Solar vs Wind

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I wanted to start a discussion on solar panels versus wind generators. I am considering a setup for next year's cruise. I see mostly solar on power boats and wind on sail boats. Both have advantages and disadvantage.

I saw this wind generator (D400) and was very impressed. It was very quiet.

The D400 micro wind turbine

 

[Al]

Well that subject sort of fell by the wayside Tom, maybe the difference is you need a sail with the wind unit? Just seemed to mell together by terminology. Just saying


Al

 

[AusCan]

It really depends on 2 things.
1. Where you are and how much sun and wind you get.
2. What real estate you have for mounting panels or wind generators.

We usually get plenty of sun and wind, but I prefer solar. The sun comes up every day and solar panels will always generate some power even on cloudy/rainy days. Windless day produce zero power.

 

[MurrayM]

Why not both?

Modest solar setup for those long sunny days of summer with sporadic afternoon winds and a wind generator for those short winter days/long nights where the wind and rain can last for weeks.

 

[Insequent]

I agree that wind generators are almost invariably on sail boats, with solar being on both sail and power boats. Seems to me the main reason is that sailboats typically have a lot less electrical systems on board and daily Ah demand. Refrigeration and freezer demand is usually the biggie, and sail boats will typically have far better insulated units than power boats, reducing daily Ah demand significantly.

Wind generators such as the one in post #1 just don't give enough output to be worthwhile on a power boat where I am. Its not even close, they are an order of magnitude too small. Now if you have low sun angle, short days, cloudy/windy weather then you just might get enough out of one over a 24 hour period to justify the outlay. So location is an important consideration. Still, if you have a generator you are going to be running it regularly and the wind genny will not reduce your main generator hours by much at all.

I have 6 x 345W solar panels. Although its winter I'm getting peak performance of up to 138A (at 12V) and 1880W from them. But more typically the atmosphere has particulates/moisture in it and even on bluebird days peak is often "just" 100A +/-10A. But daily Ah from these panels is over 500Ah when not on shore power or cruising and getting alternator charge as well.

 

[Peter B]

Alaskan Sea-Duction said...
I wanted to start a discussion on solar panels versus wind generators. I am considering a setup for next year's cruise. I see mostly solar on power boats and wind on sail boats. Both have advantages and disadvantage.

I saw this wind generator (D400) and was very impressed. It was very quiet.

The D400 micro wind turbine

Why not both?

Modest solar setup for those long sunny days of summer with sporadic afternoon winds and a wind generator for those short winter days/long nights where the wind and rain can last for weeks.

That is the best compromise if one is wanting to avoid running a generator - usually why folk want to have solar or wind generation in the first place. And that, of course, comes back to how much power demand your boat needs, as Brian says. If you run Ac 120v or 240v stuff, then a good generator is still the best, but if like me, I have no AC on the anchor - only for batt charging & quick initial water heat at the berth, then using all 12v stuff, and converting as many lights to LED as possible makes good sense.

I have solar panels up on the aft part of the flybridge deck, where no-one needs to walk, and the Airbreeze wind Gen. It suffices for what we draw, but more panels would be needed if we ran more electrics.

That unit in your link Alaskan Sea-duction is a good unit. Better than what I have I think. And it is amazing just how good and quiet they can be in winds that are not all that strong. Certainly plenty of summer nights will also see charging happening, as well as during the day.

Just important to preferably have a decent MPPT typer controller, preferably designed to control both solar and wind gen. together, or otherwise they tend to get into fights, with one tending to shut the other down. Usually the solar panels win.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Have two 140 watt (12v) solar panels and one small Airbreeze wind generator on Bay Pelican. We are in the Eastern Caribbean where there is plenty of sun (12 hours only) and steady wind.

In normal situations the two systems seem to have an equal output over 24 hours.

In our location I would add more solar if I had the real estate for mounting. The solar panels are maintenance free and for all purposes don't exit. The wind generator is another mechanical electrical machine that requires maintenance from time to time.

As far as sailboats with wind and power boats with solar, in our location most of the sailboats have both. The cats with their large fixed biminis usually have multiple units. The monohulls generally have solar panels hanging off the rails or on top of their dinghy davits. The trawlers typically start with solar. A couple have added wind. A friend with a Nordhavn 46 put six solar panels on his pilot house roof and for the most part stopped using his diesel generator.

On Bay Pelican both systems have paid for themselves in reduced diesel generator run time, as well as providing options if the generator fails. In this calculation I am including the ongoing maintenance items for the diesel generator, such as oil and filters as well as the diesel. Run time has been cut by an hour a day.

 

[FF]

Power boats frequently have noisemakers , as well as no power problems while powering underway.

The sailors use the wind machines underway .

Small solar will top off a batt bank, usually all a sail has room for.

With most any refrigeration at about 100AH of 12V it takes a big solar field to do refrigeration.

 

[psneeld]

Wind is good if you routinely anchor in wide open spaces, is steady for days and most of the time 15 knots or greater.

My study of where I boat....

I try to avoid anchoring in windy places
Wind rarely stays steady for days
Steady winds are rarely 15 knots or greater.

But if your boating area has those 3 things, then wind becomes more viable.

If you are sure about your wind speeds, please refer to the wind forecast thread where everyone seems to complain about wind speed forecasts....

 

[Pure pleasure]

Don't know alot about them but the wind gen in the marina are loud don't know it I would want to hear that all the time

 

[Bay Pelican]

Don't know alot about them but the wind gen in the marina are loud don't know it I would want to hear that all the time

We will with almost every boat in the anchorage having a wind generator. Noise level varies by brand and model. Also by the mounting. The new "blue" blades are much quieter.

We selected our unit based on sound, not output. We are very happy with the sound level.

 

[twistedtree]

How quiet is quiet? That's the issue I have with wind generators. I find them supremely annoying when they are other people's boats, let alone mine.

 

[Tom.B]

We have discussed this a few times here before. My takeaway has always been that as powerboaters, neither is really the best option for most. I understand why sailboats need it. They spend (or have the potential to spend) many days, or even weeks, underway without the engine running. Energy regeneration during these times is critical to them. Us? As powerboats? We can't do much of anything without firing up the engine(S). Even if you were planning on a few days at anchor, wouldn't an hour or two with the engine and/or the generator running be way more efficient of a charging method than either solar or wind running all day? Certainly more reliable should it be a calm or cloudy day.

Just food for thought. To me, it also seems like another full system to keep up with.

 

[Bay Pelican]

wouldn't an hour or two with the engine and/or the generator running be way more efficient of a charging method than either solar or wind running all day? ......

Just food for thought. To me, it also seems like another full system to keep up with.

Our two solar panels (140 watts each) generate between 8 and 14 amps per hour from 9 am until 4 pm.

Our small wind generator generates 6 amps per hour 24 hours a day. When the wind howls it generates as much as 15 amps per hour.

Fully agree they are additional systems to maintain. But then I wish I had two small diesel generators so that if/when one goes down the other keeps me going.

In past years I had to pull into a marina when the diesel generator wasn't working. Not bad if you are in the US, Canada or Australia where you can get something fixed in a day or two, but for us it may be weeks to get the part.

 

[foggysail]

I have 4 each 140-150 (depending on which brochure I read) watt panels. When the batteries (4 each 225 amp golfcarts) see the morning light, those panels also see the light. They will charge just shy of 25 amperes for most of the day.

We are power pigs when on anchor and enjoy TV, lights and a 8.3 cu ft fridge with self defrost.

I am waiting for Atlantic Towers to find someone to haul my latest hardtop from NJ to MA along with doing the installation. When the installation is complete, heck I might add some more panels although what I now enjoy keeps my batteries completely charged.

 

[Diesel Duck]

ASD, I'm sure you've already thought about this... One of the first things I'd consider doing prior to installing solar panels and or a wind turbine (Small Wind Turbines | Silentwind - Wind Generators) would be to figure out how to reduce my energy needs. For example, one of the easiest is to replace any antiquated lighting with LED. You might also consider, if you haven't already done so, is replacing your high energy consuming refrigerator with something more efficient like one or two of the Waeco CR140's. If you have a water maker, which typically consume large amounts of juice, or if you are considering installing one, I'd consider the 24v Spectra Catalina 300. It only draws 7.5 amps which is one of the lowest for the amount of water it produces.

Having both solar and wind power along with some retrofitting and, of course, a large house bank of batteries you could easily be on the hook for several days without having to run a generator.

 

[foggysail]

ASD, I'm sure you've already thought about this... One of the first things I'd consider doing prior to installing solar panels and or a wind turbine (Small Wind Turbines | Silentwind - Wind Generators) would be to figure out how to reduce my energy needs. For example, one of the easiest is to replace any antiquated lighting with LED. You might also consider, if you haven't already done so, is replacing your high energy consuming refrigerator with something more efficient like one or two of the Waeco CR140's. If you have a water maker, which typically consume large amounts of juice, or if you are considering installing one, I'd consider the 24v Spectra Catalina 300. It only draws 7.5 amps which is one of the lowest for the amount of water it produces.

Having both solar and wind power along with some retrofitting and, of course, a large house bank of batteries you could easily be on the hook for several days without having to run a generator.

Good general advise but not for all. If ASD has space for panels, he would be wise to consider them and of course your conservation suggestions.

I already admitted to being a power pig so the last thing I want to do is conserve. My solar is so effective I need only run my genny to make coffee in the morning, power the hot water heater and recharge a 24vdc bank. That bank provides a power for a couple of LeD lights. Its primary use is for my windlass.

 

[Andiamo2018]

Just bumping this thread to see if anyone has anything new to add. Solar panels and batteries seem to be advancing rapidly (I haven't heard anything about wind) so I'm wondering if anyone has any 'new' thoughts on the topic?

 

[SteveK]

Wind is better suited to sailboats. I will not expect it to become popular in power boats.

 

[Andiamo2018]

My installation will be on a power boat that isn't going anywhere Before I got it the engines were removed and one engine was replaced with a fairly small 48 volt sailboat auxiliary unit just to move around the marina.

I'm in SF bay and there is fairly constant and strong breeze year around and good sun especially on calm days.

 

[Peter B]

That’s funny, I posted to this thread yesterday with a photo of my AirBreeze set-up on our boat, before we sold it, but the post and phjoto are gone today. What gives..?
I’ll try again...

We were very happy with the windpower added charging, to a couple of modest solar panels, and it was not noisy enough to ever be a bother.

 

[Hippocampus]

We lived with two D400s and two solar panels for 10yrs while full time cruising. Routine was eastern Caribbean in winter and New England in summer with direct (1500-2000nm) passage in between.
Our experience exactly matched Fatty Arbuckle’s published experience. In the lighter air and longer days of northern summers the solar out performed the D400s. In the 12h days and stronger winds of Caribbean winters (mostly Windwards) the wind generators out performed the solar. But overall daily production adding the two varied very little. Unless in a marina even in the Caribbean rarely used AC. Ran a DC watermaker (spectra Cape Horn extreme) every 4th day. Would vacuum the boat while running the watermaker and AC to have an excuse to run the northern lights once a month. Otherwise no genset except rare multi days of no sun and no wind of significance.
Even actively cruising you spend the vast majority of days stationary. It’s ideal to be burning no fuel when in that setting. It’s a good thing to not need shore power as supply in some marinas is very shaky and a possible cause of fire or boat damage.
Wind works 24/7 so even with less production per hour can easily match solar production given limited real estate for solar. Wind generators were serviced once a year. We’d wax the blades with bowling lane wax. Used Dawn to lubricate if we needed to take a blade out.
We’d wash the panels anytime we had unlimited access to fresh water.
Both are very low maintenance. Both survived many squalls and a few gales.
Think D400s are the best choice. Very low noise and excellent production. With wind the most important thing is a totally rigid installation. You want absolutely no vibration. We used 4” aluminum pipe with a reenforced base. Do not use the brake except on very short occasions in light air for servicing. Both our solar and wind were at original outputs when we sold the boat. We did have to lasso a blade on occasion due to the rules in some marinas but never had a complaint from neighbors when in a marina.
I’m surprised very few trawlers have wind. Seems to me an easier installation on a trawler especially a flybridge and minimal if any impacts on fuel mileage. Wind is stronger the higher you go. Wind and solar complement each other. Having both makes sense.

 

[Hippocampus]

As said so many times talking about boats. “It depends”
In the eastern Caribbean or many parts of the med it blows 10-15 all day,every day and at least 10 at night.
Sun isn’t as good in the northeast US lots of cloudy days and more rain. Angle not as beneficial. Except in summer length of day duration less. So for us we were trading the longer northern days with lighter air when north to the shorter (better sun angle) but stronger consistent wind days when south. Was initially surprised solar output was less than air when south.
Dare anyone to find an anchorage in the eastern Caribbean not exposed to wind at values allowing wind generation.
Would suspect for the vast majority of people you spend more time stationary then moving. Same for sail or power. For long term cruisers much more so. Believe some peoples thinking about wind reflects bias not reality or provincial to their specific use pattern. OP wants to cruise for him a mix maybe a good solution.