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Exactly. Well said.

And on another note, on what basis does nordhavn get the crown?

Or is this also about the "best" marketing??

Nordhavn absolutely has had the best and most effective marketing. I also have an issue with "crowning" them. They make a good boat but the impression that theere aren't other boats that can also do what theirs are known for. The most recent crossing of the Atlantic revealed here wasn't a Nordhavn...:D

This is in no way meant to put Nordhavn down, just to emphasize there are other quality boats in their ranges.
 
This is one of my listings that fits my definition of a trawler. At 80 feet it is over this threads parameters but with an asking price of $2,450,000 you might get it $1 below $2 million.
 

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Richard on Dauntless re your posts 57, 58,and 59 .........

Does that apply to anchors?

Please don't respond.
 
Nordhavn absolutely has had the best and most effective marketing. I also have an issue with "crowning" them. They make a good boat but the impression that theere aren't other boats that can also do what theirs are known for. The most recent crossing of the Atlantic revealed here wasn't a Nordhavn...:D

This is in no way meant to put Nordhavn down, just to emphasize there are other quality boats in their ranges.

Plenty of people have crossed an ocean in a far less capable boat than a Kadey Krogen or a Nordhavn.

I've read every account of power boats making passages that I could find.

The majority are accounts of Nordhavns. Which in large part is due to their marketing AND the fact that they had a hand in Passagemaker magazine.

I recall only a few accounts of Krogens.

And a number of accounts of the one offs.

It was from these stories that I decided on the Krogen. Why?

Two big reasons:

1. Of all the Nordhavn accounts of crossing oceans, they always had some system failure, mainly the stabilizers.

2. The Krogen is simply a more efficient boat. At least 10% on fuel and I think in the living space also, but I will grant that's a personal preference. And I'm sure the Nordy's will say that makes their boat more salty, but show me the data that proves that.

Connected to the cost issue is the total number of systems on their boats, which while being marketed as redundancy, I think actually leads to the failures they have.

I could not afford a boat in which I had to replace major components.

In sum, I've driven a 25 year old boat, up and down the east coast twice, across the North Atlantic and now into the North Sea.

That's over 2000 hours, 12,000 nm and the Krogen has never had a failure of a Krogen installed part.

All my problems have been caused by ME.
 
1. Of all the Nordhavn accounts of crossing oceans, they always had some system failure, mainly the stabilizers.

.

Stabilizers were a huge problem on the 2004 Atlantic Rally. I think there were a lot of participants though only doing it because it was a rally. More than one decided on the way to sell their boat if they made it across.

I believe Nordhavn has solved the stabilizer issue now.

Boats of many sizes and shapes cross oceans. To think there's only one or two trawlers capable is a misunderstanding. It just starts with the boat itself, but the real keys once you have a boat with a capable hull, is the condition of the boat and the skills and knowledge of the crew.
 
"I believe Nordhavn has solved the stabilizer issue now. "

Everything slowly wears out , until they solve the wearing out part repairing complex hydraulics will remain a hassle.

Along with engines trannys auto pilots and all the rest.

Theb sailors get it right nwhen noticing no repairs are needed for what nis NOT aboard.

KISS,,, for a cruiser , more time cruising less time fixing.
 
Never seen stabilizers on a fish boat. They all use paravanes.

With stabilizers if the engine failed the stabilizers would fail for being useless.

KISS for safety in a big storm.

yachtbrokerguy,
Yes that boat has a wheelhouse too far fwd to be a Passagemaker. So it must be a trawler.
 
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It's all an individual thing. Some cross like the chicken just to get to the other side. We're going to cross when we do so for the experience of crossing. We don't want to just experience the two sides but we trip across as well.

Have you ever crossed an ocean on a vessel before?

Not judging...just curious.....
 
Originally Posted by ssobol
There is a guy who went completely around North and South America without touching land in a 27' Vega. Not a trawler, but I think that qualifies as a blue water boat.

Didn't someone cross the Atlantic on a tire tube? __________________
Richard on Dauntless in Ireland


Technically debatable...circumnavigating N & S America in my book could be coastal cruising...not crossing an ocean. Even not touching land doesn't mean he coudn't have if necessary. But it was a feat.


Reminds me of so many people who will run their small boat 50 miles up the coast...but won't go 10 miles offshore....human nature is a funny thing.
 
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Have you ever crossed an ocean on a vessel before?

Not judging...just curious.....

No. And when we do it will be with crew that has done so many times, in a boat more than capable, and still recognizing that it can possibly turn quite unpleasant. We definitely don't take it lightly and will be very cautious. It's likely to happen some time between 4 and 6 years from now.
 
Reminds me of so many people who will run their small boat 50 miles up the coast...but won't go 10 miles offshore....human nature is a funny thing.

Those who run overnight runs to Key West or north up the Atlantic coast but won't cross to the Bahamas. We've run across coastal boaters in South Florida who don't realize Bimini is less than 60 nm away. We were talking to a couple in Miami who didn't realize Bimini was closer to them than West Palm.
 
I have had people totally freak out when they lost sight of land.. my humming the theme song of Gilligan's Island was the icing on the cake. If one heads offshore the weather WILL turn to crap at some point. Hopefully it doesn't last too long and make the folks never get on a boat out of sight of land again.. but that also happens.

As many blue water sea miles as I have I still have times when I ask myself W.T.F. was I thinking to try/do this again??. So far though the call of the sea is still stronger than the feeling to not leave terra firma.

The key to ANY "passagemaker" is a well found,solid,well maintained that the capt. can acquire a deep working knowledge of its systems to be able to fix all the stuff that goes wonky or breaks.. because it will happen.

We are about to become empty nesters and try as I do I cannot get the Admiral to sell the farm and go blue water.. yet. I figure I will just have to keep wearing her down till she gives up.

HOLLYWOOD
 
My point is I have cruised the ocean many a day....like some others here.


For a brief period it has it's romance for me...for some...always....


In my experience...most find it boring rather quickly.


Thus all the attractions on cruise ships.


To do it earns a bit of bragging rights...just like the crossing traditions of Equator, Dateline, Artic/Antarctic circles...etc....but in the long run many would rather "be there" than cross.


I know I would....not much to see and the threat of danger is pretty lopsided in my book...but for some...it is the "call of the sea"....
 
Very true for many people. While working tows on the W. Rivers and Inland Waterways I was assigned a new to my boat pilot. Everything was going well for several months until we got order to run to Mobile from Baton Rouge. He completely lost it when we got out into the Mississippi Sound. After staying awake for 36 hours I had to get a new pilot sent out when we got to the dock in Mobile.
 
Wifey B: To me if I can't see land, I can't see land. Whether I'm ten miles or a hundred miles from it, I now use means other than visual. That was like my for real first like super big moment cruising offshore, the first time in my life I ever was on the water and couldn't see land. It was like "whoa.....where did it go....this is freaky".

Now obviously distance and ability to get to shore are important. To me that first hit when I took a trip that I couldn't go from land to land during the day.
 
...
Thus all the attractions on cruise ships.


To do it [on one's own] earns a bit of bragging rights...just like the crossing traditions of Equator, Dateline, Artic/Antarctic circles...etc....but in the long run many would rather "be there" than cross.

...
"Baptized" at the Horn, on a cruise ship:

 
We are about to become empty nesters and try as I do I cannot get the Admiral to sell the farm and go blue water.. yet. I figure I will just have to keep wearing her down till she gives up.

Ah, yes, the lesser known version of "Noah's Ark Syndrome."

As in...what was the name of Noah's wife?
 
My point is I have cruised the ocean many a day....like some others here.


For a brief period it has it's romance for me...for some...always....


In my experience...most find it boring rather quickly.


Thus all the attractions on cruise ships.


To do it earns a bit of bragging rights...just like the crossing traditions of Equator, Dateline, Artic/Antarctic circles...etc....but in the long run many would rather "be there" than cross.


I know I would....not much to see and the threat of danger is pretty lopsided in my book...but for some...it is the "call of the sea"....

For us, no interest in bragging rights, no braving it against the elements as we will do all possible to minimize risks. There are excursions we have no interest in. Antarctica is one of those. Panama Canal was a great adventure, Cape Horn does not hold any appeal. Circumnavigation doesn't attract us as right now there are just too many areas with risks we're not willing to take. Even in Central and South America there are areas we'll avoid. We aren't really risk takers, so are very careful to control and manage those risks.

Crossing the Atlantic after the first time probably does become just about getting to the other side. But the first time it's an adventure that we want to pursue. Same thing, one day to Hawaii and to the Galapagos.

Over time as world conditions vary, our plans well may. We'd love to spend time in the Pacific, boating around Australia and New Zealand. Today if we were ready to do that though, we'd fly and then charter there.

For us the sea is beautiful, but we still are risk managers, not takers. An example of that would be our Alaskan cruise. We did hire a pilot/captain very familiar with the area to help lead us. Could we have done it without? Yes. Would it have been as safe or as free of stress? No. We have been to Eleuthera several times but we still use a pilot into Romora Bay.

Once we've crossed the Atlantic and returned, I have no idea if we'll do it again. The next time, maybe ten years later, we might ship the boat or even charter in Europe.

As to finding things boring, we entertain ourselves pretty well when at sea. However, we've never been at sea the time it takes from Bermuda to the Azores. Our longest trek so far was 760 nm, about 64 hours. Bermuda to the Azores will be around 150 hours and depending on conditions could be longer. 130 hours minimum to 200 hours maximum.

When we started anything that required traveling at night seemed long to us.

When we do cross, too, we will be extra cautious weather wise with no preset calendar. If that means spending a month in Bermuda or the Azores then so be it. Those are not bad places to find yourself "stuck".

To us so much is just being on the water. Yesterday, we spent over 10 hours on the Chesapeake, going nowhere. We docked last night the same place we had the night before. We just took it all in and basked in the beauty.

We're not followers or copiers so we'll never go somewhere just because others have or others say it's the thing to do.

And the Great Loop is our next big adventure. It comes before a crossing. And although we'll travel home in the interim, we don't anticipate the boat making it home for perhaps 3 years.
 
Nordhavn did an extremely risky thing in making public the NAR and the circumnavigation of the N40. They put it all out there including the good, bad, and ugly. I have the DVD of the NAR. It is very informative. I too now believe that paravanes are the way to go. Even with hydraulic stabalizers paravanes would be a great backup.

Richard's crossing showed what simplicity on a power boat can do. There is something comforting about having most equipment on board that is reparable by the crew. Barring major disaster that is.
 
Nordhavn recently put the video of the NAR on Youtube. (Doug Harlow channel) Just watched it a few nights ago. Very informative and yes, several stabilizer problems. I do recognize that this rally was over 10 years ago and technologies and reliabilities change over time. Seems the best solution for ocean crossings is to have both ... and maybe Flopper Stoppers for when at anchor. Budget Dept - "NO" ...Oh, what do you mean I can't have everything? I appreciate them putting out the video and view it as a company's honesty and integrity showing warts and all, and not blowing smoke up the buyers you know what. I don't think it hurts them at all, personally. But yes, pretty complicated boats.
 
Don,
Paravanes can be a problem if not used propperly. Run the wire or chain too short for example and you run the risk of a "fish" coming crashing through the cabin. Not a pleasant thought. I hear they should be run 15' deep. Of course that will vary re beam of boat, length of poles ect. For those that need specific directions w hard numbers some stress will result from making calls that are "about right" re dimensions, weights ect.
 
Don,
Paravanes can be a problem if not used propperly. Run the wire or chain too short for example and you run the risk of a "fish" coming crashing through the cabin. Not a pleasant thought. I hear they should be run 15' deep. Of course that will vary re beam of boat, length of poles ect. For those that need specific directions w hard numbers some stress will result from making calls that are "about right" re dimensions, weights ect.

Eric: Your right if not used properly. Like anything else on a boat if the design, the installation, proper maintenance and then properly operated, you should have minimal issues. After 10000 plus miles of running with the paravanes deployed I can't imagine the fish crashing into the cabin. I think the odds are a lot higher off shearing off a fin on active stabilizers before that happening but then again it's a boat... :)
 
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That was like my for real first like super big moment cruising offshore, the first time in my life I ever was on the water and couldn't see land. It was like "whoa.....where did it go....this is freaky".

LOL...My wife had that same reactions crossing the (relatively puny) Pamlico sound the other day!
 
LOL...My wife had that same reactions crossing the (relatively puny) Pamlico sound the other day!

Wifey B: Something about it all still just amazes me. My hubby grew up boating and loved it so and I remember the first time on his boat on the lake. I can't put it into words but instantly I knew the feeling he had. It's sort of like the world and all it's stresses and problems exist on land and when you get on the water you're leaving it all behind, even if just for a while. Put me behind the wheel or at the helm and I don't think of other things.

Then like the ocean...omg it's...maybe it's the fact that it has no end. It just goes into other oceans and they go into other. Land ends. You walk off that end and you go kerplunk and if it's the wrong place then it's bye bye baby. The ocean isn't just as far as you can see...it's infinite. You see things that are just so spectacular every day.

Ok, here's one that threw me. We lived on the lake. Hubby was ready to take me out in the boat while it was pouring down snowing. Out we went, boat buttoned up. Me dressed in like 30 layers of stuff. Then I saw it. Undisturbed snow. It all looked Kinkadish. It just hit me. On land it's always had people or cars or something through it, messing the picture up, like photobombing. But from the water, everything so perfect, so peaceful. We stayed out hours just seeing the world in a different pose.

I don't know, just every day I get out on the water is a new fun day. Wind in my face and hair, salt air. I'm refreshed. We had a like really tough day on Sunday, had to help someone badly in need. Draining. But Monday morning when we pulled away from the dock, all my energy came back.
 
Then like the ocean...omg it's...maybe it's the fact that it has no end. It just goes into other oceans and they go into other. Land ends. You walk off that end and you go kerplunk and if it's the wrong place then it's bye bye baby. The ocean isn't just as far as you can see...it's infinite. You see things that are just so spectacular every day.


I don't know, just every day I get out on the water is a new fun day. Wind in my face and hair, salt air. I'm refreshed. We had a like really tough day on Sunday, had to help someone badly in need. Draining. But Monday morning when we pulled away from the dock, all my energy came back.

I know those feelings...I sailed 700 miles from NJ to Bermuda years ago on a 31 footer. One of the most amazing things is the sky at night, hundreds of miles from the nearest light source....The sensory deprivation can get to you during the day though..

We had a tough day Monday pounding across the Pamilico in our tiny 28 footer.. Draining for sure, but in the end a great trip. All worth it..We saw new places, met some interesting people and knew we could do it in the future, even under less than perfect conditions..
 
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So how does the Diesel Duck stack up as a passagemaker? How would they be compared to the same size Nordhavn? Seems like they have a fair amount of blue water under their belt.
 
Steve, there is nothing quite like the Pamlico chop. I consider Maw Point one of the most dangerous spots on the ICW. Even more true when wind is out of the NE. It is not wise to take the Pamlico for granted.
 
Our Krogen 42 has not crossed an ocean. It has active stabilizers which when they work are wonderful. Having followed the 2004 Nordhavn trans Atlantic rally I would not rely upon a small boat's active stabilizers to make the trip. Paravanes would be my choice. Admittedly the stabilizer manufacturers have beefed up this system since 2004.

As far as keeping it simple, my choice is simple, active stabilizers or my wife goes home. This is particularly true because in the Eastern Caribbean the waves are normally 5 to 8 feet on the beam. Without stabilizers we would roll excessively. A couple Krogens have come down without the stabilizers. My hats off to them. 19 out of 20 boats down here are sailboats, and of the trawlers, 4 out of 5 have stabilizers.

Discount the usefulness of waiting for a good weather window, generally a great weather window is 1.5 meters or 5 feet. Last season there were 3 meter days, 10 feet, day after day for weeks on end.
 
"The sensory deprivation can get to you during the day though.."

That's why books were invented.
 

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