A dearth of trawlers in the Adriatic and Ionian

[Hydraulicjump]

We have spent much of the last month messing around in boats in the Adriatic—principally the Croatian coast—and the Ionian. Other than the crushing number or tourists (we refer to them as turoids) in the towns that cruise ships have access to, we have been very pleased with these cruising grounds, especially coming from the PNW and its cold water environs. And my goodness the food is much better. Most of the folks on this forum have spent some time here, and there are multiple threads focused on cruising here.

But what we (as PNW cruisers with history in sailboats) were so struck by was the dearth of trawler-like boats. The area is dominated by monohull sailboats, followed by charter (mostly) catamarans, and go-fast powerboats with hairy-chested men with gold necklaces at the helm. Trawlers like ours show up now and then, but they are not terribly common. Is this cultural or does it reflect cruising conditions?

I know that there are trawler-like boats here. I saw some of them. And the sailboats were often acting as trawlers (meaning they motored—like they do in the PNW—instead of sailing). But still, there is a striking dearth of trawlers compared to other boats. And after med-mooring a catamaran in a 20 kt cross breeze, I will take my stodgy Helmsman 38e any day in close quarters maneuvering.

Just an observation, nothing more. I bet there are a bunch of trawlers elsewhere. I just did not see them!

 

[Mac2]

I heard Croatia is some of the best cruising in the world. Wondering if there are plenty of anchorages within easy reach.

 

[balder8]

We have spent much of the last month messing around in boats in the Adriatic—principally the Croatian coast—and the Ionian. Other than the crushing number or tourists (we refer to them as turoids) in the towns that cruise ships have access to, we have been very pleased with these cruising grounds, especially coming from the PNW and its cold water environs. And my goodness the food is much better. Most of the folks on this forum have spent some time here, and there are multiple threads focused on cruising here.

But what we (as PNW cruisers with history in sailboats) were so struck by was the dearth of trawler-like boats. The area is dominated by monohull sailboats, followed by charter (mostly) catamarans, and go-fast powerboats with hairy-chested men with gold necklaces at the helm. Trawlers like ours show up now and then, but they are not terribly common. Is this cultural or does it reflect cruising conditions?

I know that there are trawler-like boats here. I saw some of them. And the sailboats were often acting as trawlers (meaning they motored—like they do in the PNW—instead of sailing). But still, there is a striking dearth of trawlers compared to other boats. And after med-mooring a catamaran in a 20 kt cross breeze, I will take my stodgy Helmsman 38e any day in close quarters maneuvering.

Just an observation, nothing more. I bet there are a bunch of trawlers elsewhere. I just did not see them!

Hello, what you say is absolutely true. In Europe, trawlers started to be more appreciated after energy costs increase and ''politically correct" developments about pollution, "small planet on fire'' discussion etc. The process started with the Beneteau 42 st, in fact a very good boat regardind price etc but a true semi planning boat, so far from Robert Beebe philosophy..Considering italian aristocracy of fast planning boats for people unable to handle a sailing yacht or looking for comfortable condos on water like Azimuts, or Princess and Fairlines from UK, the ST 42 introduced a kind of romantism, on the slow mode: in fact, definetly cheaper than a GB and more easy to buy in Europe.
I can tell you that when I come in a marina with my North sea trawler 57, there is always somebody to come to me and ask: is this a conversion boat, are you an ex fisherman? The add on of horizontal foldaways paravanes is "le clou du spectacle": what hell are you doing with these arms??? I answer with patience they are oftenly used in PNW, Austrialia or NZ as stabilizers or a back up to hydraulic stabilizers..All is matter or maritime culture, knowledge and also traditions. Something has changed a little bit and more and more sailors are going on the dark side and are enjoying real trawlers ( less noise and vibrations, safety atsea, long passages, minus diesel consumption) but it is still a 'niche market" for experienced yachtmen and admirals or else or other salty dogs near their 50- 60 or more.Now a new concept is developing and if you add the word Explorer to the marketing brochure, you are the king of the boat show.
Last, I must admit that with my keel cooling cheminey on the flybridge ( fortunately my brillant JD 6081 AFM 75 heavh duty M1 doesn't emit rude smokes) , I feel like Sir Lawrence of Arabia, "arab in a british communauty and so british in an arab communauty" . To be clear, a stranger to sailors and as well a stranger in the small world of bling-bling new money fast motorboat owners. But I do not take care because I am pretty sure they are all jealous of my brave Dutch steel passagemaker

I

 

[Mambo42]

I heard Croatia is some of the best cruising in the world. Wondering if there are plenty of anchorages within easy reach.

There are still anchorages in Croatia, but you need to know where to find them. Many bays nowadays have mooring fields, operated by private people who managed to get a license (i.o.w. they paid off the right persons). You will be charged between 50 and 100 euro per night (sometimes even up to 150 euro per night) and for garbage disposal they will charge extra. Problem is that these buoys are not maintained and in heavy weather they are known to fail. Always check Navily for the experiences of others, they will tell you if buoys have failed or not.
Using their own anchor is only a small portion of the charter boats, however for some reason blow boaters like to be as close as they can to other boats. It seems to be some sort of disease and when you ask them to take some more distance from you, for safety purposes, they simply don't understand why that would be necessary. However, when you anchor in depths of around 15 mtrs you won't find a lot of blow boaters next to you, it is simply too deep for them.
The majority of the charter boats (and also the fast motor yachts) can be found in the ports and marinas down the beaten path (the standard places like Zadar, Split, Trogit, Hvar, Dubrovnik, Solta, Brac etc), so as long as you stay away from those you won't have to deal with the daily madness. On Youtube you can find enough videos of all the madness and damages in the ports and marinas, those videos are fun to watch, but it is not fun to be in one of those marinas / ports when the boats start coming in. You simply cannot leave your boat unattended, chances are you come back and you have sustained damage, but the culprit who did it is long gone. So you will have to be alert from the moment you enter the marina / port until 7 or 8 in the evening.
If you find yourself a nice anchorage (sometimes only large enough for one boat) the best idea is to move there on a Friday or Saturday. Those are the change out days for the charter boats, which means it is relatively quiet. Then you position your boat and don't move anymore for as long as possible (until you get a storm or until the next change over).
This is what we did this summer, in the end staying for close to a month in an anchorage during the high season madness. Once that was over we started to move again and at the moment we are in Mali Losinj, sheltering for some more bad weather. The days before we were mostly on anchor in bays that are now mostly empty.

So yes, it is possible to find anchorages, but you have to plan ahead. If it is close to a popular destination it is going to be busy. The further you are away from the popular places the more chance you have to find a quiet bay. And of course come during the off season, so not in July and August.

 

[Hippocampus]

Only have US east coast and eastern Caribbean chain experience.
In the Caribbean anchorages are in horseshoe shaped bays on the west coasts of the islands to be in the lee of the Atlantic. Acceptable depth is on the perimeter. So only mega yachts anchor in the middle. Multiple friends have cruised the eastern med and tell me it’s the same in many places. Not a sail v power thing as in the Caribbean every one uses all chain and has at least 200’. Often much more chain to allow >5 to 1 if necessary.

Over the years while cruising the Caribbean our cruising grounds changed. We either avoided or stopped going to any island that had cruise ships. Avoided like the plague any place that supplied charter boats. Between cruise ships, charter boats and resorts with PWC rentals much of the leewards have become Miami Beach south so were avoided.

We did see old school full displacement recreational trawlers. But between the trades, races, and available services almost all above 50’. Whereas a 36’ monohull sailboat was adequate for inter island cruising. So power below 60’ were few and far between. Nearly all cruisiers got out of the hurricane zone as required by insurance. Under ~50’ this is difficult in small power. But fairly benign and inexpensive in blue water sail in 40’ and up to either US coast 40N and up or back to Europe and the Med.

Other than charter cats cats were rare. Exceptions were Outremer, Catana and more exotic blue water multis. For the cruiser berthing and storage made multis less likely. Whereas for the non ocean going charterers having four staterooms made them attractive in the non summer months.

Basic problem throughout the world too many people with too much money wanting to briefly be in the good cruising grounds. The private long term cruiser or liveaboard is not where the money is so is being squeezed out.

 

[Hippocampus]

My experience differs from what’s posted above.
Creature comforts and infill in sail and power are the same for most cruising versions of both.
Air conditioning, hydronic heat, entertainment systems, electronics, water makers communication systems. What ever you want to talk about the same. The only difference is choice of device. Sailors tend to go with lighter, smaller and more efficient devices. A DC rather than AC watermaker.
Won’t argue that many sailors often power. They are the group that’s time limited or lack skills. But for cruisers that’s not the case. In my circle of friends and personally the rags are up 95% of the time and power on for close nav upon landfall. The exception has been if you’re caught in the doldrums. We traveled 4-5k/year and used <250g/y. An SD hull can go over displacement speeds at the expense of fuel so why not enjoy that freedom.Still that raised my costs.
Still I kept a COO (cost of ownership) for 46’ sail and 42’ power. But they aren’t comparable. More than sail v power is how you use the boat. The power has been used coastal in the USA. The sail coastal once in cruising grounds but also ocean. To do the same thing in power I would
1. Be on a larger boat.
2. Be on a nordhavn or similar full displacement boat whose purchase price would be higher than sail.
3. Have the same set of infill so similar costs for maintenance and repair but more for parts.
4. Standing rigging needs replacement every 8yrs on a blue water sail and sails/running rigging in less than 8yrs. This is more than offset in fuel costs.
If comparing apples to apples coastal to coastal /blue water to blue water. For coastal sail is to a minor degree cheaper than power. It’s insurance and particularly berthing that’s the killer for both. Here LOA is the major determinant not propulsion.
For blue water sail is significantly cheaper. There’s an exception. Given the phenomenal costs for sails for red light mega yachts it’s cheaper to power. The sails only go up with the owner aboard or briefly on coastal charter.

 

[Mambo42]

We have spent much of the last month messing around in boats in the Adriatic—principally the Croatian coast—and the Ionian. Other than the crushing number or tourists (we refer to them as turoids) in the towns that cruise ships have access to, we have been very pleased with these cruising grounds, especially coming from the PNW and its cold water environs. And my goodness the food is much better. Most of the folks on this forum have spent some time here, and there are multiple threads focused on cruising here.

But what we (as PNW cruisers with history in sailboats) were so struck by was the dearth of trawler-like boats. The area is dominated by monohull sailboats, followed by charter (mostly) catamarans, and go-fast powerboats with hairy-chested men with gold necklaces at the helm. Trawlers like ours show up now and then, but they are not terribly common. Is this cultural or does it reflect cruising conditions?

I know that there are trawler-like boats here. I saw some of them. And the sailboats were often acting as trawlers (meaning they motored—like they do in the PNW—instead of sailing). But still, there is a striking dearth of trawlers compared to other boats. And after med-mooring a catamaran in a 20 kt cross breeze, I will take my stodgy Helmsman 38e any day in close quarters maneuvering.

Just an observation, nothing more. I bet there are a bunch of trawlers elsewhere. I just did not see them!

We have not seen a lot of trawlers neither, I think during the whole season I may have seen 10 in total. Indeed the majority are sailing vessels, mostly charters. And the majority of the motor yachts are the fast boats.
But like I already wrote in a different post, most of the owned boats hardly leave the marina, perhaps 2 to 3 weeks per year, rest of the time they are lying in their berth.
In Croatia the local people do have boats, but also there, mostly small stuff, great for a day out, perhaps a weekend, but that is about it.
Why are there no trawlers or better, so few trawlers actually in all of Europe ?

I guess the answer is that many countries have their own boat builders, which build boats for the canals, the rivers and the lakes. A large trawler is going to give problems with crossing bridges, locks (also have road crossings many times).
And of course Europe is not exactly one country, it is made up of many different countries, each country with its own boat builders.
The boats, which are owned (so not charter), in the Eastern Med belong to mostly Germans, Austrians and Italians. They come for the holiday to the Med and don't have time to just go slow. Today they want to be here, tomorrow 50 nm further away, next day again 40 - 50 nm somewhere else, you cannot do that in a trawler. And next to that is the idea you have to look flashy. You need to park the boat stern to in a small port, sit on your stern deck and have dinner there or just with a glass of wine so that the people on the shore can see you. A trawler is not really a flashy boat, but because they are so rare in the Med they do attract a lot of attention. Wherever we go people are always staring at our boat for some reason, it is kind of funny.
Nowadays the fuel is becoming more expensive and as a result I see a lot of fast boats now also travelling much slower. In the past they would always go full throttle, but it is not uncommon now to see them going around at 8 - 10 kts.

Will the trawler ever become popular in Europe ?
I don't see that happening, the future lies with the electric or hybrid boats. It does mean they will go slow, but they will still look like a fast boat (Princess, Fairline etc). One of the reasons is of course that the EU wants to get rid of all fossil fuels and that could present a problem when you now buy a trawler with not so clean diesel engines.

 

[Hippocampus]

Surprised by your post but makes perfect sense. When we were shopping for a new boat it seemed Turkey and Poland were major sites for building blue water recreational boats in non mega yacht sizes. Seems what you’re saying is few go to European buyers or those buyers head out across the pond.

 

[more]

have traveler in Croatia most popular is

Menorquin biger. and local maid 9-10 meter long max size for almost free small city marina (50-100€ per year for local people only)​

also you have +- 15000 free of charge cove and bay in Croatia. over 1000
big yacht 100-300 ft for charter mini cruise crewed, 6000 sailboat for rent now maybe 7000 taxi boat around 30-40 ft. in my city Split motor yacht from 50-80 ft over 200 for charter. in Split,Dubrovnik,hvar,korcula easy you can free of charge anchorage.but not in center . i in town not pay mooring. always possible. if coming summer storm I go in marina,who care for 120-200€ safe on first place. but my neptunus 56 easy can go 30 knots for 1-2 hour I can pick go Italy or return to Split.

 

[Xlantic]

I think weather is a big factor. A differentiating feature of Trawlers is their relatively large and confortable indoor space which makes them more suitable for different weather conditions: rain or shine.

In the Med virtually all the boating happens in the summer and, as it is hot and dry then, people like to spend more time outside. The rest of the year, particularly the late fall and winter, the weather is wet and cold and the seas can be treacherous and downright dangerous.

In northern Europe there are popular boats that are similar to Trawlers in the sense that they are non-planing motorboats with plenty of indoor accommodations. For example dutch barges or the steel displacement Linssen Yachts and the like. While not classified as "Trawlers" these boats fill a similar niche.

BTW, what is Trawler?

 

[Xlantic]

I think weather is a big factor. A differentiating feature of Trawlers is their relatively large and confortable indoor space which makes them more suitable for different weather conditions: rain or shine.

In the Med virtually all the boating happens in the summer and, as it is hot and dry then, people like to spend more time outside. The rest of the year, particularly the late fall and winter, the weather is wet and cold and the seas can be treacherous and downright dangerous.

In northern Europe there are popular boats that are similar to Trawlers in the sense that they are non-planing motorboats with plenty of indoor accommodations. For example dutch barges or the steel displacement Linssen Yachts and the like. While not classified as a "Trawler" these boats fill a similar niche.

BTW, what is a "Trawler"?