2 questions

[Trainerdude]

Hoping for some advice and suggestions..

1. If you are new to boating, and looking at getting your first trawler, at what length would I need to generally keep it under to get insurance? Can someone with no experience start at 32ft ? Or would they usually want to see something smaller to start?

2. Considering the answer for the first question, what smaller pocket trawlers make good first boats?

Thanks [emoji120]

 

[mvweebles]

Insurance: I have no direct knowledge, but TF member Pau Hana gets strong reviews when the question comes up. His signature directs to:

Peter- Marine Insurance Guru at Novamar Insurance Group (206-350-5051) & tuna fishing addict!​

As far as smaller trawlers under 32-feet - some of these are trailerable which can be really handy, and may aid in getting you over the insurance hump:

• Willard 30 (displacement - 6-kt speed)
• Sundowner 30
• Rosborough 265 (many engine configs, inclu outboards)
• Nordic Tug 26 or 32
• Acadia 25 (lobster boat style made in FL)
• C-Dory 26
• Albin TE 30 (actually a sport-fisher, but a nice layout)

Should be a good start for you for a Sunday trip down the internet rabbit hole.

Peter

 

[DavidM]

I think a newbee can probably handle up to a 36' trawler providing he gets some instruction on docking, anchoring and general boat handling. I helped a new owner of a 40+' trawler take it up the east coast and we practiced docking for a few hours and anchored 6-7 times which gave him confidence in that activity. With only small boat experience before that, he was decently competent at the end of about 10 days.

And 34-36' is a sweet spot for a couple's trawler- fairly simple to maintain, decent dockage, insurance and fuel costs.

Hire a licensed captain and spend a day or so with him/her, take a Power Squadron course to learn navigation, chart reading, etc and you probably can convince most insurance companies to cover you. But see what Pau Hana has to say.

David

 

[Comodave]

I would decide what size boat fits your needs and desires. Then figure out what you need to do to get insurance and do that. The advice to talk to Peter at Nova is excellent advice. If you buy a smaller boat that doesn’t fit your needs and desires then you will just end up selling it and buying another. It will be cheaper to get what you want and even if you have to hire a captain to teach you to run it. Good luck.

 

[kapnd]

Hoping for some advice and suggestions..

1. If you are new to boating, and looking at getting your first trawler, at what length would I need to generally keep it under to get insurance? Can someone with no experience start at 32ft ? Or would they usually want to see something smaller to start?

2. Considering the answer for the first question, what smaller pocket trawlers make good first boats?

Thanks [emoji120]

Don’t let one selling point (insurance cost) drive your decision.
If you can afford the boat, you can afford the insurance.
To me, 32 feet is a pretty minimal trawler, but I can’t speak for you, and I always think in terms of ocean conditions, which you may not.
If you have no boating experience, even some trips in a dinghy or runabout will contribute to your piloting skills. Hopefully you know someone who can coach you initially, or belong to a group or club that offers such services.
Boats are rather loosely connected to the water, and thus lack the precise maneuverability that you get in your car! This will take some getting used to.

 

[mvweebles]

I think a newbee can probably handle up to a 36' trawler providing he gets some instruction on docking, anchoring and general boat handling......34-36' is a sweet spot for a couple's trawler- fairly simple to maintain, decent dockage, insurance and fuel costs.

I was going to make a similar suggestion, though OP specifically limited to 32-feet.

In my opinion, except for exterior teak, the Grand Banks 36 is sort of the gold standard for a beginners trawler. Small enough to learn quickly, open side decks make it easy to dock, very mannerly to maneuver, and is big enough that it could easily be a "last" boat.

Another tip on possible learning experiences is some of the charter companies have a teaching program. But do talk to an insurance person such as Novamarine as they will know what the underwriting standards are for various companies and can be part of your team to get you on the water safely, quickly, and with a smile.

Peter

 

[Comodave]

It isn’t if you can afford the insurance, it is if you can get insurance. Without any experience it may be very difficult to even get insurance.

 

[Trainerdude]

It isn’t if you can afford the insurance, it is if you can get insurance. Without any experience it may be bery difficult to even get insurance.

That’s my biggest concern. I would think a smaller boat would be a better chance to get insurance , hence my 32’ft comment. I don’t need a lot of space in a boat.

 

[Comodave]

Give Peter a call, he is great and if anyone can help you get insurance he can.

 

[mvweebles]

That’s my biggest concern. I would think a smaller boat would be a better chance to get insurance , hence my 32’ft comment. I don’t need a lot of space in a boat.

Dream the dream and talk to an experienced insurance broker. From there, you can adjust the dream to fit reality (if needed). I personally like boats in the smaller sizes due to cost and ease of operation and maintenance. But if that's not your scene, there may be workarounds.

Good luck. Please update on what you find. This is a common question. My first boat 35 years ago was a 42-foot aft cabin motoryacht. No idea why an insurance company would insure me, but times were different back then. I guess they finally figured out how much damage an inexperienced helmsman could do with a motoryacht with a pair of Cummins 555s.

Peter

 

[Trainerdude]

Give Peter a call, he is great and if anyone can help you get insurance he can.

I am in Canada , so I am not sure he can help or not.

 

[Trainerdude]

Dream the dream and talk to an experienced insurance broker. From there, you can adjust the dream to fit reality (if needed). I personally like boats in the smaller sizes due to cost and ease of operation and maintenance. But if that's not your scene, there may be workarounds.

Good luck. Please update on what you find. This is a common question. My first boat 35 years ago was a 42-foot aft cabin motoryacht. No idea why an insurance company would insure me, but times were different back then. I guess they finally figured out how much damage an inexperienced helmsman could do with a motoryacht with a pair of Cummins 555s.

Peter

Definitely prefer smaller. I don’t see myself on anything bigger than 36, heck, I love the layout of the Tolleycraft 26…

Currently the wife and I have a 22’ rv and spend summer weekends there. Plenty of room for me and a boat would have more space than that.

 

[Comodave]

I am in Canada , so I am not sure he can help or not.

Don’t know if he can or not, but worth a call.

 

[Bacchus]

I think a newbee can probably handle up to a 36' trawler providing he gets some instruction on docking, anchoring and general boat handling. I helped a new owner of a 40+' trawler take it up the east coast and we practiced docking for a few hours and anchored 6-7 times which gave him confidence in that activity. With only small boat experience before that, he was decently competent at the end of about 10 days.

And 34-36' is a sweet spot for a couple's trawler- fairly simple to maintain, decent dockage, insurance and fuel costs.

Hire a licensed captain and spend a day or so with him/her, take a Power Squadron course to learn navigation, chart reading, etc and you probably can convince most insurance companies to cover you. But see what Pau Hana has to say.

David

I think David has nailed it... at least reflects my thoughts exactly.
I would focus on finding the boat best fit for your intended use and figure out what you need to do to be educated, trained and insured in parallel.
I think you can fairly easily overcome the training hurdle and don't think 2-4 ft will be that much of a difference. Start the education via America's Boating Club (ABC aka US Power Squadron) or USCG Aux course. Mnay ABC locations are offering on the water sessions. Having a licensed Capt provide hands on training on your vessel provides a solid foundation for practice and further learning on your own or with a little help from others.

 

[SteveK]

How many of you guys started with a 32 or 36 boat as your first boat. If the OP was born with the genes to operate a boat OK. Sure it can be done, hell it has been done by many, but to encourage someone to go for it is bad advice. IMO.
Maybe any trailable boat up to 24 feet as a first boat for at least a season.

 

[Trainerdude]

How many of you guys started with a 32 or 36 boat as your first boat. If the OP was born with the genes to operate a boat OK. Sure it can be done, hell it has been done by many, but to encourage someone to go for it is bad advise. IMO.
Maybe any trailable boat up to 24 feet as a first boat for at least a season.

Yeah, I don’t think 36 is where I want to be for my first boat. I was thinking 26-27 or so . Something I can sleep on and take away for weekends that doesn’t break the bank in gas.

Something similar to the Tolleycraft 26 , and I am still trying to find other pocket trawlers I might like.

 

[jimfrens]

They are rare, but the Nimble Wanderer 29 is a trailerable pocket trawler that sips fuel. It doesn’t go fast, but most trawlers don’t.

 

[bowball]

How many of you guys started with a 32 or 36 boat as your first boat. If the OP was born with the genes to operate a boat OK. Sure it can be done, hell it has been done by many, but to encourage someone to go for it is bad advice. IMO.
Maybe any trailable boat up to 24 feet as a first boat for at least a season.

I started much bigger than that, and it worked out fine. Had to have 100 hours of training though for insurance first.

 

[catalinajack]

Hoping for some advice and suggestions..

1. If you are new to boating, and looking at getting your first trawler, at what length would I need to generally keep it under to get insurance? Can someone with no experience start at 32ft ? Or would they usually want to see something smaller to start?

2. Considering the answer for the first question, what smaller pocket trawlers make good first boats?

Thanks [emoji120]

Our first and only boat was/is a DeFever 44, pretty substantial boat. Bought it in Florida and drove it 1,000 miles north on the ICW without incident. Some would say blind luck. So would I. Insurance underwriter required only eight hours of training. Underwriters today seem to have become much more conservative in this regard. Requiring 100 hours is wise for both the insurer and the owner. With proper training I do not think a 42/44-footer is too much for a new boater; more than that, probably. I would recommend a twin screw to lessen the learning curve for docking.

 

[mvweebles]

Our first and only boat was/is a DeFever 44, pretty substantial boat. Bought it in Florida and drove it 1,000 miles north on the ICW without incident. Some would say blind luck. So would I. Insurance underwriter required only eight hours of training. Underwriters today seem to have become much more conservative in this regard. Requiring 100 hours is wise for both the insurer and the owner. With proper training I do not think a 42/44-footer is too much for a new boater; more than that, probably. I would recommend a twin screw to lessen the learning curve for docking.

As someone who did a few insurance sign-offs 20 years ago, I cannot imagine what I would do for 100 hours. I remember one guy who had two rapid succession claims. His insurance company required 20 hours which seemed like forever - these are not 8-hour days. Not a lot of learning after about 3 hours.

He was an incredibly poor helmsman. He ended up just hiring me whenever he wanted to use his boat. Not my favorite gig.

Peter.

 

[Jmarsh203]

Could always charter a couple boats and get some experience before buying. Document the time with signature from captain so you can submit to insurance when you do buy a boat. Will also let you jump around a little in boat styles and you will have more experience on knowing what you actually want and what will fit your needs. If a 36 foot boat fits your needs and a 26 foot boat doesn’t than the 26 foot boat is a waste of time and money. Also any mishaps are with someone else’s equipment instead of yours so the beginers learning curve will at least not damage your boat.

 

[bowball]

Our first and only boat was/is a DeFever 44, pretty substantial boat. Bought it in Florida and drove it 1,000 miles north on the ICW without incident. Some would say blind luck. So would I. Insurance underwriter required only eight hours of training. Underwriters today seem to have become much more conservative in this regard. Requiring 100 hours is wise for both the insurer and the owner. With proper training I do not think a 42/44-footer is too much for a new boater; more than that, probably. I would recommend a twin screw to lessen the learning curve for docking.

You can cover much in 100 hours; it isn’t all boat handling. Boat systems, generator use, electricity management, radio work, tender deployment and retrieval, anchoring, snubbers, fueling, navigation work, radar interpretation, …

New boater is relative. Some have the touch and some don’t; could be decision making under pressure? Watching some of the docking video on YouTube …

I agree with your general conclusion for sure.

Boat type matters. Experience around the water. Gentleness of touch. Common sense. Risk assessment and management.

Technically it only takes 40 hours (engine hours the 100,for the insurance company is training hours not just engine hours) to get a private pilots license, though 60 might be more common to sign off. There’s a lot more going on in 3 dimensions with a much higher downside.

 

[bowball]

Could always charter a couple boats and get some experience before buying. Document the time with signature from captain so you can submit to insurance when you do buy a boat. Will also let you jump around a little in boat styles and you will have more experience on knowing what you actually want and what will fit your needs. If a 36 foot boat fits your needs and a 26 foot boat doesn’t than the 26 foot boat is a waste of time and money. Also any mishaps are with someone else’s equipment instead of yours so the beginers learning curve will at least not damage your boat.

I bet that would really help with the insurance company. And help determine size. I don’t think low mid 30’s is unreasonable at all.

 

[backinblue]

Something like Ranger tug 29 might work. Mainship Pilots are pretty common in sizes of 30' to 34'. Pretty economical to run and maintain and some have dual thrusters so docking experience is not as critical as it would be with some boats. Hard to suggest boat models w/o know more about what is important to you.

 

[High Wire]

>>>1- If you are new to boating,

Seriously, 17 to 19 ft max. for a season. You don't know what you don't know yet. Currents, tides, weather, inertia, shoals, charts, navigation, rules of the road, seaman's eye, etc. At least at that size you can fend off most docking crashes by hand.

 

[backinblue]

>>>1- If you are new to boating,

Seriously, 17 to 19 ft max. for a season. At least at that size you can fend off most crashes by hand.

I've been told to never put a body part between your boat and something you may hit.

 

[SteveK]

I've been told to never put a body part between your boat and something you may hit.

Can't help myself, , your friends may know you well to tell you that.

 

[backinblue]

Can't help myself, , your friends may know you well to tell you that.

I don't understand, sorry. That is something I try to enforce with my wife. It's tempting to try and fend off with a hand or foot, but I'd rather have a dinged boat than a broken limb. Also, they are called "rub rails" for a reason.

 

[Comodave]

I've been told to never put a body part between your boat and something you may hit.

That is what I always taught my crew candidates. I had one that came up to the marina holding his hand up to help slow the bleeding. He lost the tip of his finger. I asked what happened and he said that he did exactly what I told him not to do and fended off the boat with his hand and lost the finger tip between the boat and dock. There was a doctor onboard and he flicked the fingertip into the water and said “fish food”. And a carp immediately ate the tip. The boat was about 19’.

 

[Jmarsh203]

As far as trawlers are concerned I think a 36 footer wouldn’t be an unreasonable size at all to start with, especially if you were willing to hire a captain for a few trips in the beginning, or charter a boat first with a captain to teach you. Trawlers tend to be slow enough the amount of time for making decisions is generally enough a beginner shouldn’t be overwhelmed with minimal training and the learning curve while large is not overly dangerous. If you were looking at center consoles my answer would change, I’d say start at a boat between 18-21 foot before considering upgrading to some 40 footer with quad 400R mercurys on the back, the learning curve on a boat like that is very large and quite unforgiving of ignorance. Also on trawlers 32-36 foot really is the starting point where boats really start becoming comfortable for more than just day trips. You will find as you see more boats that within the same given size boat some are very large and some are very small, just take something like a Willard 36 for example, they did a few models but comparing a 36 pilothouse to a 36 sedan is night and day when looking at interior space the pilothouse has almost double the interior space even though they have the same hull. something like a GB 32 would be a great starting point for a boat small enough you could single hand, large enough you could spend a couple weeks on it if you wanted to, but still a bit small for considering as a livaboard. Grand Banks, marine trader or Willard 36 would be a comfortable livaboard if your already used to living small which sounds like you are.