Blue Water Capable

[DCDC]

In the 90's we purchased a 40' steel ketch in the Adriatic, cruised the west Med for 18 months and crossed Gibraltar-Canaries-Barbados. In the Caribbean we cruised the Windward's, the north coast of South America to Panama, up the western Caribbean and ended up on the Gulf Coast. Five years/13Knm. The boat was perfect for those purposes and the PO had made two round trips across the Atlantic.

The east-west route via the Canaries is generally benign outside of hurricane season. Wind and current are favorable. It's said if you toss a bottle in, it will eventually end up in the Windward's. Our small yacht club hosts a Talisker Challenge crew in the fall for training. The Talisker is a transatlantic rowing fleet with solo, double and four crews. They row from the Canaries to Antigua and take 35-75 days.

We now have a heavily built, twin engine (2x150hp) trawler which I would make the trip in, but would probably have to stop in the Cape Verde's for fuel. Our sailboat had around 100 gallons of diesel, including jugs; trawler has 1,600 gallons. The west-bound routes are further north and have a higher risk of foul weather but have some intermediate stops.

Having experienced open water in the sailboat and cruising in our trawler, I think I would take a close look at a blue-water motor-sailor. Fisher comes to mind.

 

[Mako]

There was an article in a boat magazine, Passagemaker or Woodenboat, about someone designing and building a boat designed specifically to fit into a shipping container.

There are some "shipping container" boats out there and if you think about it, transporting your boat to the other side of the world for $4-5k is wonderful, but those boats aren't exactly going to be heavy duty or offer high levels of comfort for extended cruising, even in coastal conditions.

However I had a conversation with a shipping agent in the Maldives years ago about shipping a boat from there to the Red Sea or Med (to avoid the pirate issue). He commented that you could flat rack ship your boat, top level on the container ship, if you kept the length under 39/6 and the width under about 13'. I don't recall the exact dimensions, but that would open up a lot of options for those with heavier boats, like a diesel duck or such. Might be worth looking into.

 

[ldodge]

Hello Jack - I understand the balance that you are describing between cost and capabilities. I was impressed with an article I read in PassageMaker a while back about a North Pacific 49 that had traveled extensively around Southeast Asia. I was not familiar with NP Yachts but later found they are a direct to the buyer company with a stellar reputation of building quality trawlers. The value of their boats is excellent. I now have a NP45 Pilothouse on order. You should check them out. Here is the link to the article ... https://www.passagemaker.com/lifestyle/point-to-point

 

[Trawlerdream]

Another way to approach this problem is to buy a coastal cruiser and operate in the USA for a while. Then ship the boat to the EU, and operate there. I looked into this last year. Rough numbers are $30K 1-way for a 40' boat, FL to Mediterranean. Return shipment back to USA is one option. So is selling the boat in the EU. I have a lot of USA cruising to do before this becomes a consideration...

Take the boat down to Antigua. Then put it on a freighter to Palma in the Med. Price 14000$ for a 40’ boat.

 

[Trawlerdream]

"I am not a Navy guy and videos of those ships being tossed around in major storms is enough to make me avoid this unless necessary."

Most of the big wave horror scenes are winter storms or hurricanes.

Most , but not all, rough passages can be avoided by seasonal planning.

Tho even just coasting in the right season,,, "Stuff Happens".

If you sail west to east over the Atlantic you have to stay out of the stationary high that sits in the Atlantic. If you motor you stay in the high and will have a very comfortable ride.

 

[Trawlerdream]

"I am not a Navy guy and videos of those ships being tossed around in major storms is enough to make me avoid this unless necessary."

Most of the big wave horror scenes are winter storms or hurricanes.

Most , but not all, rough passages can be avoided by seasonal planning.

Tho even just coasting in the right season,,, "Stuff Happens".

Quite a lot of people have crossed oceans in the klepper kayak.

https://www.klepperamerica.com/klepper-folding-kayak-expeditions/

 

[OldDan1943]

If you sail west to east over the Atlantic you have to stay out of the stationary high that sits in the Atlantic. If you motor you stay in the high and will have a very comfortable ride.

Navy Ops are almost never affect by the weather, in peace time. My last trip to and from the Med., green water against the bridge windows. LOL I had a perpetual light green cast to my complexion.

 

[DDW]

Quite a lot of people have crossed oceans in the klepper kayak.

https://www.klepperamerica.com/klepper-folding-kayak-expeditions/

The Atlantic has been crossed many times in kayaks, rowboats, wind surfers, beach cats, inflatable life boats, and at least once clinging to a mooring ball and another time on a floating pile of garbage. Crossing in comfort - that is another matter. When Manry did it in the 13' Tinkerbell, he hove to every night, so he really did it daysailing. Webb Chiles did a circumnavigation in an 18' open decked sailboat, and just completed his 5th circumnavigation (on a 24' daysailer) at age 77.

All of which is to say it doesn't take much of a boat to cross an ocean, given the right crew, and with the wrong crew even the Titanic can't manage it.

 

[bogranjac1]

The Atlantic has been crossed many times in kayaks, rowboats, wind surfers, beach cats, inflatable life boats, and at least once clinging to a mooring ball and another time on a floating pile of garbage. Crossing in comfort - that is another matter. When Manry did it in the 13' Tinkerbell, he hove to every night, so he really did it daysailing. Webb Chiles did a circumnavigation in an 18' open decked sailboat, and just completed his 5th circumnavigation (on a 24' daysailer) at age 77.

All of which is to say it doesn't take much of a boat to cross an ocean, given the right crew, and with the wrong crew even the Titanic can't manage it.

One of the more intelligent posts read recently, thx.
More posts from you please in the future

 

[sunchaser]

I didn't think they had the range. I've looked at a few but never saw any with more than 1000 gallons of fuel.

Correct. With fuel bladders or cockpit deck tank range can be extended. Several DFs in this size range over the years have hopped the Atlantic. When the N46 Egret was cruising Southern Chile they met up with a DF 44 several times.

But bravery and chest puffing aside, Art DeFever never intended the "standard" 48 and 49s to be blue water capable thus CE Ocean Rated type (or NA blue water design proficiency) were not the build standards.

Many larger DFs were purpose designed and built for blue water work, long before blue water capable KKs and Nordhavns existed.

 

[Brusky1000]

Hmmm.

Been on TF for a bit now and have seen lots of great debate on many topics. My question is this......aside from Kady Krogans and Nordhavens, what are other boat brands that offer a trawler that can cross an ocean without the added price for just those two name brands?

After being built, someone got my Bluewater 40' here from Tiawan some time ago. 2/700 gal. diesel tanks, 2 200 gal. water tanks.

 

[Mako]

Calico,

I would second a previous recommendation about a Diesel Duck. They are superb bluewater boats and Buehler's designs have proven themselves around Cape Horn (a 38 footer), the Pacific and the Northwest Passage. Plenty of used ones on the market, both home and professionally built.

But remember how everyone always says that "boats are a compromise"... well how much are you and your spouse willing to compromise?

Look at the windage, glass area, exterior openings, simplicity of systems, etc., and I would say that in survival conditions that they are far superior to any KK or NH. But how often do you sail in those conditions?

Because on the other hand they are like living in a sailboat. The galleys I saw in Izmir were like caves with a low ceiling. There are no covered outside spaces (patio, flybridge, etc.) generally in their designs - unless you add some ugly fabric bimini. Small inside for their length.

IMO, the smallest practical size for my wife and I is the 48' which I would still characterize as an "adventure boat" but not as a full time liveaboard home.

You should go see a couple of DDs on the used market and tell us what your feedback is - I'd be curious to know your thoughts.

 

[Knot Fast]

Take the boat down to Antigua. Then put it on a freighter to Palma in the Med. Price 14000$ for a 40’ boat.

Interesting. Do you have the name of the shipping company? Is it a regular freighter or dedicated yacht transport operator?

DYT is the company I spoke to, and they use a specialized ship dedicated to yacht transport and provide cradles and lashings for each yacht. Their ~$30K price included insurance for loading, shipment and unloading.

 

[BandB]

Interesting. Do you have the name of the shipping company? Is it a regular freighter or dedicated yacht transport operator?

DYT is the company I spoke to, and they use a specialized ship dedicated to yacht transport and provide cradles and lashings for each yacht. Their ~$30K price included insurance for loading, shipment and unloading.

DYT is the most expensive. Their Parent, Seven Star is next. They are also the two best. However, there are many other shippers and ships available.

 

[FF]

"you could flat rack ship your boat, top level on the container ship, if you kept the length under 39/6 and the width under about 13'."


True but much of the function of being in a sealed container is to keep the equipment , gear and tools from taking a walk while in transit.