire?

if this trip was important, yes. i had a flaky temp gauge earlier this season and it didn't stop me from cruising. i can judge the temperature by how long i can leave my hand on the engine. you had an alternate method of measuring the temps. good enough to give a measure of confidence. i have an ir gun, thermocouple i can hook to my volt meter, as well as a magnetic analog thermometer to do doublechecks. plus, you have backup sail power.
if i had slush time figured in, i'd do the wiring, simply because i don't like things on the dashboard non functional. one instrument down can be a pre-curser to multiple instruments down, or loss of ability to fire the engine. in your case, one meter pegging is likely a sender or sender wire grounding out. removing the sender wire will let you see that immediately and help you decide if you have a big problem or a small one. i've since fixed my problem by replacing the sender.

 

[twistedtree]

The engine alternator that charges your start battery dies, do you have another way to keep your engine battery charged?

Here's a twist on this one worth considering. If the alternator fails because a bearing seized and the alternator won't turn anymore, will that completely disable the engine? Does the same drive belt also turn the engine cooling pump or the raw water pump? The first is very common, and the second is no uncommon. Do you have a shorter belt that you can install bypassing the alternator pulley, but still driving the other critical components?

 

[mvweebles]

Here's a twist on this one worth considering. If the alternator fails because a bearing seized and the alternator won't turn anymore, will that completely disable the engine? Does the same drive belt also turn the engine cooling pump or the raw water pump? The first is very common, and the second is no uncommon. Do you have a shorter belt that you can install bypassing the alternator pulley, but still driving the other critical components?

Dang it. I just returned from AutoZone for a spare belt. Had I read this yesterday, I would have also gotten a shorter belt though unsure I could mount it as the alternator also serves as tensioner..

This is a really good scenario to contemplate - many/most belts also turn the coolant pump.

Peter

 

[ksanders]

So here is a real world (no "mights" you have to decide yes or no):

That temp reading pegged high earlier in the year while in the Bahamas all of a sudden while leaving an anchorage. I didn't have an IR gun.

Would you have turned around or continued?

I continued. I did have a meat thermometer and I stuck that under the lip of the hose on engine and figured that was about the same temp and it wasn't hot. I continued that way for around 100 hours now.

I have now replaced both the sender and the gage and it still isn't reading right. So probably a wire problem, but I have not verified yet. I now have an IR gun, but ...........

Would you leave if you don't get to the wire?

I would have turned around, re-set my anchor and figured out what the real problem was. Maybe just a few minutes.

Not a chance I'm leaving a safe anchorage with something like that unless I know what is happening.

Now... on my engines i have a over temp switch to an alarm, a EGT gauge, and the normal temp gauge. If the temp gauge suddenly read high that is really bad. If it suddenly pegged, that is not as bad as it probably indicates a problem in the circuit.

 

[Bmarler]

Here's a twist on this one worth considering. If the alternator fails because a bearing seized and the alternator won't turn anymore, will that completely disable the engine? Does the same drive belt also turn the engine cooling pump or the raw water pump? The first is very common, and the second is no uncommon. Do you have a shorter belt that you can install bypassing the alternator pulley, but still driving the other critical components?

to quote Peter, dang it. i will certainly have one before this cruising season. as well as bearings for the alternator. i appreciate the mention of this.

 

[twistedtree]

Dang it. I just returned from AutoZone for a spare belt. Had I read this yesterday, I would have also gotten a shorter belt though unsure I could mount it as the alternator also serves as tensioner..

This is a really good scenario to contemplate - many/most belts also turn the coolant pump.

Peter

This can end up being a compelling reason to carry a spare alternator, even if you don't need it to produce electricity.

 

[rslifkin]

Here's a twist on this one worth considering. If the alternator fails because a bearing seized and the alternator won't turn anymore, will that completely disable the engine? Does the same drive belt also turn the engine cooling pump or the raw water pump? The first is very common, and the second is no uncommon. Do you have a shorter belt that you can install bypassing the alternator pulley, but still driving the other critical components?

That's a very good point. My engines have 2 belts. 1 drives the seawater pump, the other drives the coolant pump and alternator. The alternator bracket is used to tension that belt, so a shorter belt directly to the coolant pump isn't an option, I'd need to carry a spare alternator or a pulley that can be mounted in its place as a backup for that situation.

Actually, thinking about it, I should check if the second groove on the coolant pump pulley lines up with the belt for the seawater pump. If it does, it might make more sense to change the belt setup to one driving the seawater and coolant pumps and the other driving just the alternator.

No such concern on the generator though, as there is no alternator, so the single belt drives both the seawater and coolant pumps and you're not running it without both of those working.

 

[Bmarler]

That's a very good point. My engines have 2 belts. 1 drives the seawater pump, the other drives the coolant pump and alternator. The alternator bracket is used to tension that belt, so a shorter belt directly to the coolant pump isn't an option, I'd need to carry a spare alternator or a pulley that can be mounted in its place as a backup for that situation.

Actually, thinking about it, I should check if the second groove on the coolant pump pulley lines up with the belt for the seawater pump. If it does, it might make more sense to change the belt setup to one driving the seawater and coolant pumps and the other driving just the alternator.

No such concern on the generator though, as there is no alternator, so the single belt drives both the seawater and coolant pumps and you're not running it without both of those working.

i would hesitate to drive the seawater pump off the alternator belt. the alternator requires pretty tight tensioning. some seawater pumps won't tolerate that for extended periods.

 

[rslifkin]

i would hesitate to drive the seawater pump off the alternator belt. the alternator requires pretty tight tensioning. some seawater pumps won't tolerate that for extended periods.

I was thinking of going the other way. Changing the belts from being B1 = seawater pump and B2 = coolant pump / alternator to B1 = seawater and coolant pumps, B2 = alternator only.

 

[Bmarler]

I was thinking of going the other way. Changing the belts from being B1 = seawater pump and B2 = coolant pump / alternator to B1 = seawater and coolant pumps, B2 = alternator only.

ahh, i missed that.

 

[Don L]

I would have turned around, re-set my anchor and figured out what the real problem was. Maybe just a few minutes.

Not a chance I'm leaving a safe anchorage with something like that unless I know

Well I stopped the engine as the sail was up and I checked everything. But in the end I found nothing. I was a Navy nuclear guy and we were always trained to believe our indications till they were proven to be wrong. It this is case I still not really proven the reading is wrong really.

And you assuming that anchorage was going to be safe.

My point is lots of people can not leave a dock till everything is OK. But just because things aren't "OK" doesn't mean you shouldn't go. I would not ever get to go anywhere.

 

[ksanders]

Here's a twist on this one worth considering. If the alternator fails because a bearing seized and the alternator won't turn anymore, will that completely disable the engine? Does the same drive belt also turn the engine cooling pump or the raw water pump? The first is very common, and the second is no uncommon. Do you have a shorter belt that you can install bypassing the alternator pulley, but still driving the other critical components?

Very good questions!!!

We carry a spare alternator, and a spare tensioner, and of course a spare engine