Semi-flexible solar panel install

[fryedaze]

[FONT=&quot]The install of the solar panels on my bridge canvas is almost complete. I thought I would share info on progress to date. I purchased three Semi-Flexible 150 Watt Solar Panel, High Efficiency Sunpower Marine Rated panels on eBay, a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Morningstar TS-MPPT-45 Tristar 45 Amp MPPT Charge Controller & Morningstar TS-RM-2 Remote Digital Meter. Our canvas needed replacing so we had the canvas folks add the new Velcro lapels and channels to the new top. They also stitched Velcro to the front and back of all the panels. The panels will be secured to each other with stainless [FONT=&quot]h[/FONT]ex [FONT=&quot]bol[/FONT]ts through the grommets on the panels.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The output cables from the solar panels are #10. They will run inside a Velcro pocket on the roof to the bimini support frame pockets. I ran the cable in a silver/chrome snake skin down the bimini support post. I thought it would look better and protect the cable from the sun.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is a 2 pole 50 amp beaker that is wired to the solar panel positive and the solar controller positive output. This will result in isolation of the controller input and output on a fault.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The MPPT controller ties into the positive terminal of a 50 amp fuse panel on the bridge. This fuse block is supplied by the 940 amp-hr house bank via #2 cables and a 100 amp fuse. The fuse panel was previously installed to support a fridge on the bridge. It’s not part of the system the leads just pass through it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Morningstar MPPT has a remote monitor that is mounted inside the boat. It has a ton of info that can be pulled with a computer. It also saves historical data.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As soon as it warms up a little and my stainless sex nuts come in we will finish the install and the MC4 connector work. I haven’t seen too many of these set ups. I saw a few online on sailboats. I hope it works out. Fryedaze consumption on the hook is about 200 amp-hrs a day. I hope to get about 150 amp-hrs out of the panel in fair weather. Wish me luck.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dave[/FONT]

 

[fryedaze]

Thats "sex bolts"

 

[fryedaze]

A few more pictures.

 

[CPseudonym]

I've been looking forward to this thread for some time. Interested in hearing how your system performs as it would more than cover our meager requirements. The soft panel may be just the ticket we've been looking for.

 

[BruceK]

My panels are rigid, mounted both sides of the FB, outboard of the railings. They get occasional shading, but are safely located. To avoid stressing the panels by any deck uneven-ness, I made mounts by screwing the panels to aluminum angle strips, in turn screwed to 1" square teak sections, and instead of screwing the teak mounts to the deck, glued them on with Sikaflex. So far so good.

 

[Drake]

Thats "sex bolts"

Thanks. I was about to ask where I could order some of those. Seems like something I should keep on hand.

 

[Peter B]

I have two Uni-solar flexible solar panels up on the bridge way back near the corner closest to the pole for the Airbreeze, so out of likely foot traffic. They can be mounted by simple bimini or cover mounts, (see pic). Although I did carefully seal the screw holes those are mounted with, it would have been better if I had done what Bruce did and glue wood squares down to mount them on, and that would have given more air-space under them as well. As it is, I ran a thick white rubber fender strip along the length of each down the centre for a air gap. However, my upper deck core is already damp, so what the heck.

 

[Wxx3]

I wish I would have thought to mount them on my bed like you.
But my only question is whether your cabin gets enough sun? Or do you just turn on lights to have the panels produce power?

Thanks for all the details.

The hardest part of our install was getting the cables through the Pilot house race, as it is already packed full.

 

[fryedaze]

I wish I would have thought to mount them on my bed like you.
But my only question is whether your cabin gets enough sun? Or do you just turn on lights to have the panels produce power?

Thanks for all the details.

The hardest part of our install was getting the cables through the Pilot house race, as it is already packed full.

Oh I see, Irish humor http://www.trawlerforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[fryedaze]

Yeah! She is all done.

Well we had a 50F day so the boss and I installed the panels. We connected the three panels and covered the underside with plastic. The plastic was used so we could slide the panels in place without the Velcro interfering with sliding them in place. Once in the right location the plastic was slid out from under neath panel and the Velcro sealed. They went up pretty easy. The guys at Quantum Sails did a great job with the fit up on the top. The MC4 connectors were greased up with dielectric grease and fit into the pockets designed by the fabricator. When I hotted up the system it was putting out 233 watts at 3:30 PM in a clear early March sky. I will do some research and see if that is what I should expect. Once things warm up I will pull shore power and get a feel for what the daily output is.
Dave

 

[CPseudonym]

With my limited knowledge of things solar I'm impressed with 233 watts out of 450 watts of panels. My understanding is that panels are rated at best case scenario under impossibly ideal conditions. A very clean looking install on otherwise useless real estate adds up to a win-win in my book.

 

[River Cruiser]

Thanks for the informative post, I've contemplated some solar but have never pursued it because of the lack of suitable mounting locations. I never gave any thought that the bimini was a possibility. I would really appreciate a update in a year on how well this works out for you, I'll try to remember to ask for one.

 

[fryedaze]

Thanks for the informative post, I've contemplated some solar but have never pursued it because of the lack of suitable mounting locations. I never gave any thought that the bimini was a possibility. I would really appreciate a update in a year on how well this works out for you, I'll try to remember to ask for one.

Ron, once I can kill the engine room heater I will drain the batteries down and pull shore power and see how the data looks. All I need to do now is figure how to dump the data to the laptop.

 

[healhustler]

With my limited knowledge of things solar I'm impressed with 233 watts out of 450 watts of panels. My understanding is that panels are rated at best case scenario under impossibly ideal conditions. A very clean looking install on otherwise useless real estate adds up to a win-win in my book.

Craig: Before I reskinned my roof to prepare for new panels, I once saw 155 watts out of my twin 84 watt Kyrocera panels. It was Miami FL and full mid-day sun. Pretty close, huh?

 

[CPseudonym]

That is close Larry, closer than many I've heard about. Being nearer the equator is always a good thing with solar.

 

[BruceK]

I work on 50% of theoretical output, if I see that I`m very happy. Most controllers tell you what went into the panels the current day(pun not intended, really,)and 2 days preceding.
Rebel, who hasn`t posted in a while, installed over the bimini canvas, and the canvas people created reinforced holes for the "you know what" bolts to secure them.
With solid panels it is best having airspace of an inch underneath for cooling. If the flexible panels sit on canvas is that ok? Could be, it`s not like an impenetrable surface. The great thing about Dave`s install is the no loss of use of any part of the boat. My location achieves that too, but PV exposure is less optimal.
One thing to watch is battery fluid level, usage can be quite alarming. Mine was worse than it should have been, I mistakenly set the float voltage too high, but still got 5yrs out of the first LA batt which I just replaced. I also turned off monthly equalization, that hammers batts, I understand sulphation comes with chronic undercharging, which is not usually the case with panel fed batts.

 

[Donsan]

This has been a very interesting thread for me too.

I had done some thinking about placing a hard top over our aft cabin deck and mounting solid panels but now I am giving some thought to using a canvas top over the aft cabin deck and mounting semi-flexible panels as the OP has done. Michigan isn't ideal for solar panels but I have seen a few. My primary motivation is to do the loop with an extended stop over in Florida.

Looking forward to more posts on performance and suitability of this type of approach.

 

[Heron]

This has been a very interesting thread for me too.

I had done some thinking about placing a hard top over our aft cabin deck and mounting solid panels but now I am giving some thought to using a canvas top over the aft cabin deck and mounting semi-flexible panels as the OP has done.

Me as well...I have an aluminum framed "soft" hardtop over my aft deck that would be the perfect place for flexible panels....

 

[woodsea]

Fryedaze,
Curious what $ you figure you have into the project materials? Labor hours?

I have a hardtop where I have been considering mounting two good size panels. I have other projects competing for $.

 

[fryedaze]

Morningstar TS-MPPT-45 Charge controller $369
TS-RM-2 remote panel $103
3-150 watt semi-flexible panels $897 eBay
50' #10 solar panel cable $31.68 Amazon
(2) Tri MC4 connectors $12 Amazon
(10) MC4 Male /Female connectors$8.49 Amazon, only need two
5 feet #8 tinned cable est $8 West marine
Box connectors $5
Canvas work $300-$500 to en existing top. I needed to replace my canvas anyway so I rolled it into the replacement
Chrome colored wire snake skin, $1/ft

All in $1800

I probably spent 10 hours mounting equipment and running wires, then an additional 4 hours for the wife and I to install the panels and finish the last connections. I work pretty slow

 

[Rsysol]

Nice looking Job Dave, thanks for sharing. We are considering the same but we cruise to some high wind areas, any concerns with this on your setup?

 

[fryedaze]

Nice looking Job Dave, thanks for sharing. We are considering the same but we cruise to some high wind areas, any concerns with this on your setup?

I dont see the wind getting under it. The Velcro is some pretty tuff stuff. It takes a lot to pull it back open when it has been attached. The panels have velcro on the bottom side that is attached to the canvas top. Then there is velcro on the top of the panel that the velcro lapel folds over and onto the panel. Not sure what my new hurricane prep will be. In the past I have pulled all canvas. Other than the size and the pain it is to pull the velcro apart the panels will just be disconnected at the connectors and slid off the top. The total array is 52" X 78" so storage could be an issue if you don't take the panels apart. Sorry for the rambling on.

 

[BruceK]

Me as well...I have an aluminum framed "soft" hardtop over my aft deck that would be the perfect place for flexible panels....

Looks great, but I was taught, for rigid panels, airspace of an inch is necessary for cooling effect. I suggest checking if that applies to flexible panels. Hopefully it doesn`t, or canvas underneath allows adequate cooling.

 

[fryedaze]

Looks great, but I was taught, for rigid panels, airspace of an inch is necessary for cooling effect. I suggest checking if that applies to flexible panels. Hopefully it doesn`t, or canvas underneath allows adequate cooling.

My engineering gut tells me that the heat transfer across the canvas will be plenty. I will hit it with the thermometer gun when summer get here. Hopefully I will remember to report back.

 

[fryedaze]

Surprised

I was at the boat today doing an in place cleaning of the Genset HX and was surprised at how much the solar panels put out in miserable conditions. It was raining and very overcast. The panels were still putting out 75-100 watts ( about 5 amps) from 1100 to 1400 today. I would have thought it would have been almost nothing.
I was playing with the remote monitor learning the new indications. It has some pretty cool indications; Battery temp, MPPT controller temp, solar panel output voltage (they were 27.5 today) , battery service days (tracks how old the batteries are) amp-hrs today, total amp-hrs (resetable), amps and volts. Between this monitor and the Victron battery monitor I have a great picture of the entire system.

 

[AusCan]

I like it! Sounds like a great package, which takes up virtually zero usable space.
I was considering something similar as my bimini canvas needs replacing. I went to a local solar "expert" who advised me that the semi-flexible panels were terribly inefficient and had a short life due to heat buildup. He strongly advised me against any semi-flexible panel. Your real data suggests otherwise.

I also noted that this "expert" did not stock flexible panels. Perhaps this is the reason for his recommendations.

 

[healhustler]

Great info, Dave, thanks. To save weight and mounting hardware, I'm considering some high-buck, glue-down panels that are really efficient. What stops me is that if these panels don't require space beneath for cooling, it stands to reason that the heat generated from the dark color would simply be absorbed by the hardtop, and eventually to the interior to a great extent, depending on the hardtop's insulation. Of course, with the exception of summer months, this would be much more of an issue in FL than in MD.

 

[Peter B]

I like it! Sounds like a great package, which takes up virtually zero usable space.
I was considering something similar as my bimini canvas needs replacing. I went to a local solar "expert" who advised me that the semi-flexible panels were terribly inefficient and had a short life due to heat buildup. He strongly advised me against any semi-flexible panel. Your real data suggests otherwise.

I also noted that this "expert" did not stock flexible panels. Perhaps this is the reason for his recommendations.

Aus, if you are replacing the bimini canvas from scratch, you might want to consider the flexible panels that can be zipped into the replacement top. I saw a demo at the last Sanctuary Cove Boat Show, and it looked very neat and strong, and completely avoided attachment and chafing issues.

 

[twistedtree]

Very nicely done! It's hard to tell in the pictures, but are the velcro flaps back from the edges of the panels all the way around? In some areas it looks like they may be shading the edges.

 

[fryedaze]

Your right, it looks like there is a small about of shading in some areas. I think it will stay that way. I want to keep full contact on the velcro. Thanks for the question, I hadn't looked that hard at it. The corners of the panels were left open to allow drainage.