Composting toilets

[catalinajack]

I had a LectraSan - I still have it with a brand new motherboard which I will put up for sale at some point. Tearing this apart totally sucks - there are a dozen screws that hold the top housing together and frankly, is worse than a holding tank for service.

1. If you are not in Salt Water, you will need some sort of salt feeding system. The slightly brackish waters of San Francisco Bay - the middle of the Bay - was likely the cause of some of my problems

2. It still has something resembling a macerator which is not only a failure point, but could get bound-up by a user who flushes a wipe or worse

3. Parts are expensive - the motherboard is something close to $700 as I recall. The electrode pack is not exactly reliable either. The price of these two parts is more than a new unit, so it's an expensive system if anything goes wrong, which it did for me twice in the 5-or so years I had it installed.

4. If you think it's legal to pump from LS into a holding tank in an NDZ, then overboard within the 3-mile limit, think again. Once the effluent goes into the holding tank, it loses its legally protected status for overboard discharge.

All I can tell you is that for me, the LectraScan (whatever its called these days) was part of the problem, not the solution. I did not find it to be reliable, and a PITA to service.

Peter

The Lectrosan was an inferior product compared to the Electrosan. A Marina Elegance. Macerating head solves the problem.

 

[MurrayM]

People coming onto this thread to talk about how great their whiz-bang electro mega-bucks marine head works makes about as much sense as a Hummer owner going on about how great his vehicle is on a sports car forum.

 

[mvweebles]

The Lectrosan was an inferior product compared to the Electrosan. A Marina Elegance. Macerating head solves the problem.

The Raritan website states they are essentially the same product except the newer Elecrroscan has more efficient controls to modulate salt production. All I can say is I'm fed up with head/holding tank/pump out/etc problems. I've read the books and the threads and they all say I must be doing something wrong if I'm having the problems I'm having. Yet I'm able to keep boats running for 1000s of trouble-free hours but somehow I can't keep a head system odor free and reliable. I've given up. They just seem damn finneky to me. Or I'm some sort of dunce when it comes to head systems. By reading all the threads about head system issues, I have a lot of company.

I'm surprised and heartened at the number of powerboat owners with composting heads. And they are happy with them.

Peter

 

[catalinajack]

Murray, I am the guilty guy and, yes, it makes eminent sense. The entire discussion was about the comparative efficacy of "standard" pump-out systems vs a composting system. I simply introduced a third viable alternative. This is not unusual on this forum and ought not to be mocked or discouraged. As to whether an Electrosan is a reliable system perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. From the testimony here it seems the other two has its own inherent drawbacks. I merely stated that I would choose an Electrosan instead of a composting head. I'll wager that there are some folks who are quite happy with their Electrosan systems.

People coming onto this thread to talk about how great their whiz-bang electro mega-bucks marine head works makes about as much sense as a Hummer owner going on about how great his vehicle is on a sports car forum.

 

[catalinajack]

Megabucks? You mean $1,300 for an Electrosan vs $1,000 for a composting head? My goodness, hardly a difference in cost and either is certainly not in the megabucks class.

People coming onto this thread to talk about how great their whiz-bang electro mega-bucks marine head works makes about as much sense as a Hummer owner going on about how great his vehicle is on a sports car forum.

 

[MurrayM]

Murray, I am the guilty guy and, yes, it makes eminent sense. The entire discussion was about the comparative efficacy of "standard" pump-out systems vs a composting system...

Ummm, no it isn't.

Here's the OP:

A surveyor friend is urging me to swap out the heads units on my 1973 GB 36 with composting heads. Anyone have experiences with them?

So, us desiccating marine head folk should interject ourselves into every single thread looking for answers to marine head problems and gloat about how few issues we have with our heads?

That would be annoying, yes?

 

[MurrayM]

Megabucks? You mean $1,300 for an Electrosan vs $1,000 for a composting head? My goodness, hardly a difference in cost and either is certainly not in the megabucks class.

How much for the rest of the system (toilet, hoses, etc) and how much space would be freed up if that system wasn't there?

 

[rsn48]

Megabucks? You mean $1,300 for an Electrosan vs $1,000 for a composting head? My goodness, hardly a difference in cost and either is certainly not in the megabucks class.
How much for the rest of the system (hoses, through hulls, tanks, wiring, etc ) and how much space do they take up?

Part of the point of composting toilets is their simplicity and what other opportunities for stuff to be installed instead of holding tanks, etc. And no thru hulls. What I got by not going the traditional system with holding tanks, was more fuel capacity instead when I installed larger tanks. This may not be a big deal in a 50 foot trawler but it is a big deal in a 30 foot boat. Holding tanks represent lost opportunity cost.

 

[catalinajack]

No, it wouldn't but I am not interested in a debate about thread drift. Happens all the time, Murray. Get over it.

Ummm, no it isn't.

Here's the OP:



So, us desiccating marine head folk should interject ourselves into every single thread looking for answers to marine head problems and gloat about how few issues we have with our heads?

That would be annoying, yes?

 

[catalinajack]

Pretty much, I already have all that stuff on board. That's why an Electrosan may be a good choice for me while for others it may not. For example, I already have a very nice Marine Elegance macerating head, actually, two of them, with hoses. Imagine that.

How much for the rest of the system (toilet, hoses, etc) and how much space would be freed up if that system wasn't there?

 

[MurrayM]

No, it wouldn't but I am not interested in a debate about thread drift. Happens all the time, Murray. Get over it.

Right...there's too many threads to keep track of anyways and people would just get annoyed hearing about how few problems I have when they have an awful mess/stink to deal with.

Pretty much, I already have all that stuff on board. That's why an Electrosan may be a good choice for me while for others it may not. For example, I already have a very nice Marine Elegance macerating head, actually, two of them, with hoses. Imagine that.

So, what heads did you have before getting the Marine Elegance? Last ones failed? Too many recurring problems? Have your eye on the component(s) you'll be upgrading to next?

Our desiccating head will be operating exactly as it is now if our boat lasts 50 years, and then it can be pulled out, put it in an RV, and it'll last another 100 years.

 

[Art]

Right...there's too many threads to keep track of anyways and people would just get annoyed hearing about how few problems I have when they have an awful mess/stink to deal with.



So, what heads did you have before getting the Marine Elegance? Last ones failed? Too many recurring problems? Have your eye on the component(s) you'll be upgrading to next?

Our desiccating head will be operating exactly as it is now if our boat lasts 50 years, and then it can be pulled out, put it in an RV, and it'll last another 100 years.

Murray - You have great faith in plastic crapper longevity!!

 

[MurrayM]

Murray - You have great faith in plastic crapper longevity!!

Well, if it was out on the foredeck I'd be somewhat concerned about UV damage...maybe even to other things than the head

 

[catalinajack]

Right...there's too many threads to keep track of anyways and people would just get annoyed hearing about how few problems I have when they have an awful mess/stink to deal with.



So, what heads did you have before getting the Marine Elegance? Last ones failed? Too many recurring problems? Have your eye on the component(s) you'll be upgrading to next?

Our desiccating head will be operating exactly as it is now if our boat lasts 50 years, and then it can be pulled out, put it in an RV, and it'll last another 100 years.

Prior to Marine Elagance? Vacuflush. Enough said. As for how long they will last, I do not know. What I do know is that in the seven years I have been on this forum I cannot recall anyone mentioning a Marine Elegance failure. And, I really don't care that your head will last 50 or 100 years. I'll be dead in 20 years and those Marine Elegance heads will likely be still chewing up droppings as they always have.

As for emptying that two gallon urine tank, the average adult produces about 48 ounces per day. Times two adults, that means the urine tank is filled up every five days. Unless you are pouring that urine overboard illegally - no one does that, of course - that means a visit to a marina every five days, hauling the tank to a marina bathroom, and disposing of the crap pile. Whereas, with a decent-sized black water tank (40 - 50 gallons) the tank will last two to three weeks and requires only a simple dockside pumpout. So, you like your composting head for reasons important to you. Good on you. My choice is equally valid for reasons important to me.

Why oh why are you so condescending to me just because I would not make the same choice as you?

By the way, I believe that a composting head makes a boat less marketable. That's an opinion, Murray, not a verifiable fact. However, a boat with two heads, one dissipating, the other a wet head may be attractive to some buyers, not to me, but to some.

 

[BruceK]

As I understand it, putting aside issues of discourtesy and offensiveness, urinating from boat into surrounding water is not illegal.

What about, ahem,a direct dump overboard? Granted, more discourteous and more offensive but, is it illegal?

 

[FF]

"Unless you are pouring that urine overboard illegally - no one does that, of course - that means a visit to a marina every five days, hauling the tank to a marina bathroom, and disposing of the crap pile."

The urine is in a different container than the fecal matter.

Although the urine containers need to be collected fairly often, the dried out portion of the waste might need dumping once a month or so into a plastic bag for disposal in a dumpster.

As I understand the law , putting urine in a container and dumping it overboard is the no no, so copying what small and military aircraft do , a "pilot relief tube" a funnel , hose and overboard drain would be legal.

Pretty simple as the overboard drain would not need to be heated , as aircraft sometimes require.

Ladies might still need to use the urine container .

 

[Tom Adamo]

They do make biodegradable toilet paper which works great.

 

[Moby Nick]

We have TWO urine containers and so get TWICE the mileage between dumps ashore.

 

[catalinajack]

Makes sense but now you have to dedicate valuable storage space to desiccant and a spare tank and still you would not last nearly as long as many poop tank boaters before having to make a marina visit. I have not said in any of my observations that composting toilets do not make sense for some boaters but, the facts are that they have a number of significant minuses and only one plus - >> no need for a pumpout.

We have TWO urine containers and so get TWICE the mileage between dumps ashore.

 

[catalinajack]

That pilot relief tube - the user must remember to close the input before opening the output. Don't do it and risk a backdraft in the face. Same problem submariners have when using a head.

"Unless you are pouring that urine overboard illegally - no one does that, of course - that means a visit to a marina every five days, hauling the tank to a marina bathroom, and disposing of the crap pile."

The urine is in a different container than the fecal matter.

Although the urine containers need to be collected fairly often, the dried out portion of the waste might need dumping once a month or so into a plastic bag for disposal in a dumpster.

As I understand the law , putting urine in a container and dumping it overboard is the no no, so copying what small and military aircraft do , a "pilot relief tube" a funnel , hose and overboard drain would be legal.

Pretty simple as the overboard drain would not need to be heated , as aircraft sometimes require.

Ladies might still need to use the urine container .

 

[catalinajack]

Yes, a direct dump overboard is patently illegal. I suspect that many composting head owners do so as do many boaters with poop tanks pump overboard within the three-mile limit. Pure speculation on my part. Anyone disagree?

As I understand it, putting aside issues of discourtesy and offensiveness, urinating from boat into surrounding water is not illegal.

What about, ahem,a direct dump overboard? Granted, more discourteous and more offensive but, is it illegal?

 

[MurrayM]

Prior to Marine Elagance? Vacuflush. Enough said. As for how long they will last, I do not know. What I do know is that in the seven years I have been on this forum I cannot recall anyone mentioning a Marine Elegance failure. And, I really don't care that your head will last 50 or 100 years. I'll be dead in 20 years and those Marine Elegance heads will likely be still chewing up droppings as they always have.

https://www.google.com/search?q="ma...hUKEwi_uveCuPvvAhXMvZ4KHXQ0Aq8Q4dUDCAw&uact=5

As for emptying that two gallon urine tank, the average adult produces about 48 ounces per day. Times two adults, that means the urine tank is filled up every five days. Unless you are pouring that urine overboard illegally - no one does that, of course - that means a visit to a marina every five days, hauling the tank to a marina bathroom, and disposing of the crap pile. Whereas, with a decent-sized black water tank (40 - 50 gallons) the tank will last two to three weeks and requires only a simple dockside pumpout. So, you like your composting head for reasons important to you. Good on you. My choice is equally valid for reasons important to me.

No pump outs where I live on BC's north coast where there’s the lowest population density on the whole coast. It's 90 miles as the crow flies through a maze of islands and narrow channels to find open water...peeing or dumping the waste is legal mid channel on outgoing tides.

Have a look:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...824d6cbb0a7e6b!8m2!3d54.049366!4d-128.6283529

Why oh why are you so condescending to me just because I would not make the same choice as you?

I do believe you dropped the condescension gauntlet first.

By the way, I believe that a composting head makes a boat less marketable. That's an opinion, Murray, not a verifiable fact. However, a boat with two heads, one dissipating, the other a wet head may be attractive to some buyers, not to me, but to some.

To each their own, which brings up the point: why not start your own thread and leave this discussion to desiccating heads?

 

[Art]

Human-Waste... "how to properly handle it" conundrum:

Imagine that a large %age of boaters and RVers [say 50% or more] utilize compost toilets.

These many millions of people dump all their crap into residential garbage cans and commercial dumpsters.

Contents of the cans and dumpsters [then containing considerable human crap] get deposited into land fills.

Rain happens... land fills get soaked and remain wet below their surface.

Wet land fills will act somewhat similar to wet-sewage treatment plants... however, and very importantly, with completely uncontrolled sequences of ongoing wet crap mold and human waste breakdown-seepage into land fill adjacent areas.

Then imagine 50 years pass by... and, just like so many other environmental-ruination health inequities we are leaving for, passing onto our descendants... thousands of damp/wet [sewage-like, yet fully unmanaged and completely untreated/uncontrolled] wet human-crap containing and human-crap decomposing land fill adjacent areas become restricted; wherein humans can no longer frequent near to.

OK - If you're still reading by this point... I'll make my point!

No matter if it's the uncontrolled dumping of wastes/contaminants from nuclear plants, exhaust contents from vehicles, chemicals from all sorts of manufacturing, emittances from types of fossil fuel electric plants, aquifer contaminations from fracking procedures ... OR... the HANDLING of HUMAN WASTE! What clearly sets on civilization's table is the absolute need to clean-up our act and efficiently/correctly deal with what we humans create.

Throwing tens of millions of bags human-crap into garbage cans and dumpsters, for bulldozing into land fills and then getting very wet under the surface, is just another example of humans trying to hide from the reality/fact that we must get inventive enough to protect the future wellbeing of our generations oncoming.

Got to ask - If we [currently existing generations] don't soon figure ways to protect future ecosystem conditions for the betterment of civilization... Who Will?

With that said: I see many types of socially uplifting, productivity attractive, health expanding, employment increasing, educationally enthralling and financially profitable availabilities if the age-old general "bent" of civilization can be redirected from use, abuse, destroy and simply dump-off [i.e., hide our contaminants-to-nature as best we can].

Civilization's redirected "bent" needs to become "Save Earth's Ecosystem" for the good of humanity and all other Earth bound living entities. This can be done!

But, such a big task it is!

Nuff Said!

 

[MurrayM]

Hi Art,

Good points and we should all be thinking long term, however, how much of a percentage increase in crap going to landfills would there be if 50% of boaters and RV'ers was added to the crap from 82,711,305 dogs and over 4,000,000 babies that's going there already in the USA and Canada, not to mention all the old fart/codger diapers and litter from over 100,000,000 cats?

*Numbers via quick Google searches

 

[Art]

Hi Art,

Good points and we should all be thinking long term, however, how much of a percentage increase in crap going to landfills would there be if 50% of boaters and RV'ers was added to the crap from 82,711,305 dogs and over 4,000,000 babies that's going there already in the USA and Canada, not to mention all the old fart/codger diapers and litter from over 100,000,000 cats?

*Numbers via quick Google searches

Than God for Google - LOL, sort of!

Good points Murray. All I can say is... "IT" [human waste handling] is a mess! Akin to many, many messes humanity created and must clean up... before situations substantially decrease the wellbeing of civilization.

No other living entity I know of has ever polluted the Earth to this point of ecosystem/environment/climate failure. We did "IT" and we made it get this bad. We are primarily continuing to to it as things get worse. And, although we talk plenty, and try somewhat to correct our eco-systemic offenses... the global "bent" of civilization must turn toward the direction of "Save Earth's Ecosystem". We simply must!!

 

[ronobrien]

He is making this suggestion as an alternative to the smell associated with a holding tank. I failed to explain that I just bought the boat and it has no holding tank currently. I was speaking with him about installing a holding tank and this was his suggestion. Thanks for your reply.

 

[mvweebles]

He is making this suggestion as an alternative to the smell associated with a holding tank. I failed to explain that I just bought the boat and it has no holding tank currently. I was speaking with him about installing a holding tank and this was his suggestion. Thanks for your reply.

I don't recall anyone mentioning Peggie Hall's book on head systems. If you don't already have it, consider purchasing, especially if you're planning on going a traditional marine head system. She has some good pointers in there, and many folks are very pleased with their head systems (I'm just not one of them). She has some pointers on where to locate the holding tank, best hose to use, even what type of TP to use.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-...rds=peggie+hall&qid=1618331500&s=books&sr=1-1

 

[MurrayM]

Than God for Google - LOL, sort of!

Good points Murray. All I can say is... "IT" [human waste handling] is a mess! Akin to many, many messes humanity created and must clean up... before situations substantially decrease the wellbeing of civilization.

No other living entity I know of has ever polluted the Earth to this point of ecosystem/environment/climate failure. We did "IT" and we made it get this bad. We are primarily continuing to to it as things get worse. And, although we talk plenty, and try somewhat to correct our eco-systemic offenses... the global "bent" of civilization must turn toward the direction of "Save Earth's Ecosystem". We simply must!!

Read on another thread here on TF that humans are the cockroaches of the mammalian world, with no need to evolve and our numbers can increase explosively.

Ouch!

 

[Art]

Read on another thread here on TF that humans are the cockroaches of the mammalian world, with no need to evolve and our numbers can increase explosively.

Ouch!

Although, a really smart cockroach, in any sort of similarity - at that!... Who could, can and had better figure a way out of the many messes we have created from our actions during the last few centuries.

This is a Soon-Must-Do situation. "Save Earth's Ecosystem!"

Earth's fragile, natural, millions of year-developed ecosystem has been put on its heels by us during just the last 300 years. Yup... that's correct... in a few hundred years humanity upended the patient life giving and life supporting multi million year evolution of Earth's Nature.

In regard to statements [paraphrased from another person's previous post]:

1. "... humans are the cockroaches of the mammalian world, with no need to evolve..." Needing to or not - Human evolution consistently proceeds in physical as well as in thought-increased means. Our library of knowledge as well as how to more quickly and accurately gain more knowledge is constantly increasing [i.e., evolving].

2. "... our numbers can increase explosively." Boy, Say Howdy!! Is that ever correct. Therein and therefrom creating another mess - over population!

IMO, there will become a rocky ride during the next several decades... while we try to save our future descendants wellbeing and lives.

 

[socalrider]

I think of all the ecological challenges we are facing, organic human waste in landfills is far far far down the list. Think of all the other stuff that goes into landfills - batteries, electronics, pharmaceutical products, etc. That's why the are controlled (liners, measurements, etc.).

i fully agree with your overall sentiments, and have dedicated my career for the last 25 years to advancing the transition to renewable energy. I just think this particular concern is misplaced. Nature's pretty good at dealing with poop so long as it's not too concentrated, and landfills are actually pretty decent in this country at least.