New Live Aboard- Staying Warm & Dry on the Chesapeake?

We've moved aboard our DeFever 44 and living in Baltimore this winter (retirement and points south are next year!). Three old cruisair units, a dehumidifier, radiator type heater- what else? We plan to:

• Weather strip our leaky doors/hatches
• Indoor window clear insulation kit
• Heated mattress pads
• Cover engine room vents (when not underway)
• Considering a portable engine room heater- any recs?

Not sure how cold bay temps get to make cruisair units ineffective. Should we also consider engine room heater? Recommendations? Although would love diesel heat, no plans as we think our winter stays in colder climes are soon over and not worth the expense. Appreciate the collective wisdom of this group and anything else we should/could do. We do not plan to winterize engines as we're hoping that some warmer days would allow for cruising.

Thanks!
Mark

Be careful with mattress heating pads as they can void warranty and damage foam mattresses popular nowadays for boats/RVs as they can be compressed to fit through narrow boat doorways.

I had a fairly nice one fail in about 3 years that I can only attribute to the pad, the next one I got rid of the pad and it was fine the day I sold the boat 5 or so years later.

As far as diesel heaters, remember even snow birding (did it for 8 years) that it can be below freezing all the way to mid Florida. If planning to anchor out a lot, unless you love running your genset all night, diesel heaters are really nice....at least the Wallas I had was GREAT! (just expensive that was worth every penny).

Welcome to year round Baltimore boat living. In answering the question on your reverse cycle HAVC units it depends on the winter. Baltimore Harbor is right on the line. Some winters the water temps don’t fall below the high 30’s, other years it will settle in the high 20’s/low 30’s for weeks at a time. Most have some form of electric resistance heaters for the cold snaps.

As far as winterizing the engines it really depends on your usage. Those who never leave the dock in the winter generally always winterize their engines. Those of us who boat year round often use a heater as needed and winterize if/when it gets below freezing for more than a few days. Just remember, you can buy a lot of pink antifreeze for the cost of replacing a cracked block.

John

Agree with the above having wintered aboard in Annapolis and South Jersey areas all or part of the winter. from the late 90's to 2018.

Was also the USCG Ice Patrol liaison from USCG AirSta Cape May for years for the Chesapeake during the 90's and kept tabs on the ice line in the Northern Chesapeake. So know it does come in cycles.

proudsailor said:

We've moved aboard our DeFever 44 and living in Baltimore this winter (retirement and points south are next year!). Three old cruisair units, a dehumidifier, radiator type heater- what else? We plan to:

• Weather strip our leaky doors/hatches
• Indoor window clear insulation kit
• Heated mattress pads
• Cover engine room vents (when not underway)
• Considering a portable engine room heater- any recs?

Not sure how cold bay temps get to make cruisair units ineffective. Should we also consider engine room heater? Recommendations? Although would love diesel heat, no plans as we think our winter stays in colder climes are soon over and not worth the expense. Appreciate the collective wisdom of this group and anything else we should/could do. We do not plan to winterize engines as we're hoping that some warmer days would allow for cruising.

Thanks!
Mark

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If you have 50 amp 220 volt and a block heater on one engine, it's pretty simple to turn on and off one block heater on the coldest periods. Doesn't take much to keep the engine room above freezing. With twin 30 amp shorepower, it's a much greater percentage of available power.

With water cooled reverse cycle air conditioners, water flow is king. In late January of 2016 I took my boat South. The boat basin in Crisfield MD went below 32 degrees the night before I left. Slush was forming in the brackish water. While the AC units never froze up, heat had diminished to the point where electric heaters produced more heat per amp. At 35 degrees the heat was probably less than half of what it was normally. My units had 7 gallons per minute of raw water flow for a 12,000 BTU units. I would plan on periods where your reverse cycle AC units aren't going to work.

Ted

I have a couple of questions for you Mark,

Do you have 30, dual 30 or 220/50 amp power on your boat?

Does your marina leave any domestic water on over the winter? In other words how are you going to get water to your boat?

Does your marina keep docks snow/ice free in winter?

Weather permitting does your marina offer in slip pump outs over winter?

John

psneeld said:

Agree with the above having wintered in Annapolis and South Jersey areas all or part of the winter.

Was also the USCG Ice Patrol liaison from USCG AirSta Cape May for years for the Chesapeake during the 90's and kept tabs on the ice line in the Northern Chesapeake. So know it does come in cycles.

Click to expand...

Then you got smart and went south in winter. Lol

John

I lived in Annapolis (just south of Baltimore) for a few years. The creeks would freeze over for about a month each year. A seawater cooled/heated heat pump will also freeze up in those condition, so you need to plan for another heat source.

I assume your “radiator” is a bus heater type and heated with engine coolant. That won’t do you any good.

The only real solution during that freeze up period is to use 2-3 electric space heaters, but as noted above your AC system may be limiting.

And if the living area is reasonably warm, the plumbing in the bilge and the engine room will be ok.

David

johnrupp said:

I have a couple of questions for you Mark,

Do you have 30, dual 30 or 220/50 amp power on your boat?

Does your marina leave any domestic water on over the winter? In other words how are you going to get water to your boat?

Does your marina keep docks snow/ice free in winter?

Weather permitting does your marina offer in slip pump outs over winter?

John

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Thanks all- single 50a. We do get "winter water" where they'll turn a line on weekly to fill up. We've got lots of water capacity so filled tanks last several weeks if we're conservative. We also can get in slip pump outs and they do clear ice/snow. So certainly doable from a utilities stand point.

And thanks on the advice of the pink stuff. I always winterized my sailboat engine, but didn't live aboard in the winter. You're right- way cheaper than a new engine block (or two in my case!).

DavidM said:

I lived in Annapolis (just south of Baltimore) for a few years. The creeks would freeze over for about a month each year. A seawater cooled/heated heat pump will also freeze up in those condition, so you need to plan for another heat source.

I assume your “radiator” is a bus heater type and heated with engine coolant. That won’t do you any good.

The only real solution during that freeze up period is to use 2-3 electric space heaters, but as noted above your AC system may be limiting.

And if the living area is reasonably warm, the plumbing in the bilge and the engine room will be ok.

David

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David- thanks for replying. Heater is the oil filled portable that looks like a radiator on wheels. May get more than one now....

Reach out to Scott, SeaLife, a forum member. He and his wife have lived in your area for several winters.

You might want to put some spacers under the mattresses so condensation can get out and not cause mold. There is a product called something like Hypervent, not sure of the name. It has lots of plastic fingers that hold the mattress up about an inch to let air circulate. Maybe someone knows the proper name.

How many years do you plan to winter up north?

Me...I camped out on a couple liveaboards for many years.... in the South without air and Annapolis with barely enough electric space heaters.

Now....with a bigger better liveaboard.... I would look long and hard at something like a wood stove/pellet stove. Something about a Holiday season with a light snowfall and the warmth, smell and sound of a crackling fire.

Actually had a tiny wood burning heater on a 30 foot Cape Dory Ketch I was living aboard in Ft Lauderdale, FL. It was. for those "cool" winter nights and installed by the previous owner. Believe me.... at 25 years old and a helo pilot living on a sailboat in Ft Lauderdale...that fireplace was a "big hit" with those that shared an evening with me aboard. Wasn't much use for the other 11 months, probably would have preferred AC electric aboard and maybe something other than an icebox... but at that point in life I was living large.

Yep, now it would be still a hit with old bones and cold outside.

gonesailing13 said:

Lived on our sailboat in NJ for three years. Marina would freeze up for a month or so. They did have a bubbler system that would turn on periodically. Used two oil heaters but the best thing we did was have the boat shrink wrapped with semi clear wrap . It would get so warm during the day I would come home from work to find my wife sitting in the cockpit in shorts and a t-shirt. Best money spent.

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Can relate to that!

First winter I had my trawler on the hard in NJ, did the flybridge in clear shrink wrap so I could pull the dead teak deck off and glass the deck. Many a February day in the 20's where I was working up there and when most people weren't around, I was stripped down to minimal and still sweating.

When I was living at the dock in Seattle (Lake Union) I found my electric heaters just fine for a 65 footer, with single 50A service. I kept the pilothouse closed off which itself got rather cold of course, but the staterooms and saloon were fine.

When I was cruising, the inverter and alternators, plus engine heat, seemed to be sufficient.

But I agree with above, that if spending time at anchor then a diesel fired unit of some nature (bulkhead, forced air, hydronic) is needed. Even when cruising I often found unreliable electrical service in other marinas.

BTW following to what @psneeld mentioned, although I wouldn't rely entirely on a wood burner, I think a small unit in the saloon would be the ultimate luxury for cozy winter days, wrapped in a blanket, reading a good Clive Cussler novel, while outside is the cold, miserable drooling rain... like right now in fact!

An enjoyable book of years ago was L Francis Herreshoff's "The Compleat Cruiser".... I would probably enjoy it again, but after 40 years of cruising I have some thoughts now of my own and boats keeps evolving.

Where he designed and cruised were the Northeastern waters of the US and much north of Cape Cod where the water remains chilly all year. He was BIG on coal stoves as they kept the cabins warm and cozy, doubled as cooking stoves and dried the sailors soggy sailing clothes.

He seem to have a writing style that matched what I envisioned how even the smallest of cruising boats should feel comforting. So what makes one happy.... so the boat should provide. I know of few people who like to be damp and cold and to me the boat should be warm and cozy, maybe not when you walk in, but in short order.

I've spent a few winters aboard on Lake Ontario, quite a bit colder than the Chesapeake. Around here shrink wrapping is standard procedure, and helps a lot with heating and comfort.

Last time I used 9000w of resistant electric heat on my 50' with a 50a 240v service and was quite comfortable. There was one cold snap around -20C that I turned on my diesel hydronic heat as well. That was my backup in case of power failure.

The oil filled portable radiators work well in my experience. Load balancing can be a challenge though as you add units.

I haven't winterized my engine. On my earlier boat I had a heater in the ER, and more recently I monitored temperature and found that it stayed well above freezing. As an aside it's not the block that's vulnerable to freezing, it's only the heat exchanger and exhaust system containing sea water.

I have had my reverse cycle AC freeze up as water temps get close to freezing. Around my parts it doesn't work for winter heat.

One thing for the OP is... every boat is different (unless talking exact same year and model straight from the factory). They all have different layouts, air leaks, thermal masses, wind exposures, and on and on. People also have vastly different comfort temp and humidity tolerances.

So no one set of heaters (wattages) can guarantee comfort but at least some input is a start. Electric heaters are an easy add usually as long as you have the high enough electric service and high enough amperage circuits to plug into (that is one that often gets inexperienced liveaboards). But as I mentioned before...living aboard should not be camping aboard. Warm and toasty is easy with a winter sleeping bag...not my idea of retirement life.

If I had to spend a month or two in the fall and spring where below 50 degree temps were possible at night... I would have the warmest, coziest, most eye/ear/and nose appealing space I could muster to sit and enjoy things that made me happy. If all winter.... it would be a no brainer what to get.

Living aboard should be the most wonderful experience in your life if you are going to do it. The long, cold, wet walks down the dock with groceries should be rewarded with the best you can think up when stepping aboard.

Lots of people don't think that way...they think "I can get by" and before you know it they are moving back to dirt dwelling. If one is going to "live the dream", then do it if you can.