advice re boat

[Keith]

Figures. When I wanted to buy a Duck in 2001, there were NO used ones on the market. I didn't really have the patience to have Seahorse build one from scratch. Now it appears there are several on the market, but I'm happy with my Krogen 42 now.

 

[Baker]

Keith wrote:

, but I'm happy with my Krogen 42 now.

You damn well better be.* That is a very fine boat!!!!

*

 

[FF]

"You damn well better be.That is a very fine boat!!!!"


It is nice , but the Duck was contemplated for Ocean Service , not sure a Krogen 42 would do a circle.

I know folks have gone round , with very carefully watching the weather , and never seen over 35K, but its being caught out that is a fear , as is range.

Trips to the Galapegos can require over 4000nm legs.

Then there is stabelization ,

Fine boat , but for a different style cruising.

 

[Baker]

I agree FF. Not everyone wants go around the world. If I were to do that, a Diesel Duck would be very high on my list. The KK42 is just a great cruising vessel....Island hopper with the legs to a little bit more extended passages.....weather considered.

 

[sunchaser]

I've been on a Duck. They serve their purpose very well - single handed or two at most. But if I had my druthers I'd do an around the world on a (somewhat larger than 42) Nordhavn or Krogen* and leave the Duck at home. Some like spartan, some like comfort. And some like to take friends and family without having them live and squirm*on each others lap for weeks on end. Perish the thought. Yeah yeah I know the Duck is low cost, but so is driving a 20 year old beater vs a new car. Different strokes.*

 

[FF]

"I know the Duck is low cost, |

For a round trip ,, i would look for about a 50-60 ft steel cutter.

Steel cause nobody in the US understands them so they are cheap.

Cutter as there would only be 2 or 3 of us , and I like sailing fast.

With the usual Aux fitted , and fuel capacity of a 50-60 fter she would travel far cheaper than a Krogen or Nordy as the sail displacement hull makes no pretense about speed.
So the fuel burn at the same speed (SL 1.15 cruise) would be lower.

And I would expect the voyage to be done FASTER than with a Nordy or similar as the days where the cutter would be traveling at hull speed would knock time of the cheapo SL 1.15 the marine motorist needs to obtain some range.

FF

 

[pallares]

HI FF...is there not an advantage to having a steel boat in the PNW where there are a lot of logs and dead heads??

thanx
fp

 

[Marin]

Frank---

Steel or aluminum does have an advantage in the PNW with regards to the debris in the water. Steel boats have their disadvantages, however, particularly in a recreational boat, by which I mean a boat that doesn't have a full-time crew aboard to deal with things like chipping or needle-gunning rust, painting, removing moisture from inside the hull, etc. We have friends who used to own a 70' converted steel fireboat. It was an ongoing task to keep the bilges dry. Most steel boats that develop rust problems rust through from the inside out, so it's imperative to keep the inside of the hull dry. Exhaust system leaks, rainwater, shaft log leaks, hull and superstructure "sweating," and a whole bunch of other things can conspire to put water in the bilge.

Aluminum is a very popular material in this area for commercial fishboats. They're not cheap to build, but they eliminate the rust issue of a steel boat and the bow can be built heavy enough to take the hits of logs. Unlike most recreational boaters up here, the commercial boats routinely run at night. Of course they can corrode so one has to be careful with the electricity on the boat. To see the products of an aluminum boat manufacturer in our area (northern Puget Sound) take a look at this website** http://www.rozemaboatworks.com/products.html*

Wood boats in the PNW, BC, and SE Alaska dealt with the logs, deadheads, and other debris in the water (including ice) by the installation of an external layer of replaceable planking on either side of the bow and often along the waterline as well. (see photos).

With a fiberglass boat you just have to be careful. This is one reason most recreational boaters up here don't make a habit of running at night, and when we do many of us have "log lights" which are permanent or removeable lights that illuminate the water ahead of us. The water doesn't reflect light back but logs, crab pot buoys, etc. do. The lights are mounted in such a way that they do not light up any part of the boat in front of the helmsman.

And of course, it doesn't matter what the hull is made of if you whack a prop or rudder into a log or wind a crab pot line around them. Steel, aluminum, wood, or glass, the end result is the same.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 12th of July 2009 01:27:33 AM

 

[pallares]

thanx again verymuch...i think ...after talking to the harbour master in ana cortes...apparently there are quite a few boats that have been* repo by the bank so i think that's the way i will go...walk the docks and talk to a lot of people and then decide....so far from cayman and the internet i am heading towards a pacific tug type of boat in the 40-50 sice...but god knows what i will end up with when i actually start looking at boats...


again all your thoughts are greatly appreciated
fp

 

[Marin]

Be sure to check out the Nordic Tug if you are interested in a tug-type boat. They've been building boats up here since 1980 and today are available in lengths from the original 26' to 52' (I think that's correct). The most popular and numerous models are the 26', 32', and 37.' Another popular tug, but much newer to the market, is the American Tug. I believe they are available in 34', 41' and 49' (?) models.

Our favorite, and we have come come close to buying one in the past and have also considered selling our GB for one, is the Lord Nelson Victory Tug. No longer made, they were built in 37' and 49' models. In terms of quality, design, and aesthetics they are by far the best of the recreational tug models.

 

[FF]

As properly designed and constructed steel boat will be far different from a GRP or aluminum vessel.

The entire interior , will be designed to be removed EASILY.

Yes ,"Easily" does create extra work on the build but nothing difficult.

Every 15 years or so the entire interior can be yanked to expose ALL of the hull,
The hull gets sandblasted and painted 6 or 7 coatings.

Then the interior is replaced , usually after a complete redo.

Flat bar , not T or L in the hull reinforcement helps the blasting/painting process.

Since the interior is out of the vessel, refinishing , rebuilding or replacing is far less labor intensive , and in most parts of the world LABOR is most of what is paid for.

So if a vessel is kept in great condition Steel is no more costly than the rest.

A friend had this done in Poland about 10 years ago, brought his own paint , and new wiring , and the bill was $5,000US for a 2 month process.Did the outside too.

FF

-- Edited by FF on Sunday 12th of July 2009 04:34:22 AM

 

[Nomad Willy]

Lord Nelson? Too much rocker in the sheer and way too much in the house. The basic concept is great but executed too cutesy cutesy. They remind me of a little tugboat cartoon. Don't know anything about their mechanics or construction and if I did I may be inclined to overlook trite styling or whatever. But if you want a FD yacht there's not many boats to choose from. I wonder if my Willard is going up in value due to the fuel cost issue? I hav'nt read this whole thread so it may have been dealt with but if I was looking for another boat I'd be very concerned about bulsa core contrruction. I wonder if one could be better off w a wood boat maintenance wise than a bulsa core FG boat. I wonder if anyone has ever written a really objective compairison of FG and wood. It may be closer than we think. Having said that Marin perhaps you should buy the David B. Baker's right** .. the Krogen is one fine boat. I can be a very critical person (as most of you know) but the only thing I can find wrong w the Krogen is that in my opnion the boat is a bit too tall** ..* topsides and especially the wheelhouse. But then thats one of the reasons the GB is a bit wet, it may not be tall enough. Marin, what else have you considered? It's a shock to me that you would consider anything but a GB and I'm sure I'm not alone in my shocked state. Oh Marin, Look at the way those guys have the David B blocked up. That keel is going to remain straight** .. assuming it was when it was hanging in the slings. Looks like the Donna is moored next to a boat w a bad helmsman. I'm going for a run to Petersburg*** ..* be back in a week.

Eric Henning

 

[Marin]

nomadwilly wrote:

Lord Nelson? Too much rocker in the sheer and way too much in the house. The basic concept is great but executed too cutesy cutesy.

Depend on what you think a tugboat should look like.* If you look at the tugs that worked New York harbor in the 1920s through 1970s or so, you see*what basically looks like a Lord Nelson Victory Tugs on steroids.* They all had that high bow, very curved sheer, and the pilothouse and main cabin followed the sheer.* I used to build models of them as*a kid.

What DOESTN'T look much like a real tug are the Nordic Tugs and (even less) the American Tugs.* I'm not disparaging their seaworthiness, quality, etc., only their aesthetics.* But one reason we were--- and still are--- so drawn to the Victory Tug is that it actually does look like a working tug from the "golden years" of tugs.



*


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 13th of July 2009 11:50:58 AM

 

[Marin]

FF wrote:

As properly designed and constructed steel boat will be far different from a GRP or aluminum vessel.

The entire interior , will be designed to be removed EASILY.

What you say sounds correct, but from what I've seen your theory does not match reality.* The steel boats I've been on over the years--- ranging from the aforementioned converted fireboat to the completely restored former President of Mexico's yacht---*did not have "removable interiors."*

In the case of the yacht, built in (I believe) the 1930s or thereabouts, the man who bought it had it completely gutted in a shipyard in Oakland in (I think) the 1970s.* After everything had been removed from the interior of the hull and the*inside and outside taken down to clean metal, *the yardmaster called the owner down to "take a look at something."* They went into the darkened hull and the owner told me (many years later) that it was like looking up at the stars, there were so many pinholes.* But he had loved the yacht since first seeing it before WWII and finally was able to acquire it several decades later,*so he had a complete new steel hull fabricated around the old one.* The total restoration bill was several million dollars.* However, the owner was from an "old oil money" family and could well afford to do this.* I was on board this fantail*yacht several times (I think it was about 115 feet long) and it was absolutely gorgeous.* It was like going back to the heyday of the 1930s, and the owner could afford to keep it*in perfect condition.* But the interior was anything but "easily removeable."

*

 

[FF]

The boats I have seen that were built to be maintained were all post WWII Euro built as cruisers, sail or motor sail .

Before then, Labor was so cheap , and boats so disposable ("If you have to ask') that the less than very rich were not cruising much.

Old scrapped work boats boats were the staple of Slocum, Tillman and other pioneers .

FF