Hippocampus
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
- Messages
- 4,178
- Location
- Plymouth
- Vessel Name
- Hippocampus
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 42
Just poking fun. Gentleman definitely sit to pee.
On a sailboat under sail the head was 90* to centerline. Using the head only worked on one of the tacks, where you could sit back as opposed to leaned forward.Anything is better than a true head. Imagine going out on the bowsprit hanging on in a seaway and taking a dump.
I like a head where you can brace against the closed door, a locker or bulkhead if it’s sporty. Wonder if the diversion in desiccating heads work in such conditions.
I'm in the marine repair business. You'll never need to call for a repair on a composting toilet. I fix boat toilets regularly. No fun. But the composting can be a pain as well. We have 2 Natures Heads, and some days im really frustrated. The urine tank has no signal it's full. Then its a messy problem as you will spill urine just trying to remove the tank to empty it. If you have guests it can fill quickly and be overflowing into the solids tank. Also emptying the solids would be too hard for my wife. The lower part when full is pretty heavy. We'll be buying another boat in a few months haven't decided which way to go.
I don't have to own an outhouse or a porta-potti to know that I don't want either system in my home or boat.
No one has to own a composting/dessicating head to legitimately say its not for them. The pros and cons are pretty clear and most of us have had experience with the other options.Its great that these things have been a good solution for many, and it's okay to know that they aren't everyone's cup of tea.
So says the gentleman with a $2-$3 million motor yacht. I would be surprised if you have ever lifted "finger one" to maintain anything on your yacht. In your situation I would pay people to do all work for me. So I had this epiphany that your holding tank, outhouses, porti potties and composting heads are basically the same. They collect, hold and transfer (CHT) your sewage. No difference. They all apply the same basic process. Actually, thinking further a holding tank system is more akin to an outhouse or porta potti than a composting head. The former systems create sewage, the composting head does not. It separates urine and desiccates feces.
That was my experience too when I asked around. But I think there's some underlying pieces that lessen the endorsement because the enthusiasts are a bit self-selecting.We do not have a composting head.
I have never talked with a cruiser who had a compost head who was not thrilled with it. I've never spoken with one who changed back to marine plumbing from compost.
Are there any among this group? (who changed back to marine plumbing from a compost head?)
Frankly, if it weren't for pumpouts, I would have been much closer to going the Marine Elegance route. A gigantic holding tank would help too, but I do remind myself that holding tank issues manifest when the tank is full. Dealing with 200g of sewage would be a pain.
That was my experience too when I asked around. But I think there's some underlying pieces that lessen the endorsement because the enthusiasts are a bit self-selecting.
First, not everyone would even consider a CH, so those that do ultimately go that route have a certain acceptance built in.
Second, the folks who consider a CH have been driven to find an alternative. Could be bad experiences like myself and others. Could be they have a small boat where a standard marine head system does not fit and operate well. Or just really small holding tank capacity.
Finally, they tend not to have many guests.
Frankly, if it weren't for pumpouts, I would have been much closer to going the Marine Elegance route. A gigantic holding tank would help too, but I do remind myself that holding tank issues manifest when the tank is full. Dealing with 200g of sewage would be a pain.
In the end, the right head depends on a lot of factors. I would certainly do a CH again, and best setup would be two head boat, one CH, the other conventional. And I think incineration is a strong concept- with exception of power requirements, may have the fewest drawbacks. Odd that a selection is made because it sucks less than everything else.
Peter
I appreciate the review and agree with your decision if comparing compositing to any head except the Marine Elegance which is really in a class of its own.
I’ve had many heads over the year - including a Lavac - but nothing comes close to being as trouble free and pleasant - especially if using fresh water flush.
My primary problem with composting is that it’s difficult to ask guests or children to use them. We enjoy having friends and family join us. A “No TP in the head rule” is just too Captain Bligh for me. The Elegance is about as close to a home toilet experience as you can get. No valves. No hand pumps. No counting strokes. Good rinsing action in the bowl. If you use the computerized control it also uses half the water as a hand pumped head (or “hold the button” electric) - guests tend to pump a lot. The holding tank fills at half the speed.
Informative thread. Find it interesting several posters have suggested using two techniques. Either a ME with holding tank and a CH. Makes sense use the CH coastally and the ME offshore. However for a long term cruising boat I’m curious if anyone can list downside fora ME and an incinolet. With a Charlie Noble or similar device venting is a non issue. When plugged in electrical draw also not troublesome. A big downside of traditional or incinerating electrical heads is they need electricity. CH do not to my understanding. However now that LiFePO banks are available can see if you have a genset, large solar array can see a boat with two house banks not be limited by incinerating. You can store many of the paper liners in a small area. The residual is dust and sterile so disposal a non issue.
No modern indoor outhouse for me, please respect that too.
All good PeterI respect your dedication and purpose.
... the excellent large and well-designed camper type toilet. ...
Are you referring to a porta-potti or what amounts to cr*ping in a bucket?
A high tech version of cr*ping in a bucket is the Laveo Dry Flush system.
FWIW, on my boat I use a porta-potti for its simplicity and convenience of dumping.
Absolutely! Never a bottom outlet.That scenario is why I refuse to have a holding tank with a bottom mounted outlet. All methods of emptying should be via a dip tube from the top. In other words, if the tank is full, no plumbing work or situation should ever lead to waste exiting the tank when you don't want it to.
Peter, absolutely correct but, in terms of relative risk, the Marine Elegance is far superior to any other non-outhouse type system, ESPECIALLY a vacuflush. We have two ME heads, one in the aft cabin and one forward. The aft cabin head is used only for urine because the run to the holding tank is about 30 feet. The forward head is about one foot higher than the tank with the hose being only about 6 feet long so poop can reach the tank with a minimum of flushing.I hope my posts have been respectful, objective, and honest about my experiences and the features/functions of each system. I don't think it judgmental to say that holding tank systems are not always trouble-free as evidenced by the frequency of posts on forums including TF. Nor is it judgmental to point out that holding tanks require pump-out that can be a PITA; and that NDZs are another potential challenge.
I also hope I've been clear that in my opnion, the use-case for Compost Head is not universal nor is it particularly expansive. But there most definitely is a use-case just as there is for incinerating. Functionally, there are clear limits to what a Compost Head can do and circumstances for which they'd be an appropriate choice. For folks in that use-case category who were curious but didn't know much about Compost Heads, I hope this thread has been helpful and informative. Would be a shame if there are folks who would go with a Compost Head except they didn't know about them. While I find it regretable, I accept that there are strong negative reactions to Compost Heads that are deal-killers and prevent even consideration of them.
In the end, I will ask for reciprocol respect and recognition that there are alternative thought processes out there; and further, that the answer to every head problem is not as simple as "Buy a Marine Elegance -- and buy better sanitation hose." There are other ways a conventional holding tank system can go south, some of them can be the design and configuration of the system in the first place was lousy.
Peter