USCG license renewal

[twistedtree]

Has anyone renewed their USCG license in the past year? They are in the midst of bringing the CG licensing training and certification into alignment with international standards, and I'm really struggling to figure out what I need to do, if anything, and what upgrades I qualify for. After much, much research I had the old system pretty well figured out, but now my head is spinning again trying to figure it all out again.

Has anyone sorted this out?

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I renewed last summer. My renewal is conditional to my obtaining "Leadership and managerial" class before 2017. There is going to be a run on these classes at the last half of 2016 because it is mandatory for lots of wheelhouse and engine room tickets. I'm taking the class later this month, another $1200/5 day BS.

 

[twistedtree]

This is part of what I'm trying to figure out - namely what courses I need to take. Also, under the old rules I'm eligible for a couple of upgrades, but am not sure if now additional courses or other is required.

I'm thinking one of the training schools might provide some consulting, kinda like my old guidance counselor in school. Did you do that, or figure it out yourself? The CG is unfortunately very poor at explaining all this in a comprehensible manner.

 

[BandB]

This is part of what I'm trying to figure out - namely what courses I need to take. Also, under the old rules I'm eligible for a couple of upgrades, but am not sure if now additional courses or other is required.

I'm thinking one of the training schools might provide some consulting, kinda like my old guidance counselor in school. Did you do that, or figure it out yourself? The CG is unfortunately very poor at explaining all this in a comprehensible manner.

MPT provides solid consultant like a guidance counselor. I would think any in your area would also. Leadership and Management and ECDIS are the big items. Both are 5 day courses.

I've known several captains decide just to stay National for at least the moment. I know MPT also advises to do any upgrades in tonnage this year and not wait.

Here's a page that while not completely clear is less convoluted than most:

News - MPT | Maritime Professional Training

Oh, you think of the captain side of things as a mess, the engineering side is even more so.

 

[BandB]

While the USCG site is otherwise a bit vague and of less than stellar help, the checklists are somewhat helpful.

Mariner Application Checklists

 

[BandB]

I renewed last summer. My renewal is conditional to my obtaining "Leadership and managerial" class before 2017. There is going to be a run on these classes at the last half of 2016 because it is mandatory for lots of wheelhouse and engine room tickets. I'm taking the class later this month, another $1200/5 day BS.

I think there will be a last minute panic near the end of the year when the classes are all full and people procrastinated. I heard MPT is even adding classes for HELM (Human Element Leadership and Management) at Rybovich in West Palm.

 

[twistedtree]

Thanks for the various pointers. I took my radar training with MPT and they were quite good, but taking a class there involves a flights and a hotel for a week, so the cost doubles or triples. For guys who's employer pays for training, it's no big deal, but this is all on me. If I can find a place in Seattle, I can stay on the boat which is both more comfortable and doesn't cost.

Time to get my butt in gear again on this....

 

[BandB]

Thanks for the various pointers. I took my radar training with MPT and they were quite good, but taking a class there involves a flights and a hotel for a week, so the cost doubles or triples. For guys who's employer pays for training, it's no big deal, but this is all on me. If I can find a place in Seattle, I can stay on the boat which is both more comfortable and doesn't cost.

Time to get my butt in gear again on this....

I'm sure you'll find a place in Seattle with basically the same program. I saw a couple with the courses needed such as Compass in Edmonds.

 

[twistedtree]

I'm sure you'll find a place in Seattle with basically the same program. I saw a couple with the courses needed such as Compass in Edmonds.

Yes, there are two or three. It's mostly about getting schedules to line up, and of course finalizing what courses are needed. There is a big place in Houston too, and a smaller outfit in RI, but so far MPT seems to be the biggest with the most course offerings.

 

[BandB]

I was just looking for something in the Seattle area.

The ones in Fort Lauderdale are larger simply because of the number of people in the industry here. IPT in Ft. Lauderdale also has the upgrade classes. Amazing how many places I've found around the country that just go either to 100 or 200 T and don't offer these classes at all. Makes me wonder what percentage are going to upgrade to the STCW requirements. There are many who don't need to as they never leave the US, so the National license is all they need.

 

[FF]

IF you are using the license for commercial purposes it is worth the effort to jump thru the Coasties hoops.

If the license is simply proof that you can operate a boat , say to deliver it, a current license is not needed.

My 100T was issued in 1975 , and I never bothered to renew it , which does not seem to be a problem .

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Ecdis is only required if you serve aboard an Ecdis equipped vsl. MPT is great but also one of the most expensive and busiest. Lost of schools are adding additional classes for the leadership class requirement because so many peeps have such a short window to comply. There should be places in Seattle to get anything you need.

 

[cappy208]

I believe it depends upon how large your license is. Under 100 tons needs none of this BS. But, operating an INSPECTED pax vessel for instance between alaska and continental US would necessitate some of the courses.

Over 100 tons, operating in foreign waters would necessitate the classes.

It is a bitch when Uncle Sams Confused Group can't post an easy answer, Yes or No on this. I have to attend three weeks of training this year just to keep my endorsements to work...... Grrrr. That's three weeks less trawlertime.

 

[cappy208]

Ecdis is only required if you serve aboard an Ecdis equipped vsl.

That's not quite correct. I have to take ECDIS to keep my unlimited tonnage pilotage endorsements or they said I would get a 3000GT restriction on them next year. And, since I'm licensed to operated in the City, that would be a vague area when pushing a 6600 ton barge around. There appears to be a grey area concerning "Acting as Pilot aboard tank barges less than 10,000 GT" using 'Self Certified Recency' In lieu of pilotage when you will have a restriction on a license because of the federal endorsement.

Also, not having the restriction would eliminate the occasional pilot job I can do around the city on something over 1600 tons that comes up.

It's funny. All these IMO driven, foreign equivalent, STCW type endorsements are completely irrelevant here, since when INSIDE the Line of Demarcation STCW doesn't even apply. But onward to the global equality and acceptance of a unified control system. Seems like the 'Federation' really isn't far from happening. (as in Starfleet Command)

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Woops, I stand corrected on that one.

 

[knotheadcharters]

I renewed last summer. My renewal is conditional to my obtaining "Leadership and managerial" class before 2017. There is going to be a run on these classes at the last half of 2016 because it is mandatory for lots of wheelhouse and engine room tickets. I'm taking the class later this month, another $1200/5 day BS.

If your in Jacksonville, check out Maritime Training International at Palm Cove Marina. Good Staff. I took the Leadership in November and I think it was only 500 or 600 dollars if I remember correctly. I do Agree after 22 years in the Navy I didn't think I would ever have to take another "leadership" course. The material has nothing to do with shipboard deckplate leadership. Mostly corporate structure and pillars of leadership. Nothing to do with running a boat or a crew. Waste of time and money for most but just another hoop to jump through for the Coasties.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I just paid $1200 to Maritime training intl, attending on the 22nd.

 

[cappy208]

The material has nothing to do with shipboard deckplate leadership. Mostly corporate structure and pillars of leadership. Nothing to do with running a boat or a crew. Waste of time and money for most but just another hoop to jump through for the Coasties.

Another brick in the wall. Sad isn't it!?

 

[psneeld]

After all the finger pointing about the El Faro...maybe it is exactly what is needed.


The FAA saw the need to educate pilots and the whole corporate aviation safety chain back in the 90's.

 

[Marlinmike]

Similar situation, farely simple process (and free) in the late 80's, then got to the point of special location for drug testing etc, like most gov processes they kill it with BS. I let mine lapse and that was that.

IF you are using the license for commercial purposes it is worth the effort to jump thru the Coasties hoops.

If the license is simply proof that you can operate a boat , say to deliver it, a current license is not needed.

My 100T was issued in 1975 , and I never bothered to renew it , which does not seem to be a problem .

 

[BandB]

I also believe the USCG National license difference vs. STCW will diminish over the next few years and within 5 years or so there may no longer be a difference.

As to HELM, first note there are several different leadership courses but this one as taught at MPT is definitely not the same course a business school would teach. I can't speak as to other schools.

I would say it's at attempt to teach some skills that have been shown to be greatly lacking in some major situations around the world. It's not how to run a profitable boat which would be the business school emphasis, but issues that definitely impact safety at sea. It's also to address many of the issues widely seen in the management of commercial and recreational boats, areas in which Captains, Mates, Engineers and Stews have not been trained formally in the past. The objective is to achieve good communication, enhance decision making on board, teach recognition and adjustment to situations, plan and allocate resources, operate in a way to both be effective and follow applicable rules, and learn to assign duties and direct others in an effective way.

I think it's a recognition that there is more to being a Master than knowing how to operate a boat. You depend on others and your ability to lead them. It is a management and leadership job and for many who take this course, it's the first management and leadership training they've ever received. The larger the boat, larger the crew, the more your performance is dependent on the performance of those who work for you, under you, not on just what you do.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I find I get the best, most up to date answers from the USCG. I note the date and name of the person who gave me the answers.

While I like the folks at MOT and have taken many courses there, and will again, you have to remember they are in the business of selling courses so I and others have found that they can sometimes end up "suggesting" more course then you might actually need to meet the minimum requirements for what every license you are going for or renewing.

 

[BandB]

I find I get the best, most up to date answers from the USCG. I note the date and name of the person who gave me the answers.

While I like the folks at MOT and have taken many courses there, and will again, you have to remember they are in the business of selling courses so I and others have found that they can sometimes end up "suggesting" more course then you might actually need to meet the minimum requirements for what every license you are going for or renewing.

Actually I have known captains who have gone there and sat down and gotten the facts and discussed their situations and based on the information from MPT decided not to go STCW. I think they or at least some of them are doing a pretty good job assisting those who ask in deciding what they need and I've known several who then decided that a National license was enough for them.

Now, I'd recommend using at least two sources, so USCG and one or more schools, that way you're not as likely to be misled by one individual. In both situations it is not the entire organization speaking to you but just a single individual who can be wrong. With either entity the quality of information varies widely based on who you talk to. If local and getting it from MPT or ICT, I strongly recommend in person and not over the phone.

We also use the USCG checklists as I like written over verbal.

 

[refugio]

I find I get the best, most up to date answers from the USCG. I note the date and name of the person who gave me the answers.

Agreed. In fact, called them yesterday to verify how to report testing in lieu of sea service on the CG_719B I'm submitting today. I had a "receipt" from Capt. Rodriguez (BitterEnd Blog guy and head of training for Zenith) from the renewal course I did last April - they checked and it was indeed in the system, and told me I should just print that "receipt" message from him and include it in my packet. The gal I talked to took the extra time to tell me about sending copies rather than originals, and went through how I should handle the TWIC non-renewal. Easy peasy.

 

[cappy208]

A lot of the problem stems from the introduction of STCW and how that muddles things up. Some of the 'license renewal application' specialists won't even handle STCW holders for even renewal.

The 'centralized' NMC has actually helped remove a lot of the ambiguities in responses. But the whole divide on worldwide standards (brought to us by Filipinos and Pakistanis in the Maritime world makes me puke).

And discussing the 'El Faro' is quite appropo. Similar to the mariner licensing standards/ It is just those hull inspection standards that were skirted regardless of who the regulatory authority is/was.

 

[twistedtree]

I personally have no problem with license renewal and harmonizing standards internationally. Many other civilized nations view the USCG licensing as a joke compared to what's required elsewhere. The National license relies heavily on sea time, and much less on training. So if you haven't gotten yourself killed, you are good to go. I'm all in favor of more training, in fact I think people should have to re-test for a driver's license renewal, and training should be much more rigorous. The majority of drivers don't seem to know basic rules of the road, or at least don't practice them.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

The STCW parts are not optional for me. We regularly go Foreign and have the hardest time with Canada transits. Since my company owns a shipyard in Erie, Pa we have to transit the St Lawrence Seaway and submit to Canadian Seaway inspections. Part of the requirement for crew members is no DWI and other offenses for the last 10 years. This is always a scramble as a couple of the regular crew have had DWI arrests, some 15-18 years ago. 1 of the deckhands has a clearance letter from the Canadian Gov't but was still denied entry to TRANSIT Canadian waters enroute to the US side of Lake Erie. We were sent to Valley Field (west of Montreal) to load the Antenna section for the World trade center and had crew issues that were very expensive to resolve. Canadian made parts loaded on a US flagged barge, to be towed by a US flag tug. I believe its a money grab only. All crew had required STCW and other required documentation for foreign transit.
These issues never come up in other countries

 

[Pedro]

While the USCG site is otherwise a bit vague and of less than stellar help, the checklists are somewhat helpful.

Mariner Application Checklists

It seems this page does not exist.

 

[Pedro]

I found the checklists here

Checklist

What I do not understand well is, were are the requirements for amateur boaters. I hold a Brazilian Masters license, without which one cannot pilot any boat in the country's coastal waters, but I don't see anything similar in the complex list of US licenses.

 

[Sabre602]

I found the checklists here

Checklist

What I do not understand well is, were are the requirements for amateur boaters. I hold a Brazilian Masters license, without which one cannot pilot any boat in the country's coastal waters, but I don't see anything similar in the complex list of US licenses.

There is no federal requirement by the US Coast Guard for any sort of master's license for pleasure vessels. The only time that a master needs a USCG license is when he is carrying passengers for hire (paying passengers). This Coast Guard Auxiliary website gives a brief description of these requirements.

Note that many states do require a "boating safety card" or something similar for all recreational boaters. Florida requires boaters born in 1988 or later to pass a boating safety course.