Anchor type advice needed

[Conrad]

We cruise out of Campbell River, and so our primary cruising areas are Desolation Sound, Von Donop Inlet (my favourite), the northern area around Cameleon Harbour etc., and the Broughtons.
Generally I find that the bottom is a gooey mud that has excellent holding, and most places are relatively well sheltered.
Blue Sky, our Nordic Tug 42, weighs in at 35,000 pounds and so we have equipped her with 400' of galvanized 5/16" chain and a 73# Rocna 33. Our Windlass is a Lofrans Tigress 1500w. (Part of our rational is that we are at some point planning on cruising to Alaska)
With the above combination we have never had a hint of issues; seldom do I go beyond a 3:1 scope, but of course if there is a nasty forecast I'll go more. Never ever had a setting problem or a drag.
Our previous 32' boat came with a Danforth which was problematic. When we switched to a Rocna I had to learn how to anchor all over again as it set quite abruptly. And no more dragging or fouling.

 

[Hippocampus]

Had a Rocna which worked great even at 3:1 when necessary everywhere except the loose mud of the Chesapeake. Then a fortress was the go to. But the next boat will have a Spade. Many of the nextgens won’t reset in a reasonable distance. I hate getting up from sleep to reset an anchor. Nearly impossible to compare reports of anchor testing by different protocols in different places. . Too many variables so testing reflects that reality. So think it wise to read all available testing realizing scores and rating will vary and then pick the one that consistently scores well regardless of who tested it. My personal vote is a Fortress for loose mud and a nextgen as the daily. Among the nextgens like Spade and Excel.
Still believe in all chain, two snubbers, 5:1 to 7:1 as the daily and 10:1 at force 8 and above. Don’t believe in kellets but rather weight or lunch hook dragging on the bottom if sailing at anchor. Do think sailing at anchor is annoying but also decreases holding power.

 

[psneeld]

My guess a few if not most manufacturers don't go big and neither do many boaters is they don't plan on anchoring through strong gales or hurricanes.

I get the theory every time you anchor you should prepare for the worst.

Often true in many parts of the world and the way one cruises....it necessary and caution dictates.

For others it is a waste of money and effort to equip and set up for that every day. And yes I have the experience to have the that opininion too.

If you want to be 100% prepared for anything..... go big and go early.

 

[rslifkin]

If the chain is g43 or better, the 3/8 should be ok. If it's BBB or g30, it's way too weak. And both of those anchors are too small in my book. I've got slightly heavier on a 38 footer at 26-27k lbs.

 

[Peter B]

I’m leaning towards putting a 113lb (#13) Excel on in place of the cqr. Skip going the Ultra route. Stay with galvanized chain.

Point of order, the #13 Excel = 138lb, or 68kg (from their chart), however...a #11 which is 120lb, or 55 kg would also probably be more than adequate - whichever you get, you do that, and you will be fine.

 

[backinblue]

I watched some videos by Steve Goodwin, suggested above. Wow, I love his passion and determination to test!

The Sarca Excel topped the list, and certainly averaged better than both mine, though there was a more recent one that seemed even better.

The ultra is common on my model boat, but didn’t test as well by Steve and seemed expensive, though very pretty.

Don't dismiss the Ultra. I haven't watched this particular test but it does well in many tests. I love mine. Aside from the pretty factor, mud rarely sticks to the stainless. Mine usually comes up clean while others are hosing off lots of mud.

 

[jclays]

I would keep the genuine Bruce. I have had a Bruce on my previous boat for 16 years and it has never pulled. On my recently purchased ( one year ago) I upgraded the setup on the boat with another original Bruce. They are getting harder to find and command a steep price here in So California.

 

[La Sirena]

My Selene 57, 100,000 lbs came with a 130lb CQR and a Bruce each with 300 feet of grade 43 7/16" chain. The CQR has a rusted fluke and I'm replacing it with a #15 Sarca Excel, 194lb. My cruising will be East Coast, West Coast and everywhere in between. I can't remember who said, "your anchor isn't big enough until people on the dock laugh at you" but it's a good way to look at it.

 

[bowball]

I would keep the genuine Bruce. I have had a Bruce on my previous boat for 16 years and it has never pulled. On my recently purchased ( one year ago) I upgraded the setup on the boat with another original Bruce. They are getting harder to find and command a steep price here in So California.

Ha! Maybe I need to sell my Bruce and CQR! How steep is steep?

 

[Dick Geving]

Good one.

 

[Bryant]

Anchor

I have a new to me 60’ and 80,000lb gross displacement trawler that I intend to cruise Desolation Sound and the Broughtons in British Columbia with.

I was looking at the adequacy of the gear it came with for that area, and whether more modern anchor designs would be preferred. I’m willing to invest here as I want piece of mind holding plusneasy to deploy and retrieve.

The existing windlass needs service but it is a Lofrans Falcon 12V 1500W

The two anchors carried in the bow are for the Port bowsprit. 60 lb CQR with. 100’ 3/8th” chain and 250’ nylon rode. The starboard is a 30kg Bruce anchor and 400’ of 3/8” chain.

I’ve seen more modern anchor designs like the Ultra etc.

What are recommendations for a good combination for these areas? And chain to carry.

I’ve looked at many of the threads here.

I really like Mantus anchors, bridles, snubbers etc. I have a total Mantus system and I've never dragged anchor and it sets easily every time. I use all chain. If you have the ability to carry two anchors, I'd have a Mantus with all chain and a Fortress with chain and nylon for your second.

 

[Simi 60]

Don't dismiss the Ultra. I haven't watched this particular test but it does well in many tests. I love mine. Aside from the pretty factor, mud rarely sticks to the stainless. Mine usually comes up clean while others are hosing off lots of mud.

Get a decent deck wash
Takes all of a few minutes to hose the mud off our 150lb Manson supreme
Chain takes longer to clean
Not worth an additional $5000 plus to solve by buying a s/s anchor

 

[Peter B]

Originally Posted by backinblue...
Don't dismiss the Ultra. I haven't watched this particular test but it does well in many tests. I love mine. Aside from the pretty factor, mud rarely sticks to the stainless. Mine usually comes up clean while others are hosing off lots of mud.

Get a decent deck wash
Takes all of a few minutes to hose the mud off our 150lb Manson supreme
Chain takes longer to clean
Not worth an additional $5000 plus to solve by buying a s/s anchor

Fair comment. One thing if you inherit a nice shiny Ultra when it comes with the boat you bought, but to buy in cold blood, just for the bling, and slightly better mud-shedding virtue, and at their price premium..?

 

[Mako]

A smooth coating will also help shed mud faster. The best would be powered coating but that gets expensive. I used some industrial 2-part epoxy floor paint from my construction project on my Danforth and that worked fine. Don't forget to use an etching-primer on galvanized though.

 

[backinblue]

Originally Posted by backinblue...
Don't dismiss the Ultra. I haven't watched this particular test but it does well in many tests. I love mine. Aside from the pretty factor, mud rarely sticks to the stainless. Mine usually comes up clean while others are hosing off lots of mud.

Fair comment. One thing if you inherit a nice shiny Ultra when it comes with the boat you bought, but to buy in cold blood, just for the bling, and slightly better mud-shedding virtue, and at their price premium..?

I didn't buy it for the bling or the mud-shedding, those come free with the big bucks spent to buy it! I bought it because at the time I thought it was the best all-around anchor on the market, and that's what I wanted regardless of price. (keep in mine, my boat is smaller than most here). We can argue all day over which anchor is best, I'm just saying I'm happy with the purchase. I also purchased a new rode this year which is nylon/chain combo and I bought the best stainless chain I could find, so little mud sticks to that too. The real reason for the stainless chain was to eliminate any galvanic reaction between the stainless anchor and swivel and galvanized chain. Extra bling is included. Let the criticisim begin, I can take it, but you won't change my mind.

 

[rslifkin]

If you already want a stainless anchor, the Ultra compares well. The problem is, there's no galvanized version. So if you want a less pretty, slightly harder to clean anchor that's a fraction of the price, it's just not viable. I could have gone a size bigger on my current anchor, bought a spare and still come out below the cost of an Ultra (or most other stainless options).

 

[Peter B]

Get a decent deck wash
Takes all of a few minutes to hose the mud off our 150lb Manson supreme
Chain takes longer to clean
Not worth an additional $5000 plus to solve by buying a s/s anchor

I didn't buy it for the bling or the mud-shedding, those come free with the big bucks spent to buy it! I bought it because at the time I thought it was the best all-around anchor on the market, and that's what I wanted regardless of price. (keep in mine, my boat is smaller than most here). We can argue all day over which anchor is best, I'm just saying I'm happy with the purchase. I also purchased a new rode this year which is nylon/chain combo and I bought the best stainless chain I could find, so little mud sticks to that too. The real reason for the stainless chain was to eliminate any galvanic reaction between the stainless anchor and swivel and galvanized chain. Extra bling is included. Let the criticisim begin, I can take it, but you won't change my mind.

And fair enough too. You chose it for the right reason, (although I suspect the Excel performs better than an Ultra, and I think is even available in stainless..?), but of course, having gone stainless, it made good sense to also go that way for your rode. Just be happy, and stay safe - from dragging anchor, and covid..!

 

[backinblue]

Thanks. I won't argue that stiasnless is expensive and the the Excel is likely a very fine anchor too. I'm happy and confident in my setup and it always works great.

 

[Caballero II]

anchor follies

Bottom types vary so no single anchor will be best, if you can handle it go as heavy as you can. Where I am a Danforth High Tensile works great but that may not work for you. Interestingly I just sold a Rocna that frequently refused to set.

I find that interesting, and wonder what substrate you're working in. In the SoCal Channel Islands, sand and/or rubble and rocks, I had my 20 kg Bruce drag with plenty of consequences. I replaced it with a 20 kg Rocna, which repeatedly sets so hard it gets my attention with the boat in slow reverse. I got rid of the Bruce.

I do wish I had more than 200' 3/8" chain (more like 400"). I have plenty of nylon road, but transitioning between chain and rope rode takes a little planning. I'd rather just lay out the chain, then add a good long nylon bridle for shock absorption.

 

[Hippocampus]

Read the above and note working with several of the next gen anchors work much better if you change your technique.
Have come to believe many people ruin the set of their anchors by backing down too aggressively and way too early. Have found this to be true with the Rocna and others. We generally dive our anchor or at least when coming in follow the chain with the dinghy and look at our set as part of our routine.
Our routine
Drop the anchor. With a high speed reverse on the windlass lay out your chain. In no wind a tap of main engine reverse maybe required.
Set up your double snubbers.
Go do other stuff for ~10 minutes or more.
Put engine in idle reverse for a few minutes.
Do other stuff but stay on the boat. We use the gps. Anchor watch or other program. But also using a golf rangefinder triangulate our distances and write them down. Find this gets us down to feet in a reliable way. Also shoot our neighbors to make sure our swing circles won’t overlap.
Once we’ve been stationary for 1/2-1 hour leave if we want.
If we’re really worried about the substrate only after 1/2 hour will we back down and then slowly increasing revs.
Anchors need to dig. Anchors need to settle through mud, gravel, loose sand for awhile before enough fluke is in to give resistance. Otherwise they skip partially engaged. In those setting see people drop, drag and move to another spot over and over again. See anchors that have a decent early set so can resist a good backdown but are partially pulled out. Then with the 2am squall or T storm drag.
I had >20 years of one technique drilled into my head. Not backing down firmly went truly against my grain. I’m glad I’ve changed my attitude from more experienced mariners ragging on me.

 

[rslifkin]

Generally I don't wait to back down, but unless the wind has done it for me, I just gently bring up tension, then 1 engine idle reverse until the rode is stretching indicating a solid hold and we point to the wind. Then put the second engine in reverse, wait for 0 boat speed for a good few seconds, then increase to 900 - 1000 rpm and confirm no movement. The only time that's failed with my Vulcan I was at short scope (3:1) and it turned out that I had basically dropped it in a pile of cobblestone.

Being heavy, having a ballasted tip and a sharp point seems to be enough that a gentle pull will dig it in enough that it'll continue to dig as you pull harder. In medium mud or anything soft, it'll bury right to the top of the shank with that method. Even if there's no wind it'll have mud all the way up on retrieval.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Hippo that’s a lot of time wasted if one or two tries fail .. at the end of you’re routine.

And if your anchor is slow to set get another.

rslifkin 1000 rpm w two engines is a lot of thrust for an anchor on a fairly light boat. However if you’re exposed to waves …..

 

[backinblue]

My anchor sets before it hits the water! But seriously, once it's deployed and adequate scope (generaly in the 4 or 5:1 range), it will hold even with some reverse thrust. Usually, I will deploy the anchor. Let the wind push us back or add a slight reverse, once the rode is essentially tight, add a small reverse thrust for 30 sec or so, see that the boat swings immediately to point at the anchor and we are not moving, then shut down the engine. After that, we are usually done for the night.

 

[bowball]

OP here. Going forward a 100lb Ultra for one sid (the factory equips them with 77lb Ultras). May add an Excel on the other. Maybe prices have come down on the Ultras as much lower than what was suggested here, but it was more convenient to do this now at first.

 

[BruceK]

OP here. Going forward a 100lb Ultra for one sid (the factory equips them with 77lb Ultras). May add an Excel on the other. Maybe prices have come down on the Ultras as much lower than what was suggested here, but it was more convenient to do this now at first.

Just out of interest,what does an Excel around 77lbs cost over there? I`d expect freight from Australia would add significant cost,but sometimes pricing here is surprisingly high compared to exported Oz made products sold overseas. I paid $700 AUD for a No.5 Excel(22kg = 48lbs) direct from Sarca, incl freight Melbourne to Sydney(800km by road).

 

[Hippocampus]

NW we anchored 99% of the time for 8 years while full time cruising. Crushed coral, loose mud, heavy weed, packed sand, dirt on top of ledge. You name it. Was using a Rocna and very rarely a danforth when conditions required. Often in fresh breeze or with occasional squalls. Yes, I’ve changed my practice in response to what other more experienced cruisers explained to me and then from the result of my own experience. It’s not the weight of the anchor but rather the resistance of the substrate above it that translates to holding power. If you disturb the substrate above the anchor it will remain disturbed and generate less resistance from that point forward. Gentle pull on the anchor will allow it to continue to dig in over time further without much disturbance of the overlying substrate. We dived or looked at our anchor daily. Over several days (and not with a few minutes of backing down) it would bury completely. Using the new technique we never moved an inch. Big downfall of roll bar nextgens is the possibility of dislodged with significant shifts in current or wind. When fully buried had occasions the shank didn’t ****, the anchor stayed fully buried and the boat stayed put in sustained 20 to 30. Anchor weight is helpful in getting the anchor buried. Holding power is increased by increased fluke area as well. But the key issue is how much substrate is above the anchor and is it sufficiently compacted to offer good resistance.
On this I think we’ll agree to disagree.

 

[Peter B]

Excellent point Hippo, where you say..."Gentle pull on the anchor will allow it to continue to dig in over time further without much disturbance of the overlying substrate."

With my S-Sarca, that's all I ever did. Drop it down, lay back slowly letting out enough chain, then just let it sit, and let current /wind set her, then fit snubber. If it was for the night, after some time, I'd just back down at idle to confirm a firm set, then head for bed. Never let us down.

 

[rsn48]

I have found once you have had to cut an anchor loose, you kind of rethink the whole stainless steel thing.

 

[DennisB1]

I have a 49 GB at 75000 lbs. Currently use a Lofrans falcon with 3/8 G4 high tensil chain (400 ft) The anchor is a rocna vulcan 55kg galvanized. Works great, sets easily with 3 to 1 minimum scope. Typically anchor with 5 to 1 scope. I had a Bruce 30kg but found it was difficult to set and dragged anchor in mud in Reed Harbor in storm with 70 to 80 mph gusts a number of years ago. (reason the the 55kg vulcan). Pulling anchor requires bring in chain until the boat is directly over the anchor then let the anchor rotate toward before hauling. The winch will stall if you directly try to lift the anchor with out stopping. Negative is the anchor may come up with a big load of mud in some anchorages.

 

[Art]

Not wanting to get into debate details as to exactly how/what I feel is best actions taken to deploy, set or retrieve any anchor... I will say the following:

Anchor "Whispering" is the best way. In other words... slow n' easy while deploying, setting, retrieving. Take it all slow n' easy. Think, feel and act it through! Whisper and your anchor will have time to listen and correctly react to your wishes!