Trailerable Trawler

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DavidM

DavidM

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A few years ago ? Kohlman started a Yahoo group (now defunct I believe with the intention of developing a specification and pricing for a trailerable trawler (8.5' beam) with a very long water line (30+ feet), lightweight (less than 5,000 lbs all up), displacement hull. Virtually all production trailerable trawlers are in the 25' size range.

Tad Roberts participated in the discussion and now that he is contributing to this group, I thought it might be interesting to resurect the conversation.

A couple of custom builders provided conceptual pricing, but if anyone has ever tried to price something based on a concept, it just doesn't work. Just go to one of the custom Maine downeast builders and ask him for a hull quote. It will start out less than $50,000 plus, plus, plus. It will eventually get to $200,000+.

And I doubt that anyone will buy one of these from a custom builder. You have to get a production builder interested to make any kind of sense financially.

So lets start a conversation and maybe one of the production builders will get the message. To pique your interest, the following is one layout concept for a hardtop, downeast style trawler.

David
 

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Yes,

Very interesting indeed. It looks like an extreme fishform hull represented on your layout drawing. I'd MUCH rather see some lines drawings.

This is interesting to me but would be even more interesting if she was a semi-disp boat. VERY few people will be interested in a 7 knot FD boat so to get the interest needed to launch this girl I'd recommend changing her after plane lines to provide cruising speeds of 10 to 15 knots. And if she was flexible enough w her fore and aft trim being available as an OB or inbd diesel would considerably increase her marketing appeal and that could drive her into existence.

For openers have you got lines?
 
Eric:

No lines. The plan drawing was cribbed from a 25' Atlas Acadia and lengthened. That resulted in the narrow transom, which might be good for a displacement hull but wouldn't begin to get up on top.

The layout just shows what can be fit in a 35' hull- v berth, head, galley, cabin with a long L-shaped settee, dual helm station, aft cockpit with room to hang out. The extra length makes it possible to add all of this stuff that would be impossible to fit in a 25' hull. It should even be possible to fit it in a 30' LOA hull.

I agree that a semi-displacement hull form powered with a 150 hp diesel or outboard would get more interest. The boat should plane easily at 12-15 kts while absorbing 100 hp or so and burning 5 gph. But slow it down to 7 kts and it should be under 1 gph (diesel).

It should be able to be delivered by a production builder for maybe $10,000 more than an equivalent Rosborough.

David
 
The guy who has the slip next to mine has a Dyer 29. Really like his boat and thought about buying an older one, removing the upper cabin and making a longer more enclosed one. There was one for sale on YW for around $12K that would have been the perfect project boat.

As to your project comparing it to the Dyer 29:

The Dyers are in the 7,500 to 8,500 lbs. range. Barely still trailerable.

They like 220+ HP to plane / cruise comfortably at 15 knots.

Here is the hard top version which could easily be made into a longer enclosed cabin.

Dyer 29

Ted
 
That is a tall bill to fill David, interesting concept though. Weight reduction is important to preserve tralerability. Launching facilities would also need to be considered. High centering and tail dragging could be a problem on a cabin boat this size. Go fasts are not easy in this size range by any means.
 
The Ranger tug is a locally made boat that I have seen in person and find to be a very nice boat. Their R-27 is 6200 dry and would be easily trailerable.
R27p1.jpg

R-27 | Rangertugs
 
I suspect that w the Atkins Marcia if I built it out of plywood I could cruise it at 14 knots w my 60hp Suzuki OB.

The Dyer is a nice boat but a 200hp diesel on a trailer boat .... forget it. A boat approaching 30' on a trailer begs to be light. And of course when it is it's much more efficient on the water. And of course almost any light boat will often be rough riding. So one pays one's dues in any event.

CP you're right a 30 footer on a trailer is too long for a lot of drivers. Even if ya don't get in trouble ya need to pay serious attention and that makes at least a bit of stress.

But I'd still love to have an OB Marcia.

Viking Bay,
That's not what I consider light. As. A trawler the Ranger's are very light to be sure but as a big trailer boat they are heavy and will require a very expensive truck to get it around. Very nice looking boats though.
 
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CP et al: There are thousands of 30-40' travel trailers on the road. At some point you get into an overlength situation in a few states, but for most the limit is 40'. And I don't envision launching your boat at your neighborhood ramp, cruising for a few hours and retreiving it and taking it home like you would an 18' runabout. I had in mind trailering the boat to a destination hundreds of miles from home to cruise for several days or weeks at a time.

VikingBay- The Ranger R-27 might be a good example (or the C Dory, or the Rosborough) to lengthen at least 3-5'. I sea trialed an R-27, but the layout left me cold. Who needs a dinette on a cruising boat?

But if you lengthen one at least 3' then a cabin with an L-shaped settee and the galley down is possible. But the weight- probably 7,000 lb dry would probably make it untenable to trailer with anything other than a 1+ ton diesel dually.

You can build boats lighter. MJM for one seems to do it. But it does seem to take a lot of money ;-). The boat really needs to come in at 5,000 lbs dry without an engine. A single outboard could result in a cruising weight of 6,000-6,500 lbs which should be trailerable by most full size SUVs. A diesel is going to add another 300-400 lbs which still makes it possible to pull with some full size SUVs.

Vacuum resin infusion layup and simple systems might make it possible.

David
 
manyboats said:
...........
Viking Bay,
That's not what I consider light. As. A trawler the Ranger's are very light to be sure but as a big trailer boat they are heavy and will require a very expensive truck to get it around. Very nice looking boats though.
Click to expand...
Well it's trailerable anyway. My boat, although not a trawler, is 6200 dry and loaded on my trailer including trailer is 8440. I tow it with a Chev 3/5 2500HD with a 6.0L gas. Not the most economical when towing for sure, but she gets the job done and we always retrieve the boat and keep her in a garage when not in use.

The Ranger was designed to be that trailerable trawler/cruise boat.
 
Well, I double checked 'Djmarchand's' post and confirmed he had limited the beam. I would take exception to his observation regarding the accommodations to be found on a 25' boat. I will post a site that reflects the layout and makeup of our model 27' (25'on the water line) Marben

. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...s=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1007&url=&imc

Knowing that I fall outside of the parameters posed by 'Djmarchand'. you all can stand down on the fact I pose a 10' beam boat, not 8'. It is just the layout is possible within a 25' boat if you need not the extended aft deck space.
As to the Ranger 27'. I have been on this model and found that layout for two is quite suitable. I would rather purchase a boat currently proven and available over inventing the wheel. However that last statement comes with a cover. The price of the Ranger boats are just plain excessive for the value. In my opinion, the marketing of these has been well done in the sense price is used as a reflective of the selling to unknowing folks with lots of bucks who rather like to quote the market price.Yes, for the dollar and the boatablility the Ranger boat are safe.
For the same dollars given the opportunity, it would be quite easy to obtain on the market a similar value for far less dollars.
That being said, I am sure the site is aware that Bayliner is moving their 32-38 foot class to South America as the market is disappearing for this price range here in the US. My point, the future will belong to boat buyers who understand the market. Product (recent new used boats) is going to be a buyers market. Rangers included.
There- my humble opinion.
A.M (al) Johnson-Ketchikan
Marben 27'
"Your fences need to be horse-high, pig-tight and bull strong."
 
dj......

I'm happy to continue this discussion but (through experience) I've found it fruitless so far. Part of it is the current boat market......many thousands of boats available at give away prices make new builds financially pointless. And the reality of "introductory pricing" means losing money to build your community.....and probably going broke doing this.

Again in my experience, group design projects fail because nobody gets what they want.....Usually they can see that paying a bit more will get them what they really want, and usually sooner.
 
Tad:

Glad you found this thread and chimed in.

My only interest in starting this thread was to get some comments and generate interest in a 30+ foot LOA, 8 1/2 foot beam trawler. I am not trying to design a boat by committee.

It seems that none of the 25-27' trailerable trawlers (C-Dory, Rosborough, Ranger, etc) have a decent interior layout. It seems that it takes 30+ feet to have enough linear space for a galley down, two helm position, L settee cabin.

Whether it can be built at a low enough weight to be practical to tow with a full size SUV is another question.

David
 
dj,

What do you think about the Nimble Wanderer? They claimed about 7600 pounds......
 
Tad:

I somehow missed the Nimble in my trailerable trawler research. It is more like what I had in mind. I don't much like the dinette in the main cabin and the lack of a forward facing passenger seat, but those nits could be easily fixed.

But what can't be easily fixed is the weight. 7650 lbs including ballast (dry presumably) means 8,500 lbs cruising weight. An aluminum trailer will add at least 2,000 maybe 2,500 lbs. That 10,500-11,000 lbs towing weight is above even the largest SUV's towing capacity so it will take a big pickup truck to tow it.

There is no free lunch is there?

But the Nimble does look nice, even though it does seem to be strictly a round bottom, displacement cruiser. With a waterline of 29' it should have a displacement speed of 7+ kts and should easily achieve 1 gph fuel consumption at that speed.

I wonder what they cost?

David
 
How much of a trawler is the McGregor 26?
 
manyboats said:
How much of a trawler is the McGregor 26?
Click to expand...

Eric, I think you may have asked that question kinda tongue in cheek(if not I am sorry) but after being on one a while back I came away asking that same question quite seriously. It's definitely a compromise and nowhere near what most would consider a "trawler" but there is a lot more to like about them than not IMO.

They can do with much less HP though. Hoist a little laundry and they are pretty stable.
 
I like the ballast feature. If it exists as I recall. Water that can be pumped into ballast tanks or discharged at will.

Most all trailerable trawlers suffer when it gets even a bit rough from pounding. Not the Albin 25 though. The McGregor w it's rather rounded and narrow bottom could have a reasonable ride w enough ballast in the right place. And w the ballast gone in light boat configuration I think they cruise 16 knots w a 50 hp OB. Compared to a trawler that's real fast.

But the volume in the boat w it's sailboat cabin is very small and the out in the weather helm station is totally unacceptable to me.

But it's an option.
 
My son and I had a Mac 26X for a couple of years until Katrina took it away. Size considered, the interior was well thought out and emminently usable for a couple of people guys for a weekend. We'd routinely get 15-16 k deballasted on the motor - 12 with full ballast. Trailered like a champ and easy on/off (15 min either way). A very tender boat - the first 15 degrees of heel could be induced by the wake of a passing duck until the water ballast kicked in. However, we had her in some fairly substantial weather and she performed well; but it's a real wet ride.
 
dj.....

Light boats can be done, but it takes mindset and discipline.....We currently have a 40' by 8' boat under construction that is supposed to come in at about 5500 pounds. She will do 12mph with a 25HP Volvo diesel at that weight. A lot of this boat is empty and must stay that way to keep weight in control. Human tendency is to add "improvements", as Dick Newick calls "inconveniences". You can have fast, light, or cheap....just pick any two.

The McGregor does not pump ballast, it's a gravity powered system. There is one open/shut valve in the transom, that's it. You launch the boat, open the valve, ballast tank fills, close the valve. To drain you must either open the valve above about 5 knots, or put the boat on the trailer.
 
The first name for trawlers was "HeavyCruiser" so you really can't have a trailerable trawler as the weight gets out of hand. But you can have all manner of trawler styled cruisers that if under 8.5' can be trailerable even w relatively heavy FG construction If "improvements" are very few. All chain rode and air conditioning NNA.

In the late 50s a Seattle based boat manufacturer (Bryant) made many OB cruisers in plywood that were powered w two 35hp OMC outboards, not very narrow and were 21' long, probably bigger than a 22' Sea Dory. How would a 22' Sea Dory perform w 70hp?
 
Our 1991 C-Dory 22 Cruiser had a 70 hp outboard at first. It worked well for shorter cruises, not too heavily loaded. Cruise 16-18 knots, WOT 28-30. When we loaded her up for weeks/months up in BC and SE AK and filled the 58-gallon fuel tank, the 70 wasn't adequate. We replaced it with a 90 and all was well.
 
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Thanks for popp'in up here Mr Cook.

Better than I thought but I want a bigger and somewhat slower boat like:

http://http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Cruisers/Marcia.html

I have no need or desire to go 25 or 30 knots and I'm sure Marcia would run
12 to 15 w my 60 hp OB. Would be light enough w "mindset and discipline" as TAD suggests. The Sea Dory would sure be easy to build though. Do the flat bottom'ed Sea Dory's have any rocker to the bottom?
 
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VikingBay said:
The Ranger tug is a locally made boat that I have seen in person and find to be a very nice boat. Their R-27 is 6200 dry and would be easily trailerable.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine has ferried some of these up into BC for their owners. Very nice boat in his opinion and they are very trailerable if you have an appropriate tow vehicle. The show-stopper is the price, which is pretty staggering for what you get even if it is well designed and made. For the price of a new Ranger you could get a really nice used "real" boat, even something like a GB. A Ranger is definitely something you want to buy used as I'm told their initial depreciation hit is very high and the boat should come down to a much more realistic figure in a fairly short time.
 
TAD,
Thanks for the info on the McGregor.
The 40' w 25hp must be interesting. I'll look for it on your web site.

Richard,
Since you've had extensive experience w the Sea Dory have you ever slid down the face of a big wave broadside? As I recall the SD has the double chine "sampan" type of hull does it not?

Marin said,
"For the price of a new Ranger you could get a really nice used "real" boat, even something like a GB." Remember Marin a GB is a toy boat. And if I were a Ranger owner I'd be rather offended by your remark.
 
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Hi Eric,

Here's a link to C-Dory 22 Cruiser specs and pictures. No keel rocker, nor double chine IIRC. The bow is relatively rounded, so combined with very light weight it goes through big waves like a cork.

http://www.c-dory.com/boats/classic/cruiser-22/22' Cruiser.pdf

Don't have any experience of sliding down a wave sideways. We got into following seas off Khaz head (west coast of Chichagof) in 96 that were 25-30 feet, and never went sideways or took any water over the bow. Huge swells from the SW built twice as high by the shallowing sea floor there, plus a 20-knot wind. Came out of Piehle Passage into 10-footers, and then turned north rather than retrace our steps through a narrow opening blocked by a huge kelp patch. It had blocked our water intakes, caused the main engine to overheat, and forced us to fire up the kicker and keep heading out into ever larger waves. After 10-15 minutes the big motor cooled enough to run w/o heat alarm, and we worked our way north to the mouth of Khaz Bay. We did have to turn SW again for a mile or so and then zig-zag back N, as the waves had been driving us closer and closer to the many boomers just offshore along the coast - and they were really booming!

I guess we should not have come out into them in the first place, but did not realize they were there. Other than working the throttle as we went down into the troughs and then up again, and watch aft for unusually big ones, the main thing we had to do was keep our fear under control.
 
I think what you are looking for does exist in this Hankison design called the Coastal Cruiser. It is often extend the plans from 25' to 27'. They are trailerable at around 6000lb and can be powered with a 150hp i/o inboard diesel or an OB. They have all the specs you were looking for and with their beam can be trailered without a permit. http://www.glen-l.com/designs/hankinson/coastalcruiser.html
 
Not a trawler, but ...

... I'll be back on the water in the Spring. Sealed the deal yesterday. Taking delivery in early January.
 

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