Champlain Canal planning

[SoWhat]

I'm no legal beagle but my understanding is states can not impose regulations that are contrary to federal reqmts. I believe that they are permitted to impose additional regulations so long as they are consistent with federal regs.
Interior lakes and canals that are navigable waterways are NDZs. States clarifying their regulations re how to satisfy the NDZ is fair game AFAIK.

If you look at the NYS regs they are radically different for Lake George... Lk Champlain closest neighbor, because of the need to conform to fed regs on Lk Champlain.

Lake George is a tiny pond compared to Champlain so they are far stricter in environmental issues. George requires an inspection before launching any trailered boat.

Federal law preempts state law if there is a conflict. Federal law doesn't establish laws against taking buttons (fossils) at Button Bay State Park in Vergennes. State law prohibits it. Same with environmental regs. States (esp VT) have numerous regulations.

I agree that holding tank disconnects may not be aggressively monitored but if you are boarded then it's a stiff fine.

 

[catalinajack]

NY Regulation is clear. Maybe you can be a test case. Just claim sovereign citizenship. I assume you ignore all state safety boating regulations on federal waters as well.


§ 33-d. Sanitary facilities aboard crafts on Lake Champlain. It shall
be unlawful for any owner or operator of any craft upon Lake Champlain,
its tributaries or outlets, to operate any craft equipped with a marine
toilet which in any manner discharges sewage into the waters of said
lake, its tributaries or outlets. All marine toilets on any such craft
shall also incorporate or be equipped with a holding tank which can be
carried or pumped ashore for disposal according to the regulations of
local boards of health or county or state health agencies. Any holding
tank designed so as to provide for an optional means of discharge to the
waters on which the craft is operating shall have the discharge openings
sealed shut and any discharge lines, pipes or hoses shall be removed or
disconnected and stored while operating on the waters of said lake, its
tributaries or outlets. Failure to comply with the provisions of this
section shall be a violation punishable by a fine not to exceed two
hundred fifty dollars or by imprisonment of not more than fifteen days
or by both such fine and imprisonment.

How nice. What part of Federal preemption do you not understand? And, no, I do not ignore any state boating regulations. Bottom line is that the state regulation is inoperative (Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution); therefore, I am not ignoring anything.

Under the doctrine of*preemption, which is based on the Supremacy Clause, federal law preempts state law, even when the laws conflict.

Does that help?

 

[Bacchus]

Latest Notice to Mariners re Champlain Canal... worth of note!
https://www.canals.ny.gov/wwwapps/tas/notices/ntm.aspx?id=1860

Also worth signing up for these notices at NY Canals, if you are traveling the canals

 

[Cigatoo]

My experience from cruising lake Champlain for 2 months last summer is that it's like boating under the influence. The law is enforced when you screw up.

My impression is that during the summer, there are probably thousands of boats on lake Champlain. They're not going to check until you screw up and they're probably ok with a secured seacock on the discharge until you act like an a$$hole. Tourism is a big part of their economy, enforcement seemed to be focused on the trouble makers, not the polite tourists.

Ted

Common sense Ted. As usual

 

[SoWhat]

How nice. What part of Federal preemption do you not understand? And, no, I do not ignore any state boating regulations. Bottom line is that the state regulation is inoperative (Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution); therefore, I am not ignoring anything.

Under the doctrine of*preemption, which is based on the Supremacy Clause, federal law preempts state law, even when the laws conflict.

Does that help?

That is exactly what I said. "Federal law preempts state law if there is a conflict." If federal law sets a speed limit of 10 mph on Lake Champlain, then VT can not supersede that by establishing a 20mph limit. If federal law does does set any speed limit, then VT is free to do whatever they deem reasonable.

 

[CharlieO.]

Thanks Don, the double draining will get us tuned up for the rest of the canal.

I'll sign up to get the notifications too.

 

[OldDan1943]

Latest Notice to Mariners re Champlain Canal... worth of note!
https://www.canals.ny.gov/wwwapps/tas/notices/ntm.aspx?id=1860

Also worth signing up for these notices at NY Canals, if you are traveling the canals

I suspect it is too late to keep all the bad stuff out when they first filled the locks but they can have fun.

 

[BobMc]

As far as air draft, if my memory is good you'll make it as far as Waterford before needing to drop the mast (so you can just do it at a night stop). I think you've got 25 feet of clearance up to that point.

If it were me I'd drop the mast before Troy. I remember hitting the antenna on my old Mainship on one of the first 2 bridges after the Troy lock.
the 3 times I went that route with the Albin I lowered the mast before Troy just in case.

If memory serves me correctly, the bridge just north of the Troy lock is only 22 feet, unless it's been raised in the last few years. Check your chart carefully. I very distinctly remember coming out of the Troy lock heading north and having to mark time while we lowered the mast (22.8 feet) on our DeFever 41.

 

[CharlieO.]

Thanks Bob, I plan on lowering the mast before Troy just to be sure. I have one antenna that is pretty tall that I’m going to remove, it is not hooked up to anything. My other antenna is a quick drop from the flybridge.

 

[BobMc]

Thanks Bob, I plan on lowering the mast before Troy just to be sure. I have one antenna that is pretty tall that I’m going to remove, it is not hooked up to anything. My other antenna is a quick drop from the flybridge.

I just checked my chart for that area, and sure enough, that bridge just north of Troy lock is 20 (TWO-ZERO) feet, not 22 (shouldn't trust memory for serious things like that).

 

[alormaria]

Drop the mast at the Troy town docks. Then go have dinner at Browns.

 

[backinblue]

At normal pool level, minimum bridge clearance is 17 feet 0 inches at bridge C-28. At maximum pool level minimum bridge clearance is found at Crocker’s Reef Guard Gate with a clearance of 14 feet 2.4 inches.

 

[CharlieO.]

Drop the mast at the Troy town docks. Then go have dinner at Browns.

Thanks Al, Browns is great and we also like Dinosaur BBQ. Definitely considered a stop at the Troy docks so we can start fresh and early for locks.

 

[backinblue]

Cna't go wrong with Dino bbq. I've been to several, but not in Troy. Syracuse is still my favorite.

 

[CharlieO.]

Day 1

Day 1 now is an overnight at Kingston City Marina on Rondout Creek

The Museum had no space for us so no side tie.

We will most likely be in a slip arriving sometime between slack tide and incoming tide.

Any local knowledge?

Day 2 we will tie up to the Troy City docks to shop the waterfront farmers market, I believe you can tie up for free for 2 hrs, then we will decide if we want to stay there for the night or go through the Troy federal lock to tie up at the Waterford town dock.

Thanks

 

[alormaria]

Waterford is always crowded (cause it's really nice). Troy is for the more discriminating boater. Good breakfast place in Waterford though. Right on the main street.

 

[CharlieO.]

Waterford is always crowded (cause it's really nice). Troy is for the more discriminating boater. Good breakfast place in Waterford though. Right on the main street.

I believe Waterford is free docking also and $10 for electric. We will decide once we get to Troy whether we want to stay in Troy or do our first lock at the end of a long day and head to Waterford. We can check the webcams at the Waterford dock to help with our decision.

 

[Bacchus]

I believe Waterford is free docking also and $10 for electric. We will decide once we get to Troy whether we want to stay in Troy or do our first lock at the end of a long day and head to Waterford. We can check the webcams at the Waterford dock to help with our decision.

I would not be affraid of Troy lock even being your first.
Having one under your experience belt and time to sit relax and talk about as prep for other locks could be an advantage.
Troy lock is different than others in NY. At Waterford you have the added advantage of being able to walk to the lock(s) and see one before hand.
As mentioned the breakfast place is a landmark.

 

[CharlieO.]

Good Morning Don,
We did at the end of last season walk and check out the flight of locks in Waterford. I am the kind of person that likes to do a lot of research and when I can, put eyes to any upcoming new experiences so I can get general idea of what I'm getting into.

I've already run all 4 sections of my trip thru Navionics and did the trip planning guide through boatingresources.us - that site takes tides and currents into account. I've looked at the entire route through google maps. Just time for us to put our plan into action.

 

[Bacchus]

Good Morning Don,
We did at the end of last season walk and check out the flight of locks in Waterford. I am the kind of person that likes to do a lot of research and when I can, put eyes to any upcoming new experiences so I can get general idea of what I'm getting into.

I've already run all 4 sections of my trip thru Navionics and did the trip planning guide through boatingresources.us - that site takes tides and currents into account. I've looked at the entire route through google maps. Just time for us to put our plan into action.

You areca man of my heart... My feeling is the pre- planning is a fun part of the whole boating experience.
Nothing like being prepared!

 

[backinblue]

I am also big on pre-planning, but that is not the fun part. The fun part is the doing where all that pre-planning pays off! I have no doubt Charlie will have a fun and amazing experience in the end.

 

[OldDan1943]

Sometimes it is more fun to have the lead boat do the planning and then follow along behind.

 

[Bacchus]

Sometimes it is more fun to have the lead boat do the planning and then follow along behind.

Yup
We have boating friends that certainly fall into that category.
They will only venture out when and where we are going but seem to enjoy the experience. They frequently have no idea where they are but don't seem to care.
Different strokes...
Also agree with backinblue it is more fun actually doing it but it is especially rewarding to have things go according to plan.

 

[Unclematt]

Great information on going to Lake Champlain. I never knew about boatingresources.us I love getting all this guidance and I will start using it. Is anyone out there planning to make the trip from the Hudson to the Lake the week of June 13 thru 17? I am leaving Shady Harbor Marina on the 13th.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yup
We have boating friends that certainly fall into that category.
They will only venture out when and where we are going but seem to enjoy the experience. They frequently have no idea where they are but don't seem to care.
Different strokes...
Also agree with backinblue it is more fun actually doing it but it is especially rewarding to have things go according to plan.

Follow along and save the route and notes for future use. WINK