Converting to an induction stove top

[FWT]

What’s more likely to get used? Microwave or convection oven? At home i don’t have a microwave. On the boat, I have a sharp combined unit but I was thinking if replacing it.

In our dirt home we have a convection microwave mounted above a standard electric oven. For true oven use (a roast, etc.) its the oven that gets the use. On the other hand, we use the microwave constantly. On the boat we are going with the one (convection microwave), where space is an obvious limiter. Learning the convection side of things will be new to us. Can't be too tough.

 

[FWT]

You can still use aluminum with this converter:
https://www.amazon.com/9-45inch-Dif...ction+cooktop+converter&qid=1630346459&sr=8-6

Now THAT is interesting. Genius. I'd love to find one without the long handle (storage). Gotta be out there. Thanks for this tip.

 

[TemptUs]

I removed the stove and trash compactor. Rebuilt with granite countertop with drawer dishwasher and space to store the induction cooktop. I like the counter space and use all countertop appliances. Much more versatile

 

[Marco Flamingo]

You can still use aluminum with this converter:
https://www.amazon.com/9-45inch-Dif...ction+cooktop+converter&qid=1630346459&sr=8-6

Using a diffuser with an induction stove kind of works on shore. But onboard it probably doesn't pencil out. Yes the diffuser gets hot enough to cook on using your old cookware, but there is a lot of wasted energy compared to straight induction. The beauty of induction is that only the pan itself gets hot and very quickly. No wasted energy because of heat transfer or burner size. With the diffuser, you need to get it hot enough to then transfer heat to the pot. If the pot doesn't fit the diffuser perfectly, then you waste additional heat, just like on a regular resistance burner. And it also stays hot when the induction burner is turned off. So you basically loose all of the benefits, plus additional energy, so you don't have to buy an induction pot.

On a boat, most will have already lost 15% just by an inverter converting 12V to 120. Losing an additional 25% with a diffuser could make induction impractical without a monstrous battery bank. Better to bite the bullet and spend $20 more for an induction set.

 

[FWT]

Marco: great points

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Be aware that when figuring the electrical usage of a microwave oven that the stated watts is usually the power produced in the oven, not the overall electrical use of the appliance. That can be 20% higher. Also beware of running a microwave on a modified sine wave inverter. It might work (and buzz), but the actual energy usage can go way up and the power produced in the oven way down.

My limited experience with a MSW inverter was weird. My induction stove top (IST), as probably all ISTs, has some standby usage when plugged in but not in use. To eliminate that, you have to either unplug the IST or turn off the inverter. If the inverter is used for items, that means unplugging just the IST every time after use. So I was interested in what the standby usage was. If tiny, I wouldn't be concerned. I hooked up everything using a Group 27 battery. With the MSW inverter running, I plugged in the IST. I could immediately hear a buzzing. In fact, I could feel a vibration on the plug when I plugged it in. Didn't feel right. And the ghost draw? 10 Amps! Turning the IST on to #5 made it really buzz. 77 amps! Full power on both burners? I didn't even try it. I wasn't sure that the Group 27 battery could handle it. The IST heated things up, but the buzz and draw was too much. I returned it for the pure sine wave (PSW) inverter that I was supposed to receive.

Today I hooked up the PSW. Standby draw was 1.3 amps. Probably so high that I will turn off the inverter when the stove isn't in use (the inverter alone is responsible for .3 amps of the standby). A single burner set at #5 was about 7 amps, just about 1/10 of the draw from the MSW inverter. Both burners at maximum was 11 amps. For a real world test, a burner set to 5 (7 amps) will heat up a can of chili in 6 minutes (1/10th of an hours). Therefore lunch was .7 amp hours. Actually, I'm not figuring in the inefficiency of the inverter yet, so it could be 1 amp hour. I won't have an accurate number until I run the whole thing through the house batteries and the battery monitor.

I've gone from the MSW inverter sounding really bad to the PSW inverter sounding too good.

 

[FWT]

That was great Marco. Thanks for that.

Makes me glad I have a pure sine wave spec'ed out

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I am lazy... I just want to pull out the old Seaward and drop in a new induction...So project is on hold...

Don't worry about that. Project creep will take hold and the size of the opening will be the least of your worries! My induction top fit the old opening width wise, but not depth, so I had to put on new laminate. Since I had to put on new laminate, I just bought a piece of MDF to lay over the whole counter. With a new countertop, I decided to make an overhang to make it more comfortable. Since it was larger, the old teak trim didn't fit and I bought new trim and got to do some finish carpentry. Since I had to take out the sink, I decided to buy a new one. A real one, not one of the tiny RV sinks with the tiny drain plug that doesn't work. The new sink has a drain rack that fits in the bottom and a cutting board that fits on top.

In the end, the size of my old stove opening didn't really matter.

 

[ranger58sb]

What’s more likely to get used? Microwave or convection oven? At home i don’t have a microwave. On the boat, I have a sharp combined unit but I was thinking if replacing it.

FWIW, ours gets about equal use as microwave or convection. Microwave is mostly just reheating, or sometimes thawing, stuff. Convection is actual cooking.

We had a Sharp R820 on the previous boat; not sure if they're still made or not. Worked very well. We now have a Panasonic NN-CD87KS... installed just a few days ago to replace the original Sharp predecessor. No track record, yet. The new one also includes an air fryer, but we dunno how to use that, or whether we ever will.

-Chris

 

[old-School]

I believe your swap is a big mistake. I switched from electric to gas. Your oven should be electric. The space you gain is from the oven removal. The cooktop swap doesn't require oven removal.
I like induction, but you will like it best at the dock.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Fun thread. And outstanding detail! We have an all electric (no propane) boat and my plan is to go down this very path. It’s down the list as my project feature creep and “some assembly required” tends to convert two day projects into two month projects. All in due time.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I'm still waiting for some materials to finish my installation, but I have some numbers using shore power and a Kill-a-Watt. I took my InstaPot down to the boat to compare it with using my pressure cooker on the induction stove top (IST). For starters, the pressure cooker is about 1/3 the size and 1/4 the weight. Sometimes I use it just as a pot, and I suppose the same could be true for an InstaPot. I'm not sure if you can sear a pot roast in the InstaPot before pressure cooking as I do in the regular pressure cooker, but I don't do that often on board.

An InstaPot has a resistance element that then transfers the heat to a stainless liner pot. That is going to be slower, but I was mainly interested in the amount of energy (battery) that they used. I put a quart of water in each and timed how fast they got up to pressure. The IST was 6 minutes 56 seconds, the InstaPot was 9:48. The IST was using 11.6 amps, the InstaPot was using 10A, so there's part of the difference.

On keeping the pressure up, the InstaPot was pretty impressive. It clicked on for short periods, each time using the full amperage of 10 amps. The IST burner was set to a temperature that kept up pressure and would occasionally come on at 7.25A, but more often than the InstaPot. The InstaPot had one slight advantage in that there was no standby usage when it clicked off, the Kill-a-Watt went to zero. The IST has fans that run constantly even in between the stove heating. That 1.84A standby even when not heating ate into its efficiency. Over the course of an hour, the InstaPot used slightly less. Of course, one would rarely pressure cook anything for an hour (maybe a boot).

I thought that the pressure cooker on the IST would win on efficiency, but it was close to a wash. It is easier to store and handle, but other than that, it's basically a tie. Both can be set to time and turn off automatically. The InstaPot could be set in the sink to reduce it sliding around whereas the pressure cooker just sits on the IST, but again, not that much difference.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I found that the old stove cover top piece, which had laminate on it, covered the open area left from the stove removal. When I pulled the laminate off, I thought for a moment that it was a piece of teak veneer plywood. No such luck, it is luan veneer. I have some more cabinet work in my future.

 

[PPandE]

Not too many serious rogue waves on lots of the AICW.
-Chris

The parts of the AICW I've traveled seemed to have lots of rogues making waves.

 

[OldDan1943]

I found that the old stove cover top piece, which had laminate on it, covered the open area left from the stove removal. When I pulled the laminate off, I thought for a moment that it was a piece of teak veneer plywood. No such luck, it is luan veneer. I have some more cabinet work in my future.

I like your galley lay out.
Is the cook top mounted lower than the counter to prevent the pots from sliding around?

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Is the cook top mounted lower than the counter to prevent the pots from sliding around?

No. The IST is made to be set into the counter with just the Schott glass top and a thin rubber gasket proud of the laminate, probably about 1/4 inch. If I need to keep pots from sliding around I'll use the silicone mat shown in earlier posts.

I even removed the original counter edge trim. The old edge trim had a fairly high rail (shown below). It looked kind of nautical but didn't actually do anything because there were gaps in it and it wasn't goop/water-proof and stuff had gotten under it and damaged the underlying plywood. On the new MDF counter that I added, I painted epoxy on all the edges, including the cut out for the sink and stove. The sink cut out and counter top trim all got a healthy caulking before installation. The new teak edging was attached with cabosil/epoxy to make it water tight. That way, water can't get under any edges. The new trim isn't as tall, but will actually function to keep spills on the counter top and not seeping, creeping around.

 

[OldDan1943]

You 'done good' rebuilding the galley.
Now, you just need a decent oven and you will be home.
My counter top fiddle has gaps and yes, it will route the spills to the floor. I like it because I can scrape the spills and catch them with a rag or towel.

 

[angus99]

Like others, we had to perform some carpentry to replace the old three-burner empress. We were doing a galley re-fit anyway, so installed a 27-inch GE convection microwave and two-burner True Induction cooktop. It all works great and it’s wonderful reclaiming the counter space that the microwave took.

 

[ranger58sb]

I thought that the pressure cooker on the IST would win on efficiency, but it was close to a wash. It is easier to store and handle, but other than that, it's basically a tie. Both can be set to time and turn off automatically. The InstaPot could be set in the sink to reduce it sliding around whereas the pressure cooker just sits on the IST, but again, not that much difference.

From your pic, looks like a bigger 5- or 6-quart IP?

The smaller one we have aboard is 3-qt, I think, guessing maybe closer in size to your stove-top cooker.

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

The instant pot can also be used as a crock pot with the pressure relief valve open. That's probably the one big upside to a stovetop pressure cooker beyond easier use while underway.

 

[OldDan1943]

How does the boss like the convection oven?
Make cookies and turkey but can't broil.
Honey, start up the grill.

In reality, I doubt if I could convert the cooking times, after all theses years.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Like others, we had to perform some carpentry./QUOTE]

Your picture of the original oven area reminded me of a safety feature that many boats do not have. Your oven area was lined with sheet metal (looks like stainless) that was hidden behind the oven. Good idea. I had a wood cook stove on a liveaboard that sat in a little cubby area about the same size. In the winter, I often got the stove top hot enough to glow red. But the entire area was lined with 16 gauge copper sheet which stayed cold to the touch. It conducted heat away so fast that there wasn't a hot spot.

You can see from my earlier picture that the original "air space" behind and under my oven as a protective measure wasn't enough. The wood was scorched. Copper is now real pricey, but aluminum or galvanized would do the trick. It doesn't have to be pretty, just keep the surrounding wood below its kindling temperature.

I am planning on making a similar metal lining for the area where I place my inverter. Sure, the inverter has fans that come on when it gets hot, but the failure stories where the inverter "pops," shoot sparks, and smokes makes me feel like a metal lining, like around an oven, is cheap insurance.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

From your pic, looks like a bigger 5- or 6-quart IP?

The InstaPot in the picture is an 8 quart and the stove top pressure cooker is a 6 quart. I use the InstaPot sometimes for little home canning projects (pints and half pints). For real canning, I have a 41.5 quart commercial pressure cooker. I guess I'm into pressure.

An InstaPot can be used as a slow cooker, but any induction pot on an induction stove can be used as a slow cooker. Just set the burner at the lowest heat or temperature, whichever works best, and set the timer. My lowest temp is 150F, maybe too low and slow to cook.

Before I put in the new sink, my old one wasn't big enough to set an InstaPot down inside. The problem now would be that the cord on the InstaPot is short. Not long enough to reach the nearest 110 outlet or the inverter when set in the sink, so it would require an extension cord. Everything is ultimately related to what works best for me on my boat and the InstaPot can't quite make it.

 

[FlyWright]

Marco, check out this Instant Pot Air Fryer lid that I've been playing with for a few weeks. It fits 5-8 Qt pressure cookers.

It's like having a little 1000W, 8 Qt oven with a see-thru lid and temp range of 200*-400* with a timer. It doesn't take much power, doesn't heat the room (I'm trying it at home) and is easy to clean. It comes with a useful rack, basket and tongs. I line the pot with foil or parchment paper to catch any drippings or crumbs.

Best part is it's less than $60!

 

[ranger58sb]

How does the boss like the convection oven?
Make cookies and turkey but can't broil.

Ours broils, as did the previous two units.

The InstaPot in the picture is an 8 quart and the stove top pressure cooker is a 6 quart. I use the InstaPot sometimes for little home canning projects (pints and half pints). For real canning, I have a 41.5 quart commercial pressure cooker. I guess I'm into pressure.

Woof! Didn't know some IPs are that large; when we were first shopping for a stove-top replacement, I think 5 and 6 qt were the largest... and then eventually the 3 qt came along. Hadn't paid much attention since then, I guess...

-Chris

 

[angus99]

Like others, we had to perform some carpentry./QUOTE]

Your picture of the original oven area reminded me of a safety feature that many boats do not have. Your oven area was lined with sheet metal (looks like stainless) that was hidden behind the oven. Good idea. I had a wood cook stove on a liveaboard that sat in a little cubby area about the same size. In the winter, I often got the stove top hot enough to glow red. But the entire area was lined with 16 gauge copper sheet which stayed cold to the touch. It conducted heat away so fast that there wasn't a hot spot.

You can see from my earlier picture that the original "air space" behind and under my oven as a protective measure wasn't enough. The wood was scorched. Copper is now real pricey, but aluminum or galvanized would do the trick. It doesn't have to be pretty, just keep the surrounding wood below its kindling temperature.

I am planning on making a similar metal lining for the area where I place my inverter. Sure, the inverter has fans that come on when it gets hot, but the failure stories where the inverter "pops," shoot sparks, and smokes makes me feel like a metal lining, like around an oven, is cheap insurance.

I had some angst over that too. In addition to adding metal where the side cabinet had been, I think two other things mitigate the risk a bit. The GE oven is better insulated than the old Galley Maid. Also, I installed a 110-V blower that sucks air through the entire cavity that the GE sit in—top, bottom and sides—and discharges to the outside. It’s on the same breaker as the oven. Feels like I’m in a wind tunnel but it does the job.

 

[koliver]

Like others, we had to perform some carpentry./QUOTE]

Your picture of the original oven area reminded me of a safety feature that many boats do not have. Your oven area was lined with sheet metal (looks like stainless) that was hidden behind the oven. Good idea. I had a wood cook stove on a liveaboard that sat in a little cubby area about the same size. In the winter, I often got the stove top hot enough to glow red. But the entire area was lined with 16 gauge copper sheet which stayed cold to the touch. It conducted heat away so fast that there wasn't a hot spot.

You can see from my earlier picture that the original "air space" behind and under my oven as a protective measure wasn't enough. The wood was scorched. Copper is now real pricey, but aluminum or galvanized would do the trick. It doesn't have to be pretty, just keep the surrounding wood below its kindling temperature.

I am planning on making a similar metal lining for the area where I place my inverter. Sure, the inverter has fans that come on when it gets hot, but the failure stories where the inverter "pops," shoot sparks, and smokes makes me feel like a metal lining, like around an oven, is cheap insurance.

The metal sheet is a good conductor of excess heat, but won't protect the marine plywood sides of the cavity from the heat of the cooking appliance on the other side of it. In fact it will be almost exactly the same temperature on the side against the plywood as on the side away from the plywood.
An insulator is required, and some very good insulators are available. My own diesel stove insulation came out of the sailboat built in 1982 from which I borrowed it when swapping its diesel stove for a propane cooker and installing a new diesel stove in my trawler. It is comprised of asbestos compressed into 1/4" sheet pieces, then is covered with stainless steel panels. It insulates that very marine ply, which, on one side, separates the stove from the fridge.
Naturally, most galleys in my size of boat have the heat source positioned as close as possible to the source of cold.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Marco, check out this Instant Pot Air Fryer lid that I've been playing with for a few weeks. It fits 5-8 Qt pressure cookers.

I tried that setup (post #18). Didn't make the cut. Worked great for frozen french fries at home. Probably would work for Banquet frozen chicken. But I don't fuss with frozen food on board. And it was a failure for bread, muffins, scones, etc. It was sort of like trying to bake using only the broiler setting. Not quite that bad, but not good.

I got notice that my electrical cables were dropped off at the Post Office on Friday afternoon. Now I have to wait until Tuesday to get them. Dang.

 

[OldDan1943]

I got notice that my electrical cables were dropped off at the Post Office on Friday afternoon. Now I have to wait until Tuesday to get them. Dang.

Maybe it is time for you to open a boat parts store. Most everything is made overseas.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Didn't know some IPs are that large

When I bought ours I was in between boats. If it had been a boat specific purchase I would have gone smaller. Size matters. How big is the boat? How many people do I need to cook for? What are my other electrical draws?

Somebody mentioned having to run the genset all the time because of the induction top. I could just turn of my AC. Wait, I don't have or need AC. I could turn off the TV. Nope, don't have one. Microwave? Nope. Freezer? Nope. Blow dryer? Nope (I don't even carry a comb anymore). Hot tub? Nope. And on and on. Some people would complain that I don't have all the comforts of home. It's primative, like boating or camping. And yet I don't suffer. Or how about this; I'm suffering but I don't know it.

Another theory was that I could only use it at the dock. That would be horrible. My wife and I thought back about how many times we had stayed at distant marinas. We could think of three times. Two of those times were because of a gathering of boating friends (we usually attend and then leave to anchor out in the evening). Never had we plugged in at other than our home port. Just batteries out and back. When cruising, I've tied overnight to abandoned pilings and log rafts more than to a dock. Clearly, I'm not normal.

My boat has a genset, but in the two years I've owned it I haven't yet run it. The plan is to not run it. We shall see.