Can the Cruise Industry survive ?

[OldDan1943]

Brian, I agree and that means, personal responsibly from the CEO and the CFO all the way down the chain of command on the ship involved, captain, 1st mate, chief engineer, navigator etc all the way down to the guy who twisted the valve permitting the discharge not in compliance.
Do this once or twice and the personal economic punishment just make break this abuse and violation of the regulations and laws.

 

[sunchaser]

And then there is the arrogance and blindness to reality that somehow made Holland America think it was going to be able to get ships with Covid 19 present through the Panama Canal and then into Fort Lauderdale, so now they're stuck. Somehow they still thought the rules just didn't and wouldn't apply to them and meanwhile the passengers are stranded and again victimized with the number infected increasing daily.

It would be interesting to know when the passengers boarded. If after say March 2 or so the cruise ship business was already in deep dodo.

 

[Insequent]

It would be interesting to know when the passengers boarded. If after say March 2 or so the cruise ship business was already in deep dodo.

Departed Punta Arena March 14.

Four deaths on board. Passengers confined to cabins are struggling, but crew have it worse:
The wife of one of the 85 crew members in isolation with flu-like symptoms on the Zaandam expressed concerns about the conditions for staff.

“Those who are confined were quarantined in a five square metre cabin, given only three small pieces of bread and a small amount of cereals,” she said, adding there is a lack of water, fresh air and two people are confined to each cabin room.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...harbour-from-stranded-cruise-ship-near-panama

 

[slowgoesit]

Carnival has form. Something a problem? Just ditch it! Ooops! We got caught again......
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...ng-pollution-into-oceans-20190604-p51uaj.html

Its time for personal liability for fines, cleanup and remediation costs for the Boards, Senior Executives & Management and Ship's Captains. And no coverage by insurance for such offences. Behaviour can be changed with the right encouragement.

Interesting, the $28 million in fines were accessed for Carnival Cruise Lines' violations to their agreement to clean up their act since 2016, when there were fined $40 million. . . . . . I wonder how much money they've saved in the last 4 years by not spending the money to clean up their over 100 cruise ships operating under 9 cruise brands? Figuring just 100 ships (they have more) over 4 years, that fine averages out to only $5,833.33 per month, per ship. How much do you think it would have cost per month to comply with the agreements? Sounds like the Carnival got a DEAL!
$28 million makes great headlines, but the truth is that they will figure in that $5,833.33 per month, per ship into their normal operating expenses. It will be covered by selling passage to a few more passengers per ship per year! Hell, they can probably even write the fine off as a business expense! In situations like this, follow the money. It this case $28 million in fines amounts to even less than a slap on the wrist.

 

[SteveK]

The ship is now allowed to pass through the canal headed for Miami.
Will Florida allow it to off load passengers? what about the 85 crew in isolation?

 

[AdkChris]

I would be surprised if they ever pay the fine. Seems very few companies ever pay their fines. The lawyer fees are about the same for endless appeals whether the fine is $28 or $28,000,000.

 

[kthoennes]

Oddly, we're still getting piles of cruise marketing emails and when I search most cruise sites (the cruise lines' own sites and third party booking sites) I don't notice that prices have budged much at all. Tried to find a transatlantic on the QM2 for mid to late summer, prices seem to be the same or maybe even a little higher. On the other hand they probably haven't had much time to think about restarting operations and future bookings and a lot of their marketing emails are probably on a mindless auto-pilot cycle.

 

[OldDan1943]

kthoenness, promise not to tell, even after I had gone on one cruise, my travel agent has not sent me info on another cruise. Shhhhhhhh

 

[BandB]

We've got cruise ships stacked on top of cruise ships right now. In addition to all those currently in the Bahamas, two or three dozen, we now have 8 cruise ships docked in Miami Port and 8 anchored at the Port Anchorage, 3 Docked in Port Everglades and 2 Anchored and waiting in the Anchorage. So that's 21 cruise ships either in Port or anchored just outside in South Florida. 6 Docked and 1 Anchored in Port Canaveral. Tampa has a few too plus many still headed our way. I saw two Carnival ships that left Miami on Tuesday and returning tomorrow.

 

[BandB]

The ship is now allowed to pass through the canal headed for Miami.
Will Florida allow it to off load passengers? what about the 85 crew in isolation?

Probably will be held in anchorage and more testing and then those who are positive brought to shore first. Governor of FL blaming NY, NJ and Connecticut when over half the cases in FL are in South FL and if you have to blame someone, blame the cruise lines. Not dissimilar to Northern California.

 

[Woodland Hills]

We've got cruise ships stacked on top of cruise ships right now. In addition to all those currently in the Bahamas, two or three dozen, we now have 8 cruise ships docked in Miami Port and 8 anchored at the Port Anchorage, 3 Docked in Port Everglades and 2 Anchored and waiting in the Anchorage. So that's 21 cruise ships either in Port or anchored just outside in South Florida. 6 Docked and 1 Anchored in Port Canaveral. Tampa has a few too plus many still headed our way. I saw two Carnival ships that left Miami on Tuesday and returning tomorrow.

There are 2 Norwegians and a Carnival tied up on the St Johns River.

 

[BruceK]

There are 25-30 ships off the coast of Australia, incl QE2. They just seem to be hanging around. I wonder why, it`s not like they`ll be starting new cruises soon.
3 crew were just evacuated from Ruby Princess for treatment onshore,so I`m thinking they are very sick and need our help. That ship docked at 2.29am in Sydney and discharged all pax in an an unstaged disembarkation,which I suspect flummoxed authorities.
Carnival Spirit,which we`ve been on twice, docked for refueling. I feel for the crew, the restaurant desk lady remembered my partner on our second cruise. I`m willing to support the crews, if not the cruise lines which have behaved abominably.

 

[sbu22]

I don't know the lines, but 4 tied up in New Orleans and 2 in Gulfport. Nickle-dime to what's in Florida, but it all adds up.

 

[SteveK]

That ship now heading through panama has off loaded healthy passengers to a sister ship. Maybe they are learning.

 

[slowgoesit]

That ship now heading through panama has off loaded healthy passengers to a sister ship. Maybe they are learning.

By healthy, I assume you mean asymptomatic, but it's already been shown that asymptomatic people can have the CV, and be contagious . . . so I'm not sure that was the brightest move

 

[SteveK]

By healthy, I assume you mean asymptomatic, but it's already been shown that asymptomatic people can have the CV, and be contagious . . . so I'm not sure that was the brightest move

I am not saying anything. As you suggest, they may be responding to those before kept on board who caught it after no symptoms for weeks. Like the lawsuit in San Francisco Princess boat.

 

[Woodland Hills]

That ship now heading through panama has off loaded healthy passengers to a sister ship. Maybe they are learning.

Great they seeded a second ship with the virus.

 

[sunchaser]

FL's Governor has rejected the said cruise ship and on water transferred passengers a FL landing. What a mess and industry created.

 

[BandB]

FL's Governor has rejected the said cruise ship and on water transferred passengers a FL landing. What a mess and industry created.

FL's governor is rejecting everything and nothing. He actually said he didn't want it landing. He has no control of it whatsoever. Miami and Fort Lauderdale Ports have to deal with it, along with USCG. Likely it will be required to anchor for an extended time and provisions delivered to it plus very ill patients evacuated to land. That's been the pattern.

He said the area’s hospital beds need to be saved for residents and not “foreign nationals.” I guess he also considers those from other states to be foreign nationals as most passengers are US citizens.

I'm as much against the cruise lines as anyone here but denying them medical help is not something I support. I know South Florida has suffered because of them and I'd bill them many many millions of dollars, probably even billions. However, their passengers have been through more than enough and I'd save any who needed saving and then quarantine the rest in an anchorage while testing every passenger.

Latest, he also banned two major newspapers in the state from entering the capitol.

 

[OldDan1943]

A question not yet asked.
Who is paying to quarantine these folks in the hospital or other health care facilities ?
Most of the crew is too poor to pay, some other foreigners are too poor to pay and perhaps our own US based health insurances will refuse to pay based upon some yet to be discovered clause?

 

[BandB]

A question not yet asked.
Who is paying to quarantine these folks in the hospital or other health care facilities ?
Most of the crew is too poor to pay, some other foreigners are too poor to pay and perhaps our own US based health insurances will refuse to pay based upon some yet to be discovered clause?

Wifey B: Next you'll be talking about tv ratings.

 

[OldDan1943]

Come on Wifey, let's bring just little bit of real life into the discussion. Hospitals like to be paid.... and the hospitals seem to develop an attitude if you dont pay. LOL

Hey maybe to hospitals will quarantine you to your car with porto-pots provided and food delivered to your car?
Ah but you can park your car in the hospital parking structure, for a fee. CHUCKLE

 

[BruceK]

Sydney evacuated 3 more CV patients off Ruby Princess overnight. 2 pregnant women were also evacuated, plus someone with a different illness, unsure if they were from Ruby Princess or another ship.
Australia has told the numerous cruise ships to leave Australian waters and return to their home ports. I don`t think it is happening.
Total CV diagnosed pax off Ruby Princess are now about 270. An unwelcome and significant contribution and load on our facilities.
In my state, NSW, you can only leave home if you come within 4 exceptions. Work if you can`t work from home, essential shopping, medical, and exercise. No more than 2 people in company unless resident family members. Those aged over 70 can only leave home for exercise, though medical must be allowed I think. States differ on this.

Anyone arriving from overseas goes into compulsory Army/Police controlled quarantine for 14 days. There was much abuse of the voluntary system. Defaulters are being fined.

Is it worth it? Daily diagnosis numbers in my state have fallen for last 3 days. Looks like it is. Supermarkets are setting up an $80 delivered "Basics Box" of supplies if you can`t go out shopping for supplies, they select the contents. Whoopee, it includes TP.

 

[BandB]

Come on Wifey, let's bring just little bit of real life into the discussion. Hospitals like to be paid.... and the hospitals seem to develop an attitude if you dont pay. LOL

Hey maybe to hospitals will quarantine you to your car with porto-pots provided and food delivered to your car?
Ah but you can park your car in the hospital parking structure, for a fee. CHUCKLE

Wifey B: There are going to be a lot of businesses who like to get paid, having difficulty making that happen. I think with the stimulus bill hospitals will be ok....until....the lawsuits hit, from patients and employees. I'm afraid then it's hard to figure it out.

 

[OldDan1943]

Wifey B: There are going to be a lot of businesses who like to get paid, having difficulty making that happen. I think with the stimulus bill hospitals will be ok....until....the lawsuits hit, from patients and employees. I'm afraid then it's hard to figure it out.

Like most things in life, it will be figured out in hind sight

 

[BruceK]

The Ruby Princess disembarkation debacle in Sydney continues. 440 infections identified so far, and 5 deaths. The ship has been directed to leave Australian waters and refuses to comply,citing their need to rely on our medical facilities in the event of need. Having twice unloaded 3 infected crew,I infer there are more crew cases onboard they are trying to manage and which they will dump on Australia if the need arises, who we will of course treat in accordance with our duty.
440 infected cases is 10% of our national diagnosed cases. It is a disgraceful episode, no way to thank Australia for the profits the ships have made from our citizens. They are US ships,the USA should step in to make them safe and repatriate the unfortunate crews. When this is over Australians will remember what happened when they sit down to choose a holiday.

 

[BandB]

The Ruby Princess disembarkation debacle in Sydney continues. 440 infections identified so far, and 5 deaths. The ship has been directed to leave Australian waters and refuses to comply,citing their need to rely on our medical facilities in the event of need. Having twice unloaded 3 infected crew,I infer there are more crew cases onboard they are trying to manage and which they will dump on Australia if the need arises, who we will of course treat in accordance with our duty.
440 infected cases is 10% of our national diagnosed cases. It is a disgraceful episode, no way to thank Australia for the profits the ships have made from our citizens. They are US ships,the USA should step in to make them safe and repatriate the unfortunate crews. When this is over Australians will remember what happened when they sit down to choose a holiday.

Not a US Ship. Registry is Hamilton, Bermuda. Was based in Los Angeles but in 2019 switched base to Australia. For the record, there are no US Princess ships even though we've been plagued by them on the west coast and east coast. Quite a few in South Florida right now. First major hit to the US was Diamond Princess in Northern California.

 

[slowgoesit]

The Ruby Princess disembarkation debacle in Sydney continues. 440 infections identified so far, and 5 deaths. The ship has been directed to leave Australian waters and refuses to comply,citing their need to rely on our medical facilities in the event of need. Having twice unloaded 3 infected crew,I infer there are more crew cases onboard they are trying to manage and which they will dump on Australia if the need arises, who we will of course treat in accordance with our duty.
440 infected cases is 10% of our national diagnosed cases. It is a disgraceful episode, no way to thank Australia for the profits the ships have made from our citizens. They are US ships,the USA should step in to make them safe and repatriate the unfortunate crews. When this is over Australians will remember what happened when they sit down to choose a holiday.

Impound the ship since it refuses to leave as ordered. Quarantine all pax, treat ill, sell ship to pay costs incurred. It would make a TERRIFIC artificial reef!

 

[AdkChris]

I like the idea of charging corporations for the costs they inflict on the rest of us. If you read Wealth of Nations it sounds like something Adam Smith would approve of.

 

[BruceK]

Impound the ship since it refuses to leave as ordered. Quarantine all pax, treat ill, sell ship to pay costs incurred. It would make a TERRIFIC artificial reef!

Except we don`t want to have to treat all the sick crew.There were more last night from it and others. These ships are sponging on our obligations to help their sick and are capable of overwhelming our hospitals and denying our citizens treatment.

As it`s not a US ship(see B & B`s post)I guess no one here will mind if the Navy get involved. Though I`m thinking it`s a US ship operating under a flag of convenience. Let`s see who gets upset if we aim big guns at it. Eh Donald?