switching to a trawler from a cruiser

[ksanders]

I'm brand new here, what a nice resource!

We're thinking of making a switch from a cabin cruiser to a trawler. We've been ocean boating for around a decade, and currently have a 28' fiberglass pilothouse cabin cruiser that is a go fast planing hull boat. We use it to go fishing at* the edge of the Gulf Of Alaska*from our home port in Whittier.

I've been thinking of a trawler for some time but our situation changed last summer, making me think more about a trawler. My lovely admrial suffered an injury that makes it painful to get banged around at 27 knots. We love boating so we're very seriously considering making the move to a slower less bouncy boating experience sooner rather than later.

I've been looking at boats down at our local harbor, and supplimenting that with online research. What we're after is a pilothouse trawler of 45-50' Something comfey and stable to make for a pleasurable experience in the voyage and the destination, where our current cruiser is more pleasureable once we get there.

Two boats we really like are the*older Defever 49, and the Hatteras 48 LRC. These boats have the room to be very comfortable, and seem like large stable platforms.

There are several Defevers for sale in the Pacific Northwest, but there are no Hatterases for sale on the west coast. A friend of mine bought one in Seattle last fall and so far seems to really like it.

Does anybody here have one of the Defever 49's or has spent much time on one? I'm especially curious about the bottom of the boat. It is a full displacement boat, but is it a soft or a hard chined hull? Does anybody know what the roll period is? Is there a deep full keel to this boat? Does the boat respond well to stabilizers or does it have enough initial stability to render stabilizers less effective?

Other issues I think about a boat form the 80's is the deck. Lots of boats this vintage are getting soft spots in the deck, some models are more prone to this than others because of construction methods that were used. How does the Defever stack up?

More questions to come...

Thanks...Kevin


-- Edited by ksanders on Friday 18th of March 2011 10:21:45 PM

-- Edited by ksanders on Friday 18th of March 2011 10:23:56 PM

 

[JohnP]

Kevin,* Welcome to the trawler forum, I am sure you will get lots of insight about the boats you have mentioned.

It seems to me you are about to make a huge leap in boat size (volume).

You could probably put 3,* 28' cabin cruisers in a 50' trawler.** You may be on the right track considering how hard it is to sell and move up now a days.* You can avoid a lot of steps by jumping right in with the big boys.

They used to call it "3footItis"* well you got "21footItis".** I am sure you can find a cure for lots of $$$.

Good Luck,* Enjoy the adventure!** JohnP

 

[Tidahapah]

Kevin,
The 49 ft Defever raised pilot house is / can be a very nice boat. Twin screw or single.
I have a mate who has an older timber 49 here in Aus and I love it.
A really comfortable live aboard boat.
They are a chined displacement hull but still roll a fair bit when under way.
One can fit either active stabilisers or paravane stabilisers to minimise this , what ever is you prefered option and depth of pocket.
Have a good look around , Defever, Alaskan and the Hatteras LRC's there appears to be some pretty good buys in the US at present.
Benn

 

[ksanders]

Thanks very nuch. We've had 3 foot itis plenty of times, and have spent a kings ransom maintaining several*boats so not much on a boat is a big suprise to us at this point.

I'm a newby at trawlers but an experienced boater, and even drove my own 34' cruiser*from Seattle to Whittier, crossing the gulf of alaska.

The big decision is really what model to get and then finding the best bang for the buck on that model.

We like the raised pilothouse design.

We're adament on having a wing engine or twins, although we really like the prop protection that burying a single prop in a keel provides

Our cruising area for the time being will be the gulf of alaska and Prince William sound*but we want the ability to make long distance cruises.

Thats why we're looking at the Hatteras LRC or the Defever. We'd think seriously about something smaller in the raised pilothouse style like a krogen 42*or even a willard 40 if they were equipped with a "get home engine".

This is a decision I'll need to make pretty soon. We'll be launching our present boat for the season may 1 and I'm really sure that the pounding will be intolerable to my boating partner. That will for all intent end my ocean boating career if I don't move us to a nice slow stable trawler. I could putt in our cruiser and we'll try that but its got a 375 HP engine and a 28' planing hull boat has too sharp of a motion*in wind blown 3' chop.





-- Edited by ksanders on Saturday 19th of March 2011 08:50:06 PM

 

[Daddyo]

K,
We went from a17' to a single screw 27' to a 36' single and now a 48' twin and I can assure you the jump fom the 27 planning you now have to a 36' trawler would be a huge jump in comfort. I'm concerned that your not fully grasping the magnitude of 27 vs 49.

 

[ksanders]

Daddyo wrote:

K,
We went from a17' to a single screw 27' to a 36' single and now a 48' twin and I can assure you the jump fom the 27 planning you now have to a 36' trawler would be a huge jump in comfort. I'm concerned that your not fully grasping the magnitude of 27 vs 49.

Maybe...

We went from a 28' pilothouse cruiser (a Bayliner 2859) to a 34' Flybridge Cruiser with twin 315 engines. Years later we went back to the same model 28' pilothouse.*


Lets just say that among other things that 34 taught me to assess a boat based on its maintainability. When a nice gentleman approached me out of the blue one day**and offered several thousand more for the boat than I paid for it, well...good lesson learned.

So, i'm familiar with the roominess of a 34' cruiser.*A 49' trawler is a whole different story.

You're correct in that while I've been in plenty of larger boats, I've never really spent allot of time in one. Looking and spending time on a trip are two*different things.

The good thing about this is that I'm not going into this fresh and wide eyed. I do all my own maintainence and*work in both an electrical and mechanical field so I've developed a pretty good eye for machinery.

I'm well read on the subject as well, having read not only Voyaging Under Power, but also David Pascoes books on surveying fiberglass powerboats. I'm not a surveyor of course but a little knowledge goes a long way towards eliminating boats that*are projects in the waiting.

The first step is again choosing a model thats available on the west coast. If my friend puts his Hatteras up for sale before I purchase anything then the search will probably be over.*

thanks much for the input.




-- Edited by ksanders on Saturday 19th of March 2011 10:35:42 PM

 

[Tidahapah]

When I built my boat I went from an 18' fishing boat to a 48' displacement live aboard /fishing boat.
With your back ground I shouldn't imagine you would have too much trouble making the step up.
Benn

 

[Daddyo]

K,
It sounds to me like you're doing your DD well. I'm confident now you'll be fine with the supersizing. My experience with the D-49 is the boats don't live nearly as large on the interior as the exterior would lend you to believe, FWIW.

 

[Rob]

Kevin- I just might have a lead on a GB 42 Classic*located in your part of the country. As you very well kno, having the boat already in Ak is worth a lot of time and $$$. I personally kno the boat. Send me a pvt message with your ph # and I'll get back at ya. I will be out of touch untill after about April 7 as I will be helping a w/a delivery of a seiner from S.E. AK*to Seattle. Think of it as a Spring Break! Sorry that I didn't get back to you earlier, Mind Fart!

Rob

 

[ksanders]

Very cool Rob.

Please tell me more about your Willard.

BTW, I'm heading out to Milne Point to work on a doyon rig this morning.

Bet you miss the cold and the camp food!!!!

 

[ColonyCove]

ksanders:
Small world.* Welcome to the Trawler Forum.* You may remember from the other site we're on that I went from a Bayliner 3488 to a Mainship 400.* I loved the Bay, but I also
had to consider such things as comfort and range.* The Mainship has been great for Phyl and me.* Good luck with your search.*

 

[Nomad Willy]

Rob,
We had Jeff and Janet last night for dinner hope we can dinner you too.
Please drop in Rob and wondering if Anne will be w you.

 

[ksanders]

ColonyCove wrote:

ksanders:
Small world.* Welcome to the Trawler Forum.* You may remember from the other site we're on that I went from a Bayliner 3488 to a Mainship 400.* I loved the Bay, but I also
had to consider such things as comfort and range.* The Mainship has been great for Phyl and me.* Good luck with your search.*

Wow! too cool!

I remember, you had the same 3488 I had didn't you???

OK, you're someone that I know has had some of the same boating experiences.

Here's what I have. The admrial has an injury that took her out of boating last summer. It's a nerve thing that makes sudden stressful manuvering and jarring very painful for her. Unfortunately it seems to be a long term thing. She's trying really hard bless her heart but we sometimes can't help what our bodies do to us.

You know how a 3488 rides at planing speeds through 3' wind blown chop. It pounds, it jars... heck its a planing hull boat.

I've spent zip for time on a trawler except dockside admiring. Having made the switch,*did you find that a trawler eliminates the jarring and fast bouncing that a planing hull endures?

Also part of the reason I'm trying to go much larger is not only the stability that size and weight brings, I'm also looking for comfort, and room to move around. In the 2859, or the 3488 everybody tends to congragate near the helm and holds on, waiting to "get there" With the larger boar I think that the natural anxiety that going from a fast boat to a slow one could generate will be alleviated.

Instead of holding on, folks could have a snack, look at the scenery, have a discussion without yelling, even watch a movie, read a book or play with the dog if they were so inclined. The trip will become enjoyable, not just the destination.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

ksanders wrote:

Also part of the reason I'm trying to go much larger is not only the stability that size and weight brings, I'm also looking for comfort, and room to move around. In the 2859, or the 3488 everybody tends to congragate near the helm and holds on, waiting to "get there" With the larger boar I think that the natural anxiety that going from a fast boat to a slow one could generate will be alleviated.

Instead of holding on, folks could have a snack, look at the scenery, have a discussion without yelling, even watch a movie, read a book or play with the dog if they were so inclined. The trip will become enjoyable, not just the destination.

Yes, yes, yes.* Unless it is an awful, choppy day... people feel comfortable walking about the boat, sitting here, sitting there.* Hanging out, not hanging on...

I've posted this photo before... everyone was kicked back, enjoying the journey as we headed to a brunch event.*

 

[Woodsong]

I agree- life is more relaxed and more gentle at 7-8 knots than it is at 20 knots! Having owned planing hull express cruisers and sedans and now the trawler- I prefer the ride of the trawler the best. However- the ride of our Monk in a beam sea is "rollier" than it was in our 38 sedan. I attribute that to the difference in beam- 13' on the trawler, 14'4" on the sedan and the sedan weighed about 4-5k more than the trawler. Since you are looking in the 47-49' range though you are going to find the boat ridiculously more stable than your 34.

 

[markpierce]

Pineapple Girl wrote:
I've posted this photo before... everyone was kicked back, enjoying the journey as we headed to a brunch event.*

Jennifer, did your party eventually*"woof" it up and have a "howling" good time (re: the CPYC burgee).

 

[Moonstruck]

Kevin, I don't think this has been addressed. If you haven't run a trawler style yacht there are a couple of major differences other than the size. If the boat has full keel, you will find in a trawler that in a current and wind situation that current is usually the ruling factor. Get that keel cross ways to the current, and because of slow response time it is more difficult to counteract it.* With a planing hull, especially if twin screws, it is easy to power the stern around.* With a heavy, full keel boat, you just have to plan your moves a little more ahead.

 

[Art]

Hi Kevin - Not knowing what coast you are on, but reading your and wifes boating needs; the most plentiful for Tollycraft is Pacific, especially mid to North West and western Canada. Some are on the Atlantic too.... I recommend the following:

Research Tollycraft tri cabin yachts - 34', 40' 44' 48' - Ya can't beat em for roominess, gentle rides and capability to get-up-and-go if necessary! They are built well, handle fine in seas and cruise fairly economically at hull speed or just below. Some are gas, some diesel. Visit YachtWorld http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/advancedSearch.jsp and put in Tollycraft 34' to 48'. You'll be pleased at what you find. Ours is a 34' Tolly tri cabin... we love it!

If you get interested...visit Tollycraft Forum http://www.tollycraftboatingclub.com/forums/index.php - or - Tollycraft-Classified http://www.tolly-classified.com/ - see the "models" and "classified" sections.

Happy Boating! - Art

 

[Carey]

Art wrote:

Hi Kevin - Not knowing what coast you are on, but reading your and wifes boating needs; the most plentiful for Tollycraft is Pacific, especially mid to North West and western Canada. Some are on the Atlantic too.... I recommend the following:

Research Tollycraft tri cabin yachts - 34', 40' 44' 48' - Ya can't beat em for roominess, gentle rides and capability to get-up-and-go if necessary! They are built well, handle fine in seas and cruise fairly economically at hull speed or just below. Some are gas, some diesel. Visit YachtWorld http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/advancedSearch.jsp and put in Tollycraft 34' to 48'. You'll be pleased at what you find. Ours is a 34' Tolly tri cabin... we love it!

If you get interested...visit Tollycraft Forum http://www.tollycraftboatingclub.com/forums/index.php - or - Tollycraft-Classified http://www.tolly-classified.com/ - see the "models" and "classified" sections.

Happy Boating! - Art

Tolly also made a great 43' tri -cabin.

 

[SOMERS]

Don't kid your self *big boats can bounce around like *plastic ducks in a bath tub.

**That ocean out there has no friends

**There were 4 of us on a full displacement Nordhavn 47 , we went miles off shore *to pump the bilges , on the return trip we were headed down 6 ft seas towards the out flowing Lucie river inlet in Florida , *the boat was bouncing all over the ocean,*an airline pilot had the helm, *the boat broached, *the pilot over corrected the helm, *the boat spun round like a top, i was thrown across the pilot *house and headed for the door , the coffee maker in the galley flew across the main salon,and the coffee table flipped up side down.

**Be care full what you pray for.
*
*

 

[Moonstruck]

SOMERS wrote:

Don't kid your self *big boats can bounce around like *plastic ducks in a bath tub.

**That ocean out there has no friends

**There were 4 of us on a full displacement Nordhavn 47 , we went miles off shore *to pump the bilges , on the return trip we were headed down 6 ft seas towards the out flowing Lucie river inlet in Florida , *the boat was bouncing all over the ocean,*an airline pilot had the helm, *the boat broached, *the pilot over corrected the helm, *the boat spun round like a top, i was thrown across the pilot *house and headed for the door , the coffee maker in the galley flew across the main salon,and the coffee table flipped up side down.

**Be care full what you pray for.
*
*

Donald, the St. Lucie inlet is a nasty one.* We only use it if in fairly moderate conditions.* It is shallow, shoally, and you have to make a turn to run into it and after getting past the bar.* Coming in with a sea against the tide is a recipe for some rough stuff.* A fast planing boat can catch a wave and ride the back of it in.* A displacement boat takes a really experienced hand on the wheel and throttle.* This is where a drogue could come in handy.* There has been more than one boat lost on the jetty rocks.

 

[SOMERS]

Hi Don.
What is did not say was that the airline pilot *turned the wheel " the wrong way" causing the boat to go into a full broach.

*I have been close to that in sailboat at night on a delivery from Miami to Bermuda we were trucking along at *11 kts with two of us on the tiller.

*We were screaming on a following sea *we even has a car tire to use ad a drogue but did not use it *, the worst thing in a sailboat is having a green one come over the stern if you are going to slow.
*

** *You *have a fast boat and therefore can keep on the *following wave.

*I hope that i will never get in the same situation with my barge.

**St Lucie *fl is not nice.

*Don i have stories to tell that will blow the lid off.
That ocean out there has no friends.

*No body is going to sleep tonight .*

Donald



-- Edited by SOMERS on Tuesday 22nd of March 2011 06:20:29 PM

 

[Moonstruck]

SOMERS wrote:

Hi Don.
What is did not say was that the airline pilot *turned the wheel " the wrong way" causing the boat to go into a full broach.

*I have been close to that in sailboat at night on a delivery from Miami to Bermuda we were trucking along at *11 kts with two of us on the tiller.

*We were screaming on a following sea *we even has a car tire to use ad a drogue but did not use it *, the worst thing in a sailboat is having a green one come over the stern if you are going to slow.
*

** *You *have a fast boat and therefore can keep on the *following wave.

*I hope that i will never get in the same situation with my barge.

**St Lucie *fl is not nice.

*Don i have stories to tell that will blow the lid off.
That ocean out there has no friends.

*No body is going to sleep tonight .*

Donald



-- Edited by SOMERS on Tuesday 22nd of March 2011 06:20:29 PM

Donald, right you are.* Respect the ocean because it is no respecter of persons or things.

This may seem as a side discussion, but I think it is very relevant to the subject at hand.* There are great differences in displacement and semi displacement hulls to a planing hull.* All these differences should be taken into consideration when buying a boat.

 

[ColonyCove]

Kevin:
Don is right about the sea being unmerciful, but to answer your question in general terms, the trawler style boat is typically a more stable platform than an express cruiser with a deep V planning hull.* However, one can get too used to the comfortable ride, and be unpleasantly reminded that they are on a boat underway.* I always*caution Phyl to use the "one hand for the boat" rule when moving about.* If I'm running from the upper helm, I don't always have a chance to warn those below that a large wave is coming or a maneuver is required to avoid something.
Every boat has a purpose, some are better than others for their intended purpose, but the ocean is mighty big regardless of what pleasure craft you're on.

 

[FF]

'the coffee maker in the galley flew across the main salon,and the coffee table flipped up side down.'

Sounds like the boat was not RFS (ready for sea) a common problem when folks "just go for a ride" to void the waste tanks.

"i was thrown across the pilot house and headed for the door ,"

Some of these high volume boats lack hand holds , that would intrude on the vastness.

 

[SOMERS]

I think that we are trying to guide Ksansers who i believe has previously owned a large boat i could be guilty of digressing from the requested topic .

We are all competent captains many have hundreds of miles under our belts and you will have much to learn from us.
However the final choice of boat rest entirely on your shoulders.
Good Luck .

 

[Pineapple Girl]

markpierce wrote:Pineapple Girl wrote:
I've posted this photo before... everyone was kicked back, enjoying the journey as we headed to a brunch event.*

Jennifer, did your party eventually*"woof" it up and have a "howling" good time (re: the CPYC burgee).

*
LOL brunch was at OPYC so I am sure you can come up with some more puns.

*

 

[Art]

SOMERS wrote:

Hi Don.
What is did not say was that the airline pilot *turned the wheel " the wrong way" causing the boat to go into a full broach.

*I have been close to that in sailboat at night on a delivery from Miami to Bermuda we were trucking along at *11 kts with two of us on the tiller.

*We were screaming on a following sea *we even has a car tire to use ad a drogue but did not use it *, the worst thing in a sailboat is having a green one come over the stern if you are going to slow.
*

** *You *have a fast boat and therefore can keep on the *following wave.

*I hope that i will never get in the same situation with my barge.

**St Lucie *fl is not nice.

*Don i have stories to tell that will blow the lid off.
That ocean out there has no friends.

*No body is going to sleep tonight .*

Donald
*

I Agree - The Sea IS Its Own BOSS!

Open water or even relatively closed water locations can suddenly become extremely treacherous, even deadly, when influenced by unusual or unanticipated weather, tide, current or their many combinations that can result in severe sea conditions.* My guide-statement that I live by regarding any boat I captain, its crew and the ongoing/altering sea conditions... When You Least Expect It, Expect It... The only constant is change!* And, I try to never place the boat, me or crew in an untenable position we simply cant escape from.* In other words... If its gonna become too ****ty, stay moored in the city! *Theres always good weather coming my way for further*voyage and more*play!!*

Regarding Tollycraft boats I mentioned on 2^nd page of this thread: When I said... They are built well, handle fine in seas and cruise fairly economically at hull speed or just below. guess I should have qualified the word seas in this part of the sentence, regarding*... handle fine in seas....* I will add a bit here: Every boat has its own particularities regarding its sea handling capabilities, and every captain has their own prowess regarding ability to maximize each boats capabilities... so... the seas I refer to are meant to represent sea conditions that all portions of the voyages contingent can handle!*

On another note: In addition to sea conditions that could/might/will place big handling-obstacles in front of any boats captain and crew... Misuse of right of way is my pet peeve!* Too many boating accidents occur because the boat operators (captains) either do not understand or maybe do not adhere to right of way laws of the sea. *The following rule of thumb is one of my favorites that pop taught me during decades of New England voyages.* BTW, immediately after quoting the following, during his captain maneuvers to avoid a mishap while allowing an idiot to*misuse right of way... hed shake his fist at the transgressor, while yelling at top of his lungs - - > YOU DAM STUPID SOB, YOUR NO CAPTAIN AND SHOULDNT BE ALLOWER ON THE WATER!!*

So... heres my favorite rule of thumb on the water, Thanks Dad!! Here lies the body of one Michael O Day.* He died defending his right of way.* He was right, dead right, as he sailed along; but hes just as dead as if he were wrong!* I repeat this while too often encountering errant right of way boat operators.*

Thoughtful boat handling helps make happy boating! - Art

*

 

[ksanders]

Thanks everybody for all the help and advice!

I've thought about this quite a bit and the boat I'm looking to move to is going to be a full displacement, soft chined hull, utilizing either active or passive stabilization.

I've thought about a larger semi displacement hull or a larger planing hull. Actually being a cruiser owner I've thought about these quite a bit. It would actually be easy for me to pick out a larger planing hull boat. The switch in hull form raises many more questions.

Does anybody know of any photos of the Defever 49 hauled? I'm really interested in learning more about that hull.

Thanks again...Kevin

 

[Baker]

Kevin, it is funny that you typed that because that is really what this all boils down to....hullform. A full displacement hull will provide you the best dynamic stability while going displacement speeds. But I will say one thing....that D49 will roll like crazy. The fact that you will be implementing stabilizers will obviously counter that. My suggestion was going to be a semi displacement hull that is able to utilize the hullform for speed. Not for speed's sake, but or stability's sake. The dynamic pressure(lift) against the sides of a SD boat doing speed WILL stabilize the boat. I am talking 12-15 knots here....not 27! And speeds in that range are not alarming nor do you feel the need to "get there"...it is still a relatively relaxing pace. A properly designed SD hull will NOT pound because there are no flat sections for the water to impact except the very stern....and I hope your stern is not leaving the surface of the water....if it is, you have bigger problems. Anyway, a boat like a Nordic Tug 42 should have wonderfully comfortable motion doing speeds in the SD range if you needed to do that for stability....ie a beam sea. And I am sure it would do fine at displacement speeds should the conditions allow.

And like someone said, the D49 appears HUGE on the outside but doesn't seem as big on the inside. I guess you are giving a lot of room to the large side decks(a la GB Europa). Anyway, I used to know someone with a D49 and like the boat very much. But he did say the thing rolled like crazy. And if you look at how tall they are, that will give you a good idea. ANyway, just my thoughts reading through these posts....

Welcome aboard!!!