Another Anchor Question

[Simi 60]

That's why you should arrive at you anchorage earlier then later so that you can sit through two tide changes while still daylight and see what happens during the 180's. .

Gee that's a perfect world you live in.

Surely its easier to just turn up when you do, drop an anchor and know its going to hold because you got more than suitable gear for any occasion.

The End.

 

[syjos]

Gee that's a perfect world you live in.

Surely its easier to just turn up when you do, drop an anchor and know its going to hold because you got more than suitable gear for any occasion.

The End.

I was recommending an early arrival to alleviate the fear of a tidal 180 in the middle of the night to the previous comment:

"What I fear is a 180 degree wind or tide shift in the middle of the night. When that happens it is up to the anchor to fend for itself as I am asleep and my anchoring skill (or lack of) will not matter."

 

[sunchaser]

What I fear is a 180 degree wind or tide shift in the middle of the night. When that happens it is up to the anchor to fend for itself as I am asleep and my anchoring skill (or lack of) will not matter.

Fear? I have found wind and tidal shifts to be the norm. So best to plan for it if you're covering some miles.

 

[psneeld]

I think Simi60 and I are recommending buying anchors where you don't have to fear 180's and can arrive at anchorages when you arrive, not near noon on days where the sun sets at 1700 and the next tide swing (plus significant current swing which is hard to predict the exact time in new to you areas) is after dark. Losing a half day cruising isn't always in the plan...


I went with a Nextgen anchor BECAUSE the overwhelming crowd sourced reports and many tests showed them clearly superior over older style anchors for quick sets and staying set rather than breakout and reset. Thus alleviating my worries of quick sets in emergencies and twist holding on wind/current shifts.

 

[rslifkin]

When it comes to 180s and such, I think that falls into the category of things you'll always trust more after seeing it work, no matter how much you know it'll be fine beforehand.

 

[psneeld]

I know taking antibiotics is better than "bleeding" like they did in the 1700's.


Even before doing either one.


Especially if I had experience with bleeding for decades before learning of the new tech and the research/public experience(reviews) behind it.

 

[syjos]

I think Simi60 and I are recommending buying anchors where you don't have to fear 180's and can arrive at anchorages when you arrive, not near noon on days where the sun sets at 1700 and the next tide swing (plus significant current swing which is hard to predict the exact time in new to you areas) is after dark. Losing a half day cruising isn't always in the plan...

Not every boater is as macho as psneeld and Simi60.

New boaters or seasoned boaters anchoring for the first time, as rslifkin stated, needs to experience the 180's in order to becoming comfortable with the tide changes.

Here in the PNW with huge tidal movement, there are many boaters with the latest, biggest, best anchors that still fear anchoring because of the tide reversals.

Many tie to shore or drop stern anchors to stop the rotation.

We've had boats raft up to us, and the seasoned owners, who always tied to shore, would get nervous or fearful as the raft rotated. After a couple tide changes, they stopped being frightened of tide swings.

 

[catalinajack]

I don't have the best anchor. I do have an anchor that, in an emergency, worked (set) so fast that I was flabbergasted. We were going north on the Johnson River just after existing Sapelo Sound at low tide. The channel is narrow. I lost focus for a few seconds and the 30mph beam wind helped to drive the boat out of the channel. I realized my error too late to recover and the boat was driven against a shoal. The tide was coming in but every time the boat floated free the wind and current drove the boat to the shoal. I could have dropped the anchor but, at the time, I did not think that doing so would hold the boat with no scope.

Anyway, I called the Coast Guard to notify them that I was stuck but out of the channel and not a hazard to navigation. The CG called a tow boat for us and instructed us to drop our anchor which, of course, I did. To my great surprise, that damn anchor set immediately and held the boat in place in spite of the current and 30 mph wind. The rising tide floated us free and it was a simple matter for the tow boat, when it arrived hours later, to hold us in place while we raised the anchor and then pull us well away from the shoal. We had no hope of getting off that shoal without help. And don't even mention kedging. Launching a dinghy in those conditions was out of the question, never mind deploying an 88# anchor on an all chain rode.

Oh, the anchor, it is a Manson Supreme. Is it the best anchor? I don't know. I am, however, now a big fan and see no good reason to try another brand or style. Just one boater's story.

Yeah great if you have that kind of luxury.


There are times that it just isn't either possible or convenient.


Or a single that lost power in a bad tidal current area and the tow is scheduled to arrive well after a tide shift.


Anchoring overnight can be done by anyone with any capabilities in many cases....but I want an anchor that saves my bacon in emergencies as well....THAT alone made me go with the anchor with the best reputation over the biggest swath of performance needs.

 

[Codger2]

Great argument for a twin versus single engine.

 

[Nomad Willy]

One dosn't IMO need an anchor that always stays hooked up w wind or current reversals. Most of the time under those conditions the anchor probably pulls out and resets. But the good anchors only take a few feet to reset. How are you going to know if the anchor rotated in place or broke out and reset? Unless it dragged a distance you’d never know.

I have an old anchor test (Practical Sailor I think) that was done in shallow water and observations were made as to what the anchor did. Most (as I recall) broke out and reset within a few feet. Some anchors dragged quite some distance before resetting. And some didn’t reset indicating the original set was probably luck. The only place where not breaking out would be better is while anchored in a seafloor whereas setting was frequently questionable.

 

[sbu22]

Nobody uses the Maintenance & Systems section anymore? Seems like this would be a good Anchors and Anchoring discussion that would be way easier to find for a TFer looking for info.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Eric, I don't think either uses ballast.

QUOTE=Peter B;844689]Eric, I don't think either uses ballast.[/QUOTE]

Peter the Excel I have on board has the ballast chamber. See pic.

But I was curious re all aluminum anchors w lead ballast. Perhaps the lead chambers are air/water tight to control corrosion.
One thing I like about this ballast anchor is that it's quite compact. It seems small for it's weight. With it's wide fluke and large diameter roll bar the SARCA seems huge. But they weigh about the same.

 

[BruceK]

When it comes to 180s and such, I think that falls into the category of things you'll always trust more after seeing it work, no matter how much you know it'll be fine beforehand.

If you can excavate TF for the SV Panope anchor tests, you can see them work. Steve did all kinds of set tests, incl scope shortening until failure, and reversal tests with power, and the results for what psneeld terms nexgen anchors was in many cases impressive. Whereas for some older designs, it was less so, some just did not reset.
I think Eric had a link for the tests, he might post it. There were a lot of them, and a summary/compilation. I don`t think anything fared better than a Sarca, but it was not the only good performer,by any means.

 

[Peter B]

QUOTE=Peter B;844689]Eric, I don't think either uses ballast.

Peter the Excel I have on board has the ballast chamber. See pic.
[/QUOTE]

OH Dear, sorry Eric, not having had an Excel in my hand so to speak, I was not sure just from the pictures.

However, coming back to the concern of the OP re trusting current/wind change re-sets, I think there is no question the next gen anchors are all much better at that than most older types. Here in Moreton Bay, virtually all the anchorages are in channels, so there is a 180º current/tide direction changes every 12 hours, and the S-Sarca never let us down in re-setting.

 

[Xlantic]

If you can excavate TF for the SV Panope anchor tests, you can see them work. Steve did all kinds of set tests, incl scope shortening until failure, and reversal tests with power, and the results for what psneeld terms nexgen anchors was in many cases impressive. Whereas for some older designs, it was less so, some just did not reset.
I think Eric had a link for the tests, he might post it. There were a lot of them, and a summary/compilation. I don`t think anything fared better than a Sarca, but it was not the only good performer,by any means.

Here is a link to a summary of Panope's anchor videos:

This is just the summary but there are many more videos.

 

[Spinner]

Eric, I believe that the alloy anchor is weighted, but not sure with what....the Ground Tackle Marine website doesn’t say (based on my quick look). I guess a follow up call to Nick or Chris there would answer the question!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sue,
I’ve never seen an alloy Excel.
I’ll try and call Chris Momday.

Re Steve’s “Anchor Setting Videos” it’s now on page 7 of our anchoring section. It’s easy to find as it’s the only thread w over 600 replies.

Re the reversals there’s a 209 reply thread on this subject. Page 4

 

[Spinner]

The alloy versions do exist! I love that it’s a functional replacement for my 66# Spade anchor but weighs only about 25# and comes apart into two pieces. It’s very easy to store and handle ....

 

[caltexflanc]

The worst, cheapest anchor set properly with lots of scope will usually hold better than the best anchor not set properly on less than ideal scope.

An oversized worst, cheap anchor will usually hold better than an undersized best anchor. A big enough rock used for an anchor will probably hold too.

There is too much emphasis on having the "best anchor" that will magically keep you in place irregardless of skill or technique.

Many boaters consider and purchase anchors for the "bling" factor.

Anchor selection should be based on the type of bottom that you may encounter, whether anchoring in tidal conditions where the boat does an 180 every 6 hours, the strongest wind that may be encountered and other factors.

I see every conceivable anchor being deployed by other boats while we are anchored. Some that I would never choose. We don't see that many boats dragging when the wind picks up.

Most dragging we see are right after anchoring. The result of inadequate scope and/or poor setting or no setting at all.

Seasoned boaters have their favorite anchor and simply upsize as they move up in boat size. If you have the same brand anchor for a long time, you will become accustomed to it's setting, handling and ideocycracies.

There are a lot of boaters, mostly sailboaters, that use CQR's without issues. I'd try out your CQR before replacing it. Anchor somewhere, preferably with wind, earlier in the day and sit through 2 tide changes and see how the anchor behaves.

Instead of buying a new anchor, I'd go to all chain instead of the chain/rope rode that you have.

Great post, and a big ditto from me!

 

[caltexflanc]

Sustained for a couple hours or so, from enough directions to wrap the ensign. Grand Banks 49MY. CQR anchor on all chain with a makeshift snubber secured by a rolling hitch. Off Indian Key in the 10,000 Islands, Florida.

 

[firehoser75]

Jim,
My advice would be to find a "Next Gen" anchor that "fits your bow" set up! I would also suggest that you not worry too much about price differences between anchor brands. Why, because you are really only concerned with the difference, and that amount is minor when it comes to the value of your boat, equipment, and to say nothing about your own well being and peace of mind!
If Spade, Rocna, Vulcan, etc. seem like the best choice for your boat and cruising needs, then buy the one that makes sense for you based on the research you are doing.

From my research, it seems that Rocna, Vulcan (have used both and am very happy with either), Spade, Manson, Sarca, and Ultra are all good anchors, and there are probably others as well. Functionality and value are what should be of most concern, not just price tag IMHO.
Good luck,
Tom

 

[rgano]

From my research, it seems that Rocna, Vulcan (have used both and am very happy with either), Spade, Manson, Sarca, and Ultra are all good anchors, and there are probably others as well. Functionality and value are what should be of most concern, not just price tag IMHO.
Good luck,
Tom

Don't know why SuperMax didn't make it into that coverage.

 

[firehoser75]

Don't know why SuperMax didn't make it into that coverage.

Probably simply because I am not familiar with that one. and that is why I added the part about there probably being others.

 

[rgano]

Probably simply because I am not familiar with that one. and that is why I added the part about there probably being others.

If you have the time, it is a worthy one to get acquainted with.

 

[Nomad Willy]

rango,
I’m quite familiar w most anchors new and old.
But we all tend to familiarize ourselves w the anchors we like. And we like them for various reasons. Some anchors are liked/disliked because of how they look .. like sculpture. I have an art/design past and am drawn to anchors for this reason. Some are drawn to a specific anchor because someone they respect likes them and perhaps uses them. Kinda like joining the club the guru belongs to. Others buy because they read an anchor test that said a certain anchor was best or that the numbers say it had the highest holding power or that some other aspect of performance like setting, short scope setting/holding or the ability to set in unusual and difficult sea bottoms. Hard bottoms, grass ect.

But for whatever reasons one uses a certain anchor there’s no reason to expect others to talk about your anchor as they are thinking about their own anchor and perhaps a few others. And most are only familiar w a few anchors. Usually the ones they like or use.

But to berate somebody because they don’t talk about YOUR favorite anchor should’nt be permissible. I am not a moderator but I like talking about anchors and your post drives people away from anchor talk.

 

[Peter B]

Don't know why SuperMax didn't make it into that coverage.

Could it be because they are such an ugly and awkward looking anchor, that folk just don't feel they will dig in well because of the rather weird fluke shapes..? Also they look awkward to handle, even though they clearly do fit modern bowsprits..?

http://maxmarineproducts.com/supermax-anchors/

PS, don't mind my mate Eric over-reacting a bit there. It's just he takes anchor discussions very seriously...

 

[Nomad Willy]

Peter com on man,
Ugly ??? the most beautiful curves .. especially the crossways curve of the fluke.
I was inspired to make one of my best Mods after the three fluke tips on the Max.
Anchor worked great. Still have it.

 

[rgano]

But for whatever reasons one uses a certain anchor there’s no reason to expect others to talk about your anchor as they are thinking about their own anchor and perhaps a few others. And most are only familiar w a few anchors. Usually the ones they like or use.

But to berate somebody because they don’t talk about YOUR favorite anchor should’nt be permissible. I am not a moderator but I like talking about anchors and your post drives people away from anchor talk.

It seems you have just accused me of "berating" you or somebody else about not being familiar with an anchor type. I suggest that interpretation is not only entirely incorrect but also suggests a rather breezy approach to reading the posts involved with an agenda on your part. What gives? I approached the topic in the most completely open handed manner possible only offering that a quite look at another alternative could prove useful. I am not now nor have ever intend to be snarky on this list and offer my best advice or experience for the good of all. I suggest you withdraw that comment, sir.

 

[DennisB1]

I have a GB49 which loaded weighs about 70000 lbs. Came with a 30kg bruce which was difficult to set and drug anchor in 70 to 80 kn gusts. Now have a Rocna Vulcan 55kg which sets reliably if you have scope of 3 or more and holds much better than the smaller Bruce. Using an all chain rode. I could easily pull the Bruce through the bottom with both engines idling in reverse not so with the Vulcan. I have not had the Vulcan in the same wind conditions yet as the Bruce. The Bruce was always hard to hoist which suggests is was well dug into the bottom when the chain was straight down.

 

[firehoser75]

Hi Dennis,
I can tell you from experience, the Vulcan can be difficult to retrieve as well!
After one season and about 80 nights at anchor, I can say that my only complaints would be how difficult it can be to retrieve and how much mud it sometimes brings up. Both good problems to have when discussing anchors. As I stated earlier, I am sure there are other good anchors!