1976 Marine Trader 36 Europa Sedan project boat

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Hi Guys. I really enjoy everyone's feedback.
One of the biggest motivators I have is seeing what other's have done to their project boats. It's comforting to know that we are not as crazy tackling a project boat as some people seem to infer...LOL
One of our biggest inspirations has been a guy from Germany with a youtube channel called "my first boat". We absolutely love the attention to detail he puts into his project boat.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUsYuHgNS1aNglyj8-sInSw

We have watched all his videos, many more than once.
I am always looking for ideas and inspiration.
Thanks! :)
 
One work Max

Wow.
Wendy and I are following this. Who needs YouTube when we can follow this.

Spring is just around the corner, lets hope its and early arrival.
 
Wow.
Wendy and I are following this. Who needs YouTube when we can follow this.

Spring is just around the corner, lets hope its and early arrival.
HA!! You found us! ;)

(YellowPiper and his lovely wife were instrumental in swaying our decision to get into Trawlers! Thanks C&W! )
 
Last edited:
Replacing the Rudder; "The Straw that Broke the (previous owners) Camel's Back"

The previous owner got this boat as a project boat and did some work as well as invested a bit of cash fixing whatever problems were big at the time.
On his last outing last summer, he got his boat stuck in some weeds within the Marina and in the course of maneuvering his boat, the rudder fell off.
That was when he decided to sell it (eventually to me... :D)
When we bought the boat, the PO was in the process of trying to remove the rudder post from the boat. He told us a new rudder was going to be about $1000. When I looked at it, I figured I could probably make one myself for about $600
When I looked closely at the rudder, I figured it would cost even less as all I would need to do is purchase just the missing lower shaft and a new rudder plate. Then all I would need to do is machine a collet to connect the lower shaft to the top shaft and...Done!!. Or so I thought.
AM-JKLXwa_9eJDGeRoqNhERH8wUsKJwQntZ2X3okuHldKzV291sjuBlXJK8jPYFy3UW5ik9yT2GYm245EWvpoT3YEZpWOPWBWg-5ghYX-iKQV7hbPmI6Y-xGQG8gSgXDl7yBJTn1llvxIS3PPq0rpLVknfcN=w1025-h952-no


Then I had another idea.
Why not try to find the missing rudder and shaft?
I am a certified diver and I am also an advanced drone operator. Between flying over the marina and diving, I was sure I could find it.
Unfortunately, the marina, being as accommodating as they were, said "no". Diving in a Marina is not safe due to risk of electrocution from improperly wired boats. And flying over the marina would not be allowed unless I applied for a permit due to proximity of controlled airspace.
So back to “make a new one”. I sourced out a shaft and plate. Machining the collet would be a piece of cake from scrap brass I had kicking around. I thought I would take another look at the remaining shaft to make sure the collet would fit and soon realized that the PO had loosened the shaft retaining rings of the upper shaft. A closer look led me to realize that the shaft was beaten down about 2” from where it normally rests. This means the collet idea is no longer feasible as the nub would not be long enough to hold a collet once the shaft was returned to its proper position.
AM-JKLW3D4MWYNmRbvyHPUkZoGnEKEHlpzpnstuFQvGjbPDCKNvCWzeWP00OU0mU0zdxNGdZtoEOLL6Yfkwg2zh3YPrJwmNVuJeKKSvUJGr3nSRcBrl9bumkdMbBwzqkbNJPOlyP7WBIx2FJn9exXM4kJQSJ=w1035-h952-no


I would now need to remove the upper shaft and replace the entire assembly with a one-piece shaft, as well as make a new rudder plate.
The top part of the upper shaft has very specific machining. It is a squared-off top that allows the rudder tiller to hold the shaft securely, as well as a pair of drilled holes top and bottom that hold the brass shaft retaining collars.
Knowing the PO had a heck of a time trying to get the shaft out, I could see the top of the shaft was deformed from where it was beaten down in an attempt to force the shaft down and out.
AM-JKLXcOt-cvgDIczpor9edPRNrO3QLBBs3FnTchP8RKPKqE6jHOV-lsQpqalpAa7tgEpqj25fveDxZlhhmf4qIk8KDQWRizYyTUVmgLg9Ato2Ntr-_CvRKoCDPzfHn_okPX6yaBXxBXY3wxC204YlSyMik=w1200-h890-no


I’m sure the PO didn’t realize that there was a packing gland holding the shaft in. I opened the packing gland and picked out the packing rings They were hard as a rock. What was worse, the deeper I went, the harder they got. I pulled out 6 rings. The shaft still would not come out because the top of the shaft was deformed. I took a grinder to the shaft, and gave the shaft one shot of WD-40 and the darned thing just fell out of the shaft and onto the gravel below.
AM-JKLVNDkd7KDz6jQFxwXDqVNDHA51WMs1JoFUVUW01U0mM29qAT-HfAm8t9WuWElhbmn-xGfvS8QWcR-uS7Cb8uvtDcvpiRAfiuHfYIqt7KwwLWe1GMbG0V9K1PogqcShte6BEG1f5d9nS8H397AzVx00X=w579-h952-no


Fast-forward a few days and I was in the process of sourcing the materials for a new shaft and rudder when I got a call from the Marina. They found my rudder!
I picked up the rudder and matched it up the upper shaft that I had in hand. It was then I discovered how poorly the upper shaft was made.
AM-JKLV8dLJIKcqow-uk5zNdkQ74xUz8gLJL4tav7mzq4TCrpmMldtmZRBdtbXrJaoezgkEBCq_TW8xl9tGZAGB9_wrNhc8u-NswnQyNUXsOZ-4Le2aCDGX5q6OrqTUnNDpKq5686rrcY4f62dqPthr8w3Dl=w536-h952-no

AM-JKLVRVEAnte2dyQtg4x897C7pRySNXAk_UTE42zTdJcWlzZmoHXQdscF1zT5oHw9vQistAnufV5cN24fHmaXCzwzx5yLzybV8Kw-kdKvS3Tg3ndzJWZSf1cgPdlrJToBQH0fhI3QgjGTIsOYYkNd9vQxR=w536-h952-no


The upper shaft and rudder are mated through a pair of flanges. I discovered that the upper shaft and flange were poorly mated. (Sorry, I did not take a close-up photo) . Because it was so poorly welded, the darned thing was bound to fail (which it did).
So I cleaned it up and contacted a buddy of mine that could weld stainless.
He did an awesome job. The top of the flange/shaft is double fillet-welded. And the underside is equally well done. This should last for a few seasons.
AM-JKLXKsyoUU8r2ky03EURa93LdlwSKFF3u0hOIzfZpa9M1bKM7tcw46wImURhWQcBqKv6RGjYaZ6yqJgDE0VMm9hzQUBitXEm01-wmDZJ1hVXTHOtOqCWqlDOE8XTE6RRFNwH6Z0UP1gQ_igzT_gEzOXlu=w536-h952-no

AM-JKLW7KNdITXavapUbEX5E5TiJQ-nQcIB9mMoWxIGeWu98QAR2XhTykby2bk2ECifNYmOIuAlNtaSR1O0ekzGi8Wl-Cr-kGgbMfIBD3ZkDTfInTMzsLOLYp_j7aS21NemPDTQE6K7aBbqd0bVzfHszbyIe=w1000-h696-no

AM-JKLX1oFdVWsdLD8LBCGm7SGsk0SeUAghlbpRxkb7L9X2HQWLOxrMOws-PfAxvIKOxu1qhSfboUzIo2hF5lctb7Ibxrk0lENn-bDsuLQUuxjFhnrs5hiZJcu00rc2VcAa09LCWB5r9JWsj04S53LwsgbFx=w1000-h672-no


Although the rudder is fixed, I don’t like how the current configuration is set up. I especially don’t like that the rudder is not to spec. The rudder is supposed to be supported top and bottom. I feel that the current configuration puts a lot of undue stress on the rudder flange as force is applied on the rudder by the prop, especially when the rudder is turned and the prop-blast is slamming against it.

I plan to install a lower support as shown in the photo below, but I will do that in a few years as the current fix should last a while.
AM-JKLULWj4kUkc-9fw_61CnoC7k45C0GqT0ymcpQJ5kbJyQQLpgtfItUroDAHnXMFx5zn-gT9iTKH1UeTfLc3ddqyVMNucrli5IpErRYSInbzimrFW3bhwg9szHEmx-8Tq3s08GsfRFLJgLGT0kOqc11oPO=w1200-h773-no
 
Last edited:
Good luck...hope you paid well less than $20,000.
 
Good luck...hope you paid well less than $20,000.
Oh yes!! Much, much less than 20K. And that's in Canadian dollars too! :D:D
 
Looking forward to your progress. You have taken on a challenge. I hope you are retired, have the boat in a heated shed so you can work on at your schedule during the winter without being weather dependent.

Sweat equity can accomplish the otherwise impossible. I guestimate 500 hours of your time will bring it back to new condition.

I think you mean 5000 hours as my boat was in much better condition and after 10 years there is still more to do as 1/2 the projects double in complexity before you can even get to them.

Thats why so many project boats fail.

Of course if on the hard till done and with the proper work shed full of tools that time can be reduced some.
 
I think you mean 5000 hours as my boat was in much better condition and after 10 years there is still more to do as 1/2 the projects double in complexity before you can even get to them.

Thats why so many project boats fail.

Of course if on the hard till done and with the proper work shed full of tools that time can be reduced some.
after seeing the 2nd list my first estimate is off. But 5000?. Even 500 works out to 62.5 days at 8 hours doing it non stop. The OP said he still works, that gave me pause as starting/stopping short hours, returning/restarting adds up wasted hours. That is what causes these projects to fail.
 
.....Although the rudder is fixed, I don’t like how the current configuration is set up. I especially don’t like that the rudder is not to spec. The rudder is supposed to be supported top and bottom. I feel that the current configuration puts a lot of undue stress on the rudder flange as force is applied on the rudder by the prop, especially when the rudder is turned and the prop-blast is slamming against it.

I plan to install a lower support as shown in the photo below, but I will do that in a few years as the current fix should last a while.
attachment.php


Absolutely right. The rudder should be supported by a foot and lower bearing. The way my rudder is set up in the pic is a good example of how it should be. I can't believe anyone set that boat's rudder up without the lower support. :facepalm:
 

Attachments

  • 0B1F7530-55B1-4F10-AFDD-1EEEE37681DD.jpg
    0B1F7530-55B1-4F10-AFDD-1EEEE37681DD.jpg
    135.4 KB · Views: 342
I think you mean 5000 hours as my boat was in much better condition and after 10 years there is still more to do as 1/2 the projects double in complexity before you can even get to them.

Thats why so many project boats fail.

Of course if on the hard till done and with the proper work shed full of tools that time can be reduced some.

after seeing the 2nd list my first estimate is off. But 5000?. Even 500 works out to 62.5 days at 8 hours doing it non stop. The OP said he still works, that gave me pause as starting/stopping short hours, returning/restarting adds up wasted hours. That is what causes these projects to fail.

Either way you slice it, there will be a lot of labour invested in this boat. Right now my labour is cheap, since I enjoy doing the work.
The aim of this boat is to enjoy summer getaways with it. I mentioned earlier that we will have it on the water in 2022 and it will be a long way from being "nice". But it will allow us to enjoy summer on the water. We will keep working on it, but on a lesser scale during the summer.

The big jobs will be tackled in the spring and in the fall when the boat is on the hard. Unless another perfect boat shows up at at amazing price, we plan to keep this one for a while.
  • Could this project take years? Yup!
  • Could it be that we might get fed up with all the work and ditch the boat? Yup!
  • Could it be that we will stick with it and year over year have a great summer on the boat regardless of its state of renovation? Yup!
Only time will tell:):)
 


Although the rudder is fixed, I don’t like how the current configuration is set up. I especially don’t like that the rudder is not to spec. The rudder is supposed to be supported top and bottom. I feel that the current configuration puts a lot of undue stress on the rudder flange as force is applied on the rudder by the prop, especially when the rudder is turned and the prop-blast is slamming against it.

I plan to install a lower support as shown in the photo below, but I will do that in a few years as the current fix should last a while.
AM-JKLULWj4kUkc-9fw_61CnoC7k45C0GqT0ymcpQJ5kbJyQQLpgtfItUroDAHnXMFx5zn-gT9iTKH1UeTfLc3ddqyVMNucrli5IpErRYSInbzimrFW3bhwg9szHEmx-8Tq3s08GsfRFLJgLGT0kOqc11oPO=w1200-h773-no

Absolutely right. The rudder should be supported by a foot and lower bearing. The way my rudder is set up in the pic is a good example of how it should be. I can't believe anyone set that boat's rudder up without the lower support. :facepalm:
attachment.php



Indeed.
Folks, I am looking for ideas for ways to attach the lower arm to the hull.
Please chime in with any ideas you might have.
If you look carefully at this photo here, at the lower left you can see the lower arm was cut off and glassed over sometime in this boats history. I don't know the reason this was done but I suspect it may have been damaged at one time and the owner decided to cut it off rather than repair it (just my speculation!)
AM-JKLX6uRllorEeLl0zM3IBIY7yJZuSv3rbmQfZDRR4eZTC5_n15AwYCKZ54TnvcQzVVP5FoZlaSaqKQBR9ilf3A1JeQ-EhUe8UOBiUJ7nWqkKwb05O-r59OHYkYHw1gox6tVTCPPp0UU_-G3bHvWwxvLA7=w1030-h952-no

My first thought was to fabricate a "U" channel, but the boat has a lot of contours at the end of the keel.
Then I saw another boat at the boatyard (photo is show in my quote above) that has a simple brass bar bolted to the bottom. Is it strong enough? I don't know. Thoughts?

Any ideas to repair/rebuild this arm would be appreciated. The more economical the better.
 
Last edited:
Max, you appear to refer quite often to photos which actually don't appear. The one above is my boats rudder view, but I see no photo relating to how your boat is lacking the foot. What's ahappening..? :confused:
 
Max, you appear to refer quite often to photos which actually don't appear. The one above is my boats rudder view, but I see no photo relating to how your boat is lacking the foot. What's ahappening..? :confused:
There must be something wrong on your end, mate.
All my photos appear on all my devices (2 computers, 1 tablet and 1 phone)
Also my wife's computer and her phone when she checks my thread on her end as well.

Maybe try another browser? Or try another device and browser(s)?
 
Looking at these pictures I'm convinced the same guy that owned MY boat also owned YOURS :rofl:
 
In view of the above chorus, and surely we can't all be wrong, it appears there is a glitch with your photo uploads Max. You are clicking on upload after selecting the pics in the advanced setting of 'manage attachments', then closing that window, and going down to underneath the box where your pic files will be listed, and clicking on 'submit' from there..?

It's a bit hard to believe you and your wife are seeing your pics actually on the thread post, when the rest of us are not. :confused:
 
Max, I do see the pictures you posted earlier in the thread. But when you started referring to pictures of the rudder and shoe specifically I didn't see anything new but scrolled through your earlier pics and found them.

Do you have any closer up pictures of your rudder/shoe area?

Thanks, keep us updated!
 
Last edited:
Max, you appear to refer quite often to photos which actually don't appear. The one above is my boats rudder view, but I see no photo relating to how your boat is lacking the foot. What's ahappening..? :confused:

Max... I don't see your photos either. I can see Petes


no photos for me

No Pix for me either

OMG. I looked into this some more and you guys are all correct. Many of my photos do not appear on other computers!! All that time and effort to take and share photographs wasted!!

Well everyone, I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am with these forms.
As I mentioned at the start of this thread, I wasn't sure if I was willing to document this project because of the time and effort it required.
With the missing photos issue, I have discovered that these forms are so limiting in their ability to host photographs, that it really makes me wonder whether it's worthwhile or not.

To make matters worse, these forms also don't allow you to edit your posts after one hour has passed from making a post. Which I think is kind of ridiculous considering it can be done on many of the other forums I am a member of (some also powered by by the same engine as these forums) but if that's what the site owners wish to do that's their decision. Unfortunately it does create a huge limitation on the ability to make amends on posts that could be revised. In my case all the photos that I have been posting do not appear in many cases. It's now impossible for me to edit my post and to re-attach the missing photos. This is hugely annoying and I'm not sure if I even want to consider carrying on with this rebuild thread.

I'm sorry folks but that's just how I feel. It's one thing to be excited to share with others, but it’s very disappointing when forum limitations prevent me from doing so. I’m going to take a break from this and decide if I wish to carry on or not.
Thanks
 
Last edited:
Try opening the picture and save it as a jpeg file if it isn't already.
 
Max - once you have found the trick it is not difficult. If I may speak for your fellow forum members: we would much enjoy/appreciate/benefit from seeing your photos. Please don't give up!
Regards,
Nick
 
Guys, I've sent him a PM with suggestions as to what to do, and will open up his edit option so he can go in and re-post the relevant photos if he wishes. The 1 hr time out - actually I think it is 2 hrs - is just for general control of the board, so people can't go back in and make changes long after the post goes up.

However, please be advised, that in any specific instance where an edit is desirable, we moderators can either make the simple edit for you, or open up the edit option for that particular post - or posts - for a pre-agreed period of time. Just PM any moderator if you want this option. :)
 
Kudos Peter. I hope we get to see the pictures. Do we have to start over at post one?

Not sure Soo...he's yet to get back to me about what he wants to do.
 
Guys, I've sent him a PM with suggestions as to what to do, and will open up his edit option so he can go in and re-post the relevant photos if he wishes. The 1 hr time out - actually I think it is 2 hrs - is just for general control of the board, so people can't go back in and make changes long after the post goes up.

However, please be advised, that in any specific instance where an edit is desirable, we moderators can either make the simple edit for you, or open up the edit option for that particular post - or posts - for a pre-agreed period of time. Just PM any moderator if you want this option. :)
Thanks Peter!
PM Replied.

I do admin several Vbulletin forum servers so I am quite familiar with thier operations.

Lets try workaround #1
Do you guys see this picture?
AM-JKLW3D4MWYNmRbvyHPUkZoGnEKEHlpzpnstuFQvGjbPDCKNvCWzeWP00OU0mU0zdxNGdZtoEOLL6Yfkwg2zh3YPrJwmNVuJeKKSvUJGr3nSRcBrl9bumkdMbBwzqkbNJPOlyP7WBIx2FJn9exXM4kJQSJ=w1037-h953-no


Let me know
Max
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom