California newbies - PNW or bust.

[GANDK2PNW]

Greetings to all!
The decision's been made a few weeks age. After 5+ decades of land living, we have agreed to spend the next one as liveaboard creatures in the Pacific North West. Why the PNW?
Simple. After visiting more than 60 countries and living in 6 of them, we agree that the archipelagos and fjords between Orcas and Broughton islands are the most beautiful places on the planet, as we know it.
So, between now and next spring/summer we are filling up the schedule to:
1. Choose and buy a suitable trawler: 44'-52' CPMY, aft cabin, twin diesels capable of cruising at 10+ knots.
Once the boat is chosen, offer is made and accepted, financing/transport arranged, surveys all done satisfactorily and marina slip secured, it will still take us a few more months before we can move in. Her work contract and our business managing need completion and arrangements.
2. Sell, Gift, Donate or Trash most of our earthly possessions. It's amazing the amount of useless crap one accumulates when living in a house.
3. Take as many courses as possible on marine mechnical/electrical systems, diesel engines, navigation and maintenance. As well as read, copy and print forum posts with advice for future reference.

We'll be opening new threads asking a gazillion questions about things to learn. Our first questions is this:
We're looking at boats as described above all over the country and we find the east coast has a larger selection and at better initial asking prices. Does anyone know what if land transportation is possible and what the overall cost could be from FL to WA?
Shipping a yacht onboard across the Panama canal is cost prohibitive
Thank you all in advance!
Gustavo & Kelly

 

[FlyWright]

Welcome aboard! Sounds like a great adventure.

 

[BandB]

I'd be careful about saying the East Coast has a better selection and better prices. While it does in total, that doesn't necessarily translate into more or lower priced boats for the PNW. There is a lot of difference in the boats you'll see in the PNW and those on the East Coast, especially those in Florida.

As to shipping across country, it obviously depends a lot on the boat, will a flybridge need removing, what kind of permit, what route can be used, pilot vehicles. $15,000 may well be an average but many above and below.

As to shipping on a vessel, yes, it's expensive, but doesn't it's affordability really depend on how much you saved in the buying. Another East Coast factor is the trips you'll have to make there shopping, then buying and surveying. You didn't mention the price range you're looking in?

 

[Crusty Chief]

Welcome aboard and best of luck on your boat search. Why stop at half way up the inside passage? Gets even better farther up.
Cheers

 

[GANDK2PNW]

I reached that preliminary view of east coast boats inventory pricing based on:
1. What I saw in yachworld.com. (Haven't seen any east coast boats live, yet)
2. Boats and prices we have seen and visited in southern CA from Ventura County to San Diego (still looking at more boats)
3. Our primary list of 'must haves':
a. Inside ceiling clearance of 6'4" minimum. (We're tall people, 12 '5" combined)
b. Cockpit 3'-4' should suffice
c. Twin Diesels. Powerful enough to handle PNW currents. I like the economy of Lehman 120s, but not sure if they are sufficient.
d. Lower helm a must. We plan to cruise in the fall/early spring times.
e. Priced at or under $150,000.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

I'd be careful about saying the East Coast has a better selection and better prices. While it does in total, that doesn't necessarily translate into more or lower priced boats for the PNW. There is a lot of difference in the boats you'll see in the PNW and those on the East Coast, especially those in Florida.

As to shipping across country, it obviously depends a lot on the boat, will a flybridge need removing, what kind of permit, what route can be used, pilot vehicles. $15,000 may well be an average but many above and below.

As to shipping on a vessel, yes, it's expensive, but doesn't it's affordability really depend on how much you saved in the buying. Another East Coast factor is the trips you'll have to make there shopping, then buying and surveying. You didn't mention the price range you're looking in?

Also and aft cabin is a must.
I answered some of your questions below. Sorry, still learning to use the site tools

 

[BandB]

I reached that preliminary view of east coast boats inventory pricing based on:
1. What I saw in yachworld.com. (Haven't seen any east coast boats live, yet)
2. Boats and prices we have seen and visited in southern CA from Ventura County to San Diego (still looking at more boats)
3. Our primary list of 'must haves':
a. Inside ceiling clearance of 6'4" minimum. (We're tall people, 12 '5" combined)
b. Cockpit 3'-4' should suffice
c. Twin Diesels. Powerful enough to handle PNW currents. I like the economy of Lehman 120s, but not sure if they are sufficient.
d. Lower helm a must. We plan to cruise in the fall/early spring times.
e. Priced at or under $150,000.

Good answers and I just scanned YW as well. The availability of boats varies widely by brand. For instance, Hatteras is very heavy east coast, but Californian and many of the Chinese trawlers heavy west coast. Some boats heavier PNW than the Southern CA area. I don't see price likely to justify the cost and the effort of transporting, which I would estimate $15k +/-. I just don't see more than a 10% price difference. However, if the boat of your dreams is on the East Coast, the pricing may make it justifiable to transport.

We're 12'2" combined so you win. Fortunately we don't require that much head room but 6'4" won't work either. Lower Helm is also one of our musts and eliminates some very nice boats.

 

[GFC]

I thought you were on the right track until you said "aft cabin". From my experience as an old fart you will spend too much time going up and down steps on an aft cabin boat. It's usually 4-5 steps up a ladder to get on board, then you walk a few steps and it's up or down more steps to get where you're going on the boat.

That's not too bad until you get to my age (just turned 70), then the steps can become a real PITA. They're not bad in a calm sea, but when the boat's rocking I don't want to be going up and down a bunch of steps.

I helped a guy take a 57' boat from Seattle to Stockton 3 years ago. It was pilothouse model with 5-6 steps down to the salon, 5-6 up to the bridge, and from the salon about 10 steps down to the staterooms. When the boat was in rough water those stops were really difficult to maneuver.

Also, make sure there is easy access to the sides of the boat to hang fenders from cleats and rails. There's about a 55' Hatteras aft cabin next to my slip. There are ZERO place aft of amidship to hang any fenders from. That would be a royal PITA if you're heading into a marina.

Just saying.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

I thought you were on the right track until you said "aft cabin". From my experience as an old fart you will spend too much time going up and down steps on an aft cabin boat. It's usually 4-5 steps up a ladder to get on board, then you walk a few steps and it's up or down more steps to get where you're going on the boat.

That's not too bad until you get to my age (just turned 70), then the steps can become a real PITA. They're not bad in a calm sea, but when the boat's rocking I don't want to be going up and down a bunch of steps.

I helped a guy take a 57' boat from Seattle to Stockton 3 years ago. It was pilothouse model with 5-6 steps down to the salon, 5-6 up to the bridge, and from the salon about 10 steps down to the staterooms. When the boat was in rough water those stops were really difficult to maneuver.

Also, make sure there is easy access to the sides of the boat to hang fenders from cleats and rails. There's about a 55' Hatteras aft cabin next to my slip. There are ZERO place aft of amidship to hang any fenders from. That would be a royal PITA if you're heading into a marina.

Just saying.

The boat we chose will have a cockpit, preferably no more than 3'-4'. Good for fishing, cleaning and cooking when we anchor out, as well as store some things like bikes or kayaks. The cockpit should also help with access from the stern, even if we have to navigate a few steps up down to the main saloon and flybridge. Luckily, we're still in enough good shape that we can physically handle it.
We have 2 large labradoodles, and plan to modify those steps from straight up climbing ladders to block steps, as necessary. Most CPMYs we've seen have the room to for it.
We know we'll also need a dock ladder, plank or both. But we'll add that based on the boat we choose.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

I thought you were on the right track until you said "aft cabin". From my experience as an old fart you will spend too much time going up and down steps on an aft cabin boat. It's usually 4-5 steps up a ladder to get on board, then you walk a few steps and it's up or down more steps to get where you're going on the boat.

That's not too bad until you get to my age (just turned 70), then the steps can become a real PITA. They're not bad in a calm sea, but when the boat's rocking I don't want to be going up and down a bunch of steps.

I helped a guy take a 57' boat from Seattle to Stockton 3 years ago. It was pilothouse model with 5-6 steps down to the salon, 5-6 up to the bridge, and from the salon about 10 steps down to the staterooms. When the boat was in rough water those stops were really difficult to maneuver.

Also, make sure there is easy access to the sides of the boat to hang fenders from cleats and rails. There's about a 55' Hatteras aft cabin next to my slip. There are ZERO place aft of amidship to hang any fenders from. That would be a royal PITA if you're heading into a marina.

Just saying.

As for the aft cabin, it's a non-negotiable item with the Mrs, which I agree with for different reasons. She must have enough bedroom clothing storage, I must have enough room in the mattress to stretch my legs.
I also do not want the extra rolling and bobbing motion of a fore cabin. Been there done that when I lived in the Caribbean.

 

[Russell Clifton]

Sounds like you know exactly what you want. Good for you!

It blows my mind how many people on the west coat want to buy a boat on the east coast and how many on the east cost want to buy a boat on the west coast. Seems like a really big hassle to me. That east cost boat better be a really good deal considering travel expenses to view, to survey, and to ship across the country. Keep in mind, don't buy a east coast boat that is not that common in the PNW as it will be harder to sell.

The last two boats I've bought were within 40 miles of my home. Easy to view, easy to survey, and easy to handle all the paper work.

If you want to cruise at 10 kts, any trawler with Lehman 120's might be a challenge. It's going to take more horse power than that. So there goes your fuel economy. My 49 Defever with the 135's would nearly be running full throttle to attain 10 kts.

The Tollycraft boats are very popular up here and they make aft cabin models that can easily cruise that fast. Not sure about the head room. Trawlers with a aft cabin and a cockpit will be a challenge. It will be a open cockpit and not covered or enclosed, at least I have never seen one. The Grand Banks are also plentiful but most of them are not 10 kt. boats either.

Keep in mind that the best part of boating up here is the trip there, so why rush it? Slow down to 7 kts, see a lot more wild life, and save some money.

Have fun, looking for the right boat is best. Hope to see you out here.

 

[dhays]

Stick to the West Coast. For the added cost of purchasing and shipping you could buy a better boat on the West Coast. The other issue is that you will need diesel heat. I would bet that half of the boats you see on the East coast will have that.

Reconsider the requirement for twins. It will limit you unnecessarily.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Sounds like you know exactly what you want. Good for you!

It blows my mind how many people on the west coat want to buy a boat on the east coast and how many on the east cost want to buy a boat on the west coast. Seems like a really big hassle to me. That east cost boat better be a really good deal considering travel expenses to view, to survey, and to ship across the country. Keep in mind, don't buy a east coast boat that is not that common in the PNW as it will be harder to sell.

The last two boats I've bought were within 40 miles of my home. Easy to view, easy to survey, and easy to handle all the paper work.

If you want to cruise at 10 kts, any trawler with Lehman 120's might be a challenge. It's going to take more horse power than that. So there goes your fuel economy. My 49 Defever with the 135's would nearly be running full throttle to attain 10 kts.

The Tollycraft boats are very popular up here and they make aft cabin models that can easily cruise that fast. Not sure about the head room. Trawlers with a aft cabin and a cockpit will be a challenge. It will be a open cockpit and not covered or enclosed, at least I have never seen one. The Grand Banks are also plentiful but most of them are not 10 kt. boats either.

Keep in mind that the best part of boating up here is the trip there, so why rush it? Slow down to 7 kts, see a lot more wild life, and save some money.

Have fun, looking for the right boat is best. Hope to see you out here.

Thank you for your valid points. I do appreciate them.
I am not mesmerized with the idea of an east coast boat, and all the hassles associated with it (travel to see, choose, survey, repair, transport, etc etc). But I'm not yet ready to ditch that market yet, if the volume of boats available also means a good deal can be found.

The 10kt + power we want is not to get there faster. That's the least of our concerns. I believe wholeheartedly in "I'll be there when I get there" philosophy. But I also want to avoid getting stuck on 'going nowhere' mode when we face the 5-7 kt currents in many areas of the PNW.

That's also why I'll be carrying at least 3 oversized anchors with plenty of galvanized chain, not just rode (but I'll open that dreaded can of worms for discussion some other time).

So, yes, Lehmans 120s/135s and even Perkins 200s seem a bit underpowered for the task.
CAT 3208s seem more suitable, even if I must sacrifice fuel economy.
Someone told me Volvo Pentas are 300hp per side, but the maintenance is just as high as the CATs.
I will not buy big Detroit engines, either. I want a dry engine room, free of oil leaks. Everyone I know that has those things wishes they did not have to deal with a wet engine room.

We are following some 30+ boats right now on YW, down from the original list of 120. Gone are the flush decks and the no-lower helm boats. The majority of those remaining on the list are on the west coast, though.

We're seeing boats near our home in southern CA. But after buying it, home will be somewhere near Anacortes, Poulsbo in fall/winter, and Campbel River / Sidney in spring/summer.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Stick to the West Coast. For the added cost of purchasing and shipping you could buy a better boat on the West Coast. The other issue is that you will need diesel heat. I would bet that half of the boats you see on the East coast will have that.

Reconsider the requirement for twins. It will limit you unnecessarily.

Thank you, Guru

The Mrs. wants Air Conditioning, even though very hot summer days in the PNW are not as extensive as we see in SoCal. That's why I began looking at east coast boats, most of them have it. On the other hand, I may be able to convince her that space cooler can get the job done.
I agree with you that heating is a much higher priority than AC.

The twin engines are non-negotiable items. I am not mechnically inclined, or experienced enough with powerboats to chance lossing engine power in those currents. I'll be learning a lot these next few months about maintenance and system functions, but I won't ever pretend or presume to be able to make emergency repairs in case of engine failure.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Welcome aboard and best of luck on your boat search. Why stop at half way up the inside passage? Gets even better farther up.
Cheers

John & Tracey,
Thank you for the welcome!
We know that inside passage to southern AK is magnificient. But I'm a cautious curious cat.
Our first year board will be limited to exploring no further north from Anacortes than Alert Bay and the Broughon islands. There is enough there to keep us busy for a year. After that, we'll know more about everything needed to dare explore more.

 

[BandB]

As for the aft cabin, it's a non-negotiable item with the Mrs, which I agree with for different reasons. She must have enough bedroom clothing storage, I must have enough room in the mattress to stretch my legs.
I also do not want the extra rolling and bobbing motion of a fore cabin. Been there done that when I lived in the Caribbean.

How do you not get that with a mid cabin?

 

[twistedtree]

Stick to the West Coast. .... The other issue is that you will need diesel heat. I would bet that half of the boats you see on the East coast will have that.

I agree completely about heat. But on the east coast, I think you will find almost zero boats with diesel heat. It's just not done. Boats either get hauled for the winter, or move south.

The companion consideration is AC. In the east, nearly all boats have AC. Not so much in the PNW. In fact lots of boats don't have AC.

Having AC does no harm, but I think you really need diesel heat if you will be in the PNW for an extended period.

 

[dhays]

The Mrs. wants Air Conditioning, even though very hot summer days in the PNW are not as extensive as we see in SoCal. That's why I began looking at east coast boats, most of them have it. On the other hand, I may be able to convince her that space cooler can get the job done.
I agree with you that heating is a much higher priority than AC.

The twin engines are non-negotiable items. I am not mechnically inclined, or experienced enough with powerboats to chance lossing engine power in those currents. I'll be learning a lot these next few months about maintenance and system functions, but I won't ever pretend or presume to be able to make emergency repairs in case of engine failure.

FWIW, "Guru" simply means that I post a lot, not that I have any knowledge about any of the things I post.

This last summer was very warm, and there were times when the boat was uncomfortably hot. So if your wife wants AC, then you need AC. However, the AC will be important on those hot days in late July and August, heat will be used almost year round.

Single vs Twins is a religious debate dealing with faith, superstition, and dogma. You will find plenty of folks who share your belief and I won't try to convince you otherwise.

I think your overall plan to find a boat and explore up here is a great one. You will run out of years before you run out of places to explore.

 

[twistedtree]

FWIW, "Guru" simply means that I post a lot, not that I have any knowledge about any of the things I post.

This last summer was very warm, and there were times when the boat was uncomfortably hot. So if your wife wants AC, then you need AC. However, the AC will be important on those hot days in late July and August, heat will be used almost year round.

Single vs Twins is a religious debate dealing with faith, superstition, and dogma. You will find plenty of folks who share your belief and I won't try to convince you otherwise.

I think your overall plan to find a boat and explore up here is a great one. You will run out of years before you run out of places to explore.

You actually ARE a guru. Great advice!

 

[Tuttouomo]

G&K, Welcome and good luck on your new adventure. Amy and I spent a lot of time looking at boats from San Diego to Bellingham and realized that narrowing our search to the PNW where we would keep it made the most sense. We took our time and our boat found us, and happened to be in Tacoma!
A must upgrade for us was the diesel heat system, as for a/c, the days are few that it is necessary and the nights are cool with not much humidity .
Also what you see on YW and what you see in person, is usually quite different. Board as many boats as you can so you can start to get a feel for what feels right for your purpose.
We moor in Everett and spend most of our time aboard as live aboards, heat is essential. Our dirt house is in socal and we currently go back and forth.
The pic is our dock this morning, inside the boat........toasty.

Bill

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Hey Gustavo & Kelly. Welcome. As I was reading your original post, I thought I was looking at me and the Admiral 3 years ago. We were on the hunt for a livaboard. This Last year we made our first up the inside passage all the way to Juneau. 2017 Crusty Chief and I will be depleting Alaska of some of its fish, we hope. Lots of information here on TF. I had some of the same requirements for a boat. Took us a few years to find our boat. Good luck on the search. Most of all make this journey FUN......

 

[GANDK2PNW]

G&K, Welcome and good luck on your new adventure. Amy and I spent a lot of time looking at boats from San Diego to Bellingham and realized that narrowing our search to the PNW where we would keep it made the most sense. We took our time and our boat found us, and happened to be in Tacoma!
A must upgrade for us was the diesel heat system, as for a/c, the days are few that it is necessary and the nights are cool with not much humidity .
Also what you see on YW and what you see in person, is usually quite different. Board as many boats as you can so you can start to get a feel for what feels right for your purpose.
We moor in Everett and spend most of our time aboard as live aboards, heat is essential. Our dirt house is in socal and we currently go back and forth.
The pic is our dock this morning, inside the boat........toasty.

Bill

Thank you for the welcome, Bill
The diesel heat system seems to be the most popular choice for PNW boats.
We'll definitely consider it.
Right on point about the differences of what is posted on YW and the actual condition of the boat. Some of these brokers and/or the sellers they represent are complete jokes. They post photos of 2 owners and 2 decades ago, then they act surprised when I point out to obvious teak damage under windows or portholes

 

[BandB]

Thank you for the welcome, Bill
The diesel heat system seems to be the most popular choice for PNW boats.
We'll definitely consider it.
Right on point about the differences of what is posted on YW and the actual condition of the boat. Some of these brokers and/or the sellers they represent are complete jokes. They post photos of 2 owners and 2 decades ago, then they act surprised when I point out to obvious teak damage under windows or portholes

Request current time stamped photos of items of your choosing before you'll travel long distances. Get a buyer's broker you trust to wade through all the selling brokers and their representations.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

The 10kt + power we want is not to get there faster. That's the least of our concerns. I believe wholeheartedly in "I'll be there when I get there" philosophy. But I also want to avoid getting stuck on 'going nowhere' mode when we face the 5-7 kt currents in many areas of the PNW.

That's also why I'll be carrying at least 3 oversized anchors with plenty of galvanized chain, not just rode (but I'll open that dreaded can of worms for discussion some other time).

There are very few places up here where the currents runs that fast. Even in areas where large volume of water flow through narrow passages, current that fast only lasts for a fairly short period of time. With a little advanced planing these passages can be avoided when there is a large water movement.

Most of the trawlers cruise about 8 knots give or take.... They work just fine...

 

[CraigC]

Welcome Gustavo & Kelly.

Look at this one. If it fits the bill, see if you can get it for $150K. TF member Pau Hana in the PNW has one built a year later than this and it has worked out well for him.

1988 PT PT52 CPMY Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Originally $189K, then $179K, reduced a week ago to $169K. I regret not making the drive down to Oxnard myself to check it out before I purchased my boat last month. It seemed like my #2 option. (I would change the salon furniture, though.)

While you are in Oxnard, see this
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...-Harbor,-Oxnard/CA/United-States#.WEvHx7IrKM9

and this
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...slands---Oxnard/CA/United-States#.WEvIRrIrKM8

That would be an eye-opening trip, I think. If you don't have a broker and want one, at least for the Oxnard area, I hear Brian Willhite at Peninsula Yacht Sales there is a good one. They should all co-op up there.

Here's a Defever 44 that might fit into your budget too. A newer listing, though, and might not have the cockpit you want. Since it's close by you, may still be worth looking at. The more you see, including varying form factors, the better.

1988 DeFever Offshore Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I would be all over that PT52 for around $150K, though, if it meets your needs.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Hello Craig,
Thank you for the welcome.
Earlier this week we set an appointment with the listing broker to see the PT52 and Vantare Lien Hwa tomorrow Sunday.
We tell all the listing brokers that our offer, if we choose any of their boats, will be submitted from a different broker representing us. And we back it up with an email and/or text.

I'm prudent and pretty cold blooded when it comes to making large purchases. Photos and fancy commentary may spark my initial interest, but it takes a lot more to take me to that sweet "I must have it" spot.

Winter hasn't even started yet, so I expect prices to adjust quite a bit in the next couple of months. In Ventura county, that Vantare 49 at $129K leads the the pack on pricing alone, if one must judge only by the YW ads. Engines are both under 2000 hrs, as well.

We'll see, said the blind man (before he smashed his head on the wall

 

[sunchaser]

Be very careful on initial price. Final price after getting everything fixed could and will shock you. And for the PNW cruising, you will need diesel heat unless you stay at marinas and/or run your genset a lot.

 

[CPseudonym]

There ain't nothing more expensive than a cheap boat

Welcome to the forum

 

[GANDK2PNW]

There ain't nothing more expensive than a cheap boat

Welcome to the forum

That's a favorite line with most brokers, lol...whether they're selling boats, cars or houses.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

Be very careful on initial price. Final price after getting everything fixed could and will shock you. And for the PNW cruising, you will need diesel heat unless you stay at marinas and/or run your genset a lot.

Thank you for the advice. We're going into this with our eyes wide open. Initial and final prices are important factors, but not the only things we will putting in the decision process.