Seeking Advice: 1971 Hatteras 53/60 - take over a family heirloom?

[socalrider]

Ok, need some coolheaded guidance from the forum here... I posted this over at the Sam's Marine Hatteras forum as well

I'm a fairly experienced boater, and have owned a '79 CHB42 trawler for the last four years, 40' sailboat before that. We've had a blast exploring the cruising grounds between San Diego and Santa Barbara for the past 6-7 years over the summers; most often it's me and the wife, our 3 kids, 2 dogs, and various kid friends, parents, etc. We've been thinking of upgrading to a larger boat.

Family patriarch recently passed away on my wife's side at 94 years old; he owned a 53 from new in 1971; it was extended to 60' at the factory. He adored this boat & kept it in a slip at his home on the Pacific coast of Mexico, professionally maintained with no expense spared. In the early 80's my wife and her cousin spent a year living on the boat, cruising the Pacific MX coast. She has fond memories of that time, adding to the sentimental value of the boat.

There's nobody else in the family who wants her - family has asked if we are interested.

I've always loved the look and build quality of these old Hatt's. I'm broadly aware of how much more complex they are than my CHB42, which was a relatively simple boat to start with that I have simplified further (single big 12VDC bank, no generator, no HVAC, no 120VAC at all). I've maintained our boats almost entirely myself, with the exception of an injector pump rebuild on our last boat's Perkins 4108.

I'm trying to get a sense of how much of a step up in time/$$ keeping a boat like this would be. It has been re-powered around 2006 with 6v92's which reportedly put out 500hp/ea. She's stabilized, and has HVAC. Electronics and galley appear to be functional but outdated. Master stateroom has two small beds which is weird & I'd probably want to change.

Obviously, I'm considering this quite seriously. In an ideal world I'd take 6 months & move the family onto her and cruise in MX before bringing her back to San Diego, but not sure I can pull that off. More realistically we'd take our normal 4-6 week summer cruise to take our time delivering her north before hurricane season. I think the next rational step would be to find a really good surveyor to get an honest view of the boat. Any other suggestions?

 

[Comodave]

Sorry for the family loss. It will be a big step up in complexity. There will be many more systems to deal with. But it would also be a great boat. The price is right. If it were me I would take the boat, I am assuming it would be free to you. Then use it for a period of time to get a feel for the costs and work maintaining it. If it becomes too much then put it up for sale.

 

[ScottC]

What a nice opportunity! And you know the boat's history!!
I too have always admired the lines of those big Hatteras MY's - 53' & up. The design is sort of timeless, in my opinion.

If it were my choice and I had a chunk of cash set aside I could use for minimal updates, I would go for it. But...
- I would check on insurability & insurance costs first
- I would check on availability and cost of dockage at your intended home port first.


Then, as Comodave said, if you find you don't want to keep it, you can put it up for sale with having made only the minimum possible investment in it.

 

[Xlantic]

Those Hatteras motor yachts have a sterling reputation, deservedly so from what I understand. And that one is definitively special given the family links and single-owner maintenance history.

It is a big step-up from your current boat which has implications on handling, and mooring and maintenance costs. The re-powering 16 years ago is plus, though.

One thing you will be gaining in relation to your CHB 41 is space, accommodation capacity and cruising range. If you value these enough to overcome the above draw-backs then it probably makes sense.

Six years ago I went from a 1979 GB 42 to my current 1973 GB 50. The main driver here was my interest in being able to accommodate my family of five plus friends in extended summer cruises in the Med. The GB 50, with four staterooms and three heads has ample capacity and with 540 gallons of water we can spend a month anchoring without needing to visit a marina.

A drawback has been the maintenance effort. While the increase in area (LOL x beam) is only 20%, the GB 50 has a whole additional deck level and the surface area nearly doubles. This means double the cleaning, varnishing, upholstery etc.

I have been striving to simplify the boat in order to lower the maintenance burden and the aesthetics. I have been removing systems added by POs that I do not need and were obsolete or in need of repair. I took out three AC units, a radiator-based heating system, the generator and much obsolete electronics and other "stuff" and bric-à-brac that had accumulated over the boats's 50 year life.

I added a fixed roof over the flying bridge including 2 kW of solar panels which, together with two 100A externally regulated alternators meet our electric energy needs as I also changed the cooking to gas.

The Hatteras is stabilised which is a big plus but I would budget to add a bow thruster.

Good luck! (and show us some pictures of the Hatt!)

 

[CharlieO.]

So, are you getting the boat for free? or paying the estate?

Go down and give it a good personal once over before you commit to a survey.

I too am a fan of simple systems on a boat.

If you decide it's not the boat for you after the 6 week family vacation cruise in Mexico are you free to sell it?

 

[boomerang]

I'm quite familiar with Hatteras Yachts since I worked for a dealer in the early 80's. While I've never owned one, I've always liked the 53, especially the 53 yachtfish. The 53 Hatteras was the best you could buy when it was built. The systems were state of the art. The engine room(s) of the 53 speak for themselves. There's storage everywhere. Every time you turn around, there's a head! The woodwork is beautiful. The lower helm is so darned nice. To find an older 53 that has been maintained by a loving owner...an owner that you know personally...is like hitting the jackpot. To find a 53 that has been extended (presumably with a cockpit) makes the boat almost perfect. The cockpit makes line handling easier ,boarding the dock or a dinghy easier and allows for a great outside lounging area.
Yep, an extended 53 is just about a perfect boat...IF...
...If you want a 60' ,twin diesel motoryacht. It is so night and day different from what you've owned in the past and what you own now. Compared to your current boat the dockage fees will be way higher and finding a slip will be harder. Insurance will be higher. The maintenance difference will make your heart skip a beat compared to what you have...you've indicated you're a do-it yourselfer. You can learn on a Taiwan boat. You probably need to know what you're doing on a good condition older Hatteras. Everything is first class yacht quality and I wouldn't want to attempt a repair without pretty good knowledge of the Hatteras systems.
Yes sir, the extended 53 is one of the nicest boats out there ,IMO. If you have a need for an extended 53. Otherwise, it's just another nice boat that you can admire while you cruise by in your economical 43 trawler that suits you fine.
One thing. The title of your thread reads "seeking advise". This and most other other forums is just a bunch of boaters and a lot more wannabe boaters with opinions. That's what you need is opinions, not advise. Use the opinions to make your own decision.
Good luck with your decision & if you couldn't tell, I think the boat sounds like a beautiful one that I'd love to own! If I wanted one.

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm a fairly experienced boater, and have owned a '79 CHB42 trawler for the last four years, 40' sailboat before that.

he owned a 53 from new in 1971; it was extended to 60' at the factory.

He adored this boat & kept it in a slip at his home on the Pacific coast of Mexico, professionally maintained with no expense spared.

I've always loved the look and build quality of these old Hatt's.

I've maintained our boats almost entirely myself,

It has been re-powered around 2006 with 6v92's which reportedly put out 500hp/ea. She's stabilized, and has HVAC.

Electronics and galley appear to be functional

Your practical approach sounds right, but notice many of your statements are already suggesting reasons to follow through on it.

Good boat, well kept, stabilized, repowered, mostly immediately suitable for your usage (excepting that master berth thing, addressable)...

Assuming practical steps (survey, insurance, slip, etc) are positive, I think I'd take that one in a heartbeat.

And it also would become a sort of still-in-the-family tribute/memorial to the original owner, too.

-Chris

 

[Ken E.]

Go for it....what an opportunity!

 

[mvweebles]

Make sure there is slip availability where you'd to ultimately leave it. 65' slip is pretty big for California.

I'll guess that when you say it's dated, it needs carpeting, appliances replaced, upholstery, furniture, etc. This is expensive work and may not be practical in Mexico where low labor cost is offset by high materials cost (and some materials may be difficult to source at any price, such as foam for cushions, decent furniture, and US brand appliances).

The old 32v electrical systems, if present, always perplexed me, but electrics are a weakness for me. Upgrades and modifications might be costly. You may also want to consider what upgrades, if any, are needed for HVAC.

The stabilization is indeed a benefit, but in all candor, many of these boats were stabilized. If this has the original Vospers, know some important parts such as Gyro are no longer available. The system may need replacement at some point. If so, would run well north of $65k (guess).

Its none of my business, but I'd guess it's not free to you since it was not a bequest. In fairness to others, it should be liquidated and proceeds distributed, but you may be able to get an attractive deal on it. Biggest benefit is you know the provenance. But the net cost to you will repairs and upgrades may be roughly equal to buying a good condition Hatt that has been upgraded along the way.

I'll go on a limb and say you probably need to decide if you want a much bigger boat right now. Sounds like you could get some use out of it. Then you need to decide if a Hatt is the right option for you. Then whether or not this Hatt is the right choice.

Given you've pinged Sam's Forum, hoping you will update us here. They are an incredibly knowledgeable resource and I'd be very interested in their collective wisdom.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

The old 32v electrical systems, if present, always perplexed me, but electrics are a weakness for me.

You've hit on one of the three technical reasons we haven't pursued a Hatt solution.

I reckon 12 and 24VDC, plus 120 and 240VAC, is enough to keep track of. Adding 32VDC to that, with systems available but fading, just seems like a bridge too far. Probably wouldn't put me off in OP' situation, though. Depending.

My other two are the 2-stroke DDs and the ladders. I could live with former, even though our most recent move brought us from mechanical to electronic/common rail 4-strokes. DD's just not my favorite...

But we're not doing ladders anymore. Stairs are becoming difficult enough. I just never did see an older Hatt with decent stairs or with ladders that we could obviously modify into stairs.

Since you reminded me... I mention these more for OP's benefit, given the situation. I view the whole idea or taking on this boat generally favorably (maybe), but then I dunno OP's state of health, preferences, etc.

-Chris

 

[Gdavid]

Sounds like an interesting opportunity but a huge jump in financial outlay. Could be fun, but it could also become a giant headache.

I would expect the rest of the estate beneficiaries to desire a fair market value of the boat to go into the estate and there may be hard feelings from relatives if they feel your nuclear family "ripped off" the estate if purchased significantly under what they expect it to bring. I doubt they would appreciate the responsibility and financial risk involved in just bringing it home, keeping it insured and then the annual storage and upkeep.

It is a blessing that your young family enjoys your boat and time spent on it. At some point kids tend to lose interest in spending time away from friends and in close proximity with parents. I would be concerned about having a 60' boat to maintain around the time the kids are entering high school and starting to make plans for their future, especially if you and your wife are going to be paying college tuition.

The risks seem to outweight the rewards in my view. Perhaps you can arrange to charter the boat from the estate for a week or two, before it is on the market, try it on for size, and if the family falls in love with it, it is meant to be. Otherwise, I would allow it to be sold to a third party, put a portion of your wife's share of the proceeds to fund your current boating adventures and enjoy what you have.

 

[mvweebles]

BTW- having the master stateroom reconfigured might be a reasonable cost in Mexico. Note that there may be obstructions to work around such as tankage (usually water tanks), rudder gear, and exhaust. Sometimes placement of the head compartment impinges on logical placement of an island berth. The Sam's Marine forum would be the best source for this info. As a wild guess, I'd say $15k in Mexico, double if in the US.

At 9-kts, boat will probably burn around 12-14 gph including generator. Diesel in Mexico is running around $4.35 USD right now.

Another item to check is dinghy. If needed, getting a replacement in Mexico will be quite a bit more expensive and difficult than in US. And your choices will be severely limited.

Assuming the estate requires some sort of fair market valuation, would need to consider that its in Mexico. Value would be considerably less than if it was in, say, Florida.

Finally, you will probably need an agent to assist with canceling the old TIP (temp import permit, good for 10 years) and reissuing under your ownership. If the TIP has expired, could take a bit of work and time.

Peter

 

[READY]

I am a fan of Hatteras and 53 is a great model. I had a 58 extended deck house MY, kind of a big brother to the 53. I now have a 48LRC. If you want an independent evaluation I know a great surveyor here in San Diego who owns a 53 and knows Hatts inside and out. He does surveys in Mexico often and is fairly priced. PM me if you want his contact details He is a forum member.

If you are here in San Diego happy to meet for lunch or a drink and share what I can about Hatts.

The extension to 60 while still a nice boat is going to add to the monthly cost and as pointed out slip availability here in SoCal. I is also a lot of boat to handle.

The 32V is a pain but many items can be converted to 12 or 24 and DC to DC converters are readily available

The Detroits are solid engines but over time parts might get harder to source. But I would not be too concerned over that.

The surveyor can also provide a fair market value for the estate which will be much lower than the normal price shown at the end of the survey. Just a wild guess, sight unseen I am guessing it will be in the $150k-$200k.

I am also happy to make a quick trip down to see it with you if I can catch a cheap nonstop flight from TJ. I assume it is in La Paz or PV? Not a pro, just an experienced owner. No charge but you can buy dinner!
Ken

 

[PM]

As others have pointed out, and I m sure you are aware. A boat like that is very expensive.

The estate has every right to expect a decent purchase price. Even severely discounted for the family connection price should be considered.

With your experience you should be able to make the switch to the larger, more complicated boat. I would guess the learning curve would be to the magnitude of five or six.

Crunch the numbers, then crunch them again. Then probably crunch them again.

pete

 

[O C Diver]

If you and your family are going to use it a substantial amount, go for it. If not, it will become a money pit because of its size. Add up the annual expenses if it just sat. Then calculate the cost to cruise it (all in) per week. Then be realistic about how much you will and can afford to cruise it. Remember, the costs aren't going to decrease over time.

Sometimes family heirlooms are best enjoyed as cherished memories as opposed to anchors around your neck.

Ted

 

[sunchaser]

Suggest you put aside the family heirloom consideration and look at it as a potential boat purchase. Regarding no expense spared, a good survey and cold eyed view of topics as validly raised above may be warranted.

A few years ago a relative purchased a large vessel that had "no expense spared" while berthed in MX waters for several years. Not so the case as north of the border survey standards and maintenance protocols were applied when the vessel entered the US.

But, if you've got the time and money to bring the old girl "back" it could be a fun several year project.

 

[socalrider]

Thanks for all the generous responses all! A few clarifications to questions asked and some further questions of my own:

- We were casually looking for a larger boat already & are prepared for the increased costs this entails. We were probably going to delay for at least another year or two. Wife is interested in eventually retiring on a boat, so having something large & stabilized for the rolly West Coast would be good.

- The exact deal with the estate is not yet 100% clear but we'd be getting the boat either free and clear or significantly below market - the family does not want to sell the boat to an unrelated party. I like the idea of agreeing to distribute the proceeds to the estate should we sell the boat within X years to give an agreed-upon and fair out if it doesn't work out for any reason.

- Working on the slip thing. I don't actually have a LOA measurement but I suspect it's 65'. Big. $2-3k/mo expense. There are also a few moorings which can accommodate this size, and I've been on the wait list for a few years now.

- Also like the idea of getting some work done in MX, particularly the master conversion; also possibly a hard flybridge roof. Right now there's just a tiny bimini. Flybridge access is a significant bummer, as it puts the area off limits to my aging parents and our big Greyhound. Luckily the wife and I are fit and relatively young (late 40's).

Pic attached:

 

[CharlieO.]

Go for it. Sometimes things come along for a reason. You are not unaware of what this type of boat requires of an owner.

If I was already casually looking for larger and I and the wife wanted to retire to the boat, yup.

 

[mvweebles]

Thanks for all the generous responses all! A few clarifications to questions asked and some further questions of my own:

- We were casually looking for a larger boat already & are prepared for the increased costs this entails. We were probably going to delay for at least another year or two. Wife is interested in eventually retiring on a boat, so having something large & stabilized for the rolly West Coast would be good.

- The exact deal with the estate is not yet 100% clear but we'd be getting the boat either free and clear or significantly below market - the family does not want to sell the boat to an unrelated party. I like the idea of agreeing to distribute the proceeds to the estate should we sell the boat within X years to give an agreed-upon and fair out if it doesn't work out for any reason.

- Working on the slip thing. I don't actually have a LOA measurement but I suspect it's 65'. Big. $2-3k/mo expense. There are also a few moorings which can accommodate this size, and I've been on the wait list for a few years now.

- Also like the idea of getting some work done in MX, particularly the master conversion; also possibly a hard flybridge roof. Right now there's just a tiny bimini. Flybridge access is a significant bummer, as it puts the area off limits to my aging parents and our big Greyhound. Luckily the wife and I are fit and relatively young (late 40's).

Pic attached:

Looks like a really nice boat.

I'll add one last observation. Fact that your wife is eager is a HUGE plus. Something you guys will do together which will smooth-out the rough edges of a grand plan, especially if it goes south. These are great liveaboards.

You sound clear-eyed about this. It could end up being a serious financial mistake (as boats tend to be). I viewed my refit as a ridiculous frivolity I can make once or twice in my life. My guess is that if you don't do it, in 20-years you'd always have the nagging thought in the back of your mind......

Good luck - keep us posted. This has the making of a great story.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

I obtained my current boat in a somewhat similar manner. Financially, it was a horrible idea, but I knew I could make it work (even if just barely at times). And it was a lot of boat to jump into as a first boat (albeit with knowledge of the specific boat and previous boating experience).



This would a huge jump compared to your current boat, but it sounds like you've got a pretty solid handle on what you'd be getting into.

 

[High Wire]

Do you know from the family how much money was spent to keep it in prime condition? You will spend similar if not more with today’s inflation.

 

[tiltrider1]

As previously mentioned getting a slip is priority number one. This you seem to have a good understanding of the costs.

The actual costs to operate will be about double what you are used to. It’s a lot more boat and it’s going to use more fuel to push it through the water. A surprising benefit fit will be the increased speed. While the slower you go the better the fuel economy will be you will always burn more fuel than your past experience.

Maintenance will be three times the cost that you are used to. Sixty five feet is just three times bigger than 42’. You will realize this when you first try to wash the boat. Every thing on the boat is just bigger and more expensive. Take a zinc for a 1” shaft and compare it to the price of a zinc for a 2.5” shaft. Not to mention you will need twice as many zincs. This goes on, water pumps, windless, water heaters, etc. Everything is just bigger and due to smaller volumes of sales considerably more expensive.

None of this is meant to scare you off. Just a factual answer to your cost question.

Someone mentioned looking at the boat before you higher a surveyor. This is good advice. It is very common for folks in their late 80’s and 90’s to actually stop maintaining their toys. It is very possible that this boat has not been maintained for 10 years. We have seen this time and again where some one who spared no expense suddenly stops spending any money. In their head they reason that since they are not using the boat it doesn’t need any maintenance. You might find the boat perfect or you might find a nightmare. Don’t assume based on past experience.

I don’t know your financial situation so I can’t tell you what to do. Can you do the maintenance yourself? For the most part yes but there will certainly be more items that are too large for you to lift than in the past.

 

[Comodave]

If you do get it we will need way more photos…

 

[socalrider]

Do you know from the family how much money was spent to keep it in prime condition? You will spend similar if not more with today’s inflation.

Yeah, we have no idea. They have a guy who basically lives at their property whose only job is to take care of the boat. That would *ahem* be a bit beyond our means here in San Diego!

Plan for a slip would be to get on a wait list here in SD & then move it from MX once it's available.

Bow thruster would sure be nice to have... ~$50k?

We have a trip planned to MX in early Feb, so will take a close look then. I promise more pics!

 

[rslifkin]

A bow thruster would be nice on a boat like that, but from what I've seen, the Hatteras 53 (at least in un-stretched form) has pretty good close quarters handling. There's one locally with no thrusters, but the owner is a very skilled helmsman in close quarters. I've seen it spun in a space no more than 10 feet longer than the boat and backed into a slip at the bulkheaded end of a basin. That's a slip I wouldn't willingly back my boat into despite being significantly smaller (I'd go bow in and back out if I had to go in there). I've also watched the guy back it into an easier slip with 20+ kts of crosswind and it didn't appear to have much in the way of bad habits (and had a good bit of grip on the water, so it didn't just blow around in the wind).

 

[socalrider]

A bow thruster would be nice on a boat like that, but from what I've seen, the Hatteras 53 (at least in un-stretched form) has pretty good close quarters handling. There's one locally with no thrusters, but the owner is a very skilled helmsman in close quarters. I've seen it spun in a space no more than 10 feet longer than the boat and backed into a slip at the bulkheaded end of a basin. That's a slip I wouldn't willingly back my boat into despite being significantly smaller (I'd go bow in and back out if I had to go in there). I've also watched the guy back it into an easier slip with 20+ kts of crosswind and it didn't appear to have much in the way of bad habits (and had a good bit of grip on the water, so it didn't just blow around in the wind).

That's encouraging. She does have quite a keel on her. I still feel like anything is easy compared to my 41' fin keeled sailboat. Maybe worth hiring a captain or someone like your friend to boost my powerboat skills instead.

 

[mvweebles]

That's encouraging. She does have quite a keel on her. I still feel like anything is easy compared to my 41' fin keeled sailboat. Maybe worth hiring a captain or someone like your friend to boost my powerboat skills instead.

BTW- my guess is a bow thruster would be around $15k-$20k installed. The tunnel is actually pretty easy to punch. Cost varies based on electrical/cabling requirements. This is also something to consider doing in Mexico.

If you have work done in Mexico, might want to consider Mazatlan. I haven't been, but understand they have a couple decent yards. The guy who runs the team working on Weebles in Ensenada is from Mazatlan so I could ask him. Of course, having her worked on in Ensenada might be an option too. Convenient for you.

Peter

 

[Comodave]

I had a mobile thruster company quote me $24K to do a bow and stern thrusters on our Formula. The Hatt would obviously need a larger thruster so I would guess $25K or less. The quote I had was from a year ago. The company travels all over the east coast and Great Lakes doinf installs. It is all they do so their prices probably reflect their expertise at doing the installs.

 

[Crusty Chief]

Hope it all works out for you. Couple of things to add that might make the decision process a bit easier. I would consider leaving the boat in Mexico for the time being and possibly relocating it to say San Carlos area. You should be able to get a slip there for considerably less than PV (assuming that it’s parked there now). We stored our boat in San Carlos during covid and it was a short drive across the border to bring in parts and supplies. We crossed at Nogales. San Carlos has great network of people to use for assistance if needed for just about any type of work . Several yards are available in the area as well as dry storage if needed.
Good luck!

 

[Blissboat]

The hull extension may skew things a bit, but for what it's worth I have a lot of time handling a 58' Hatt Yacht Fish with 8-71s, and found it one of the easiest and most enjoyable boats I've ever operated in close quarters. With a little practice, you can just about make it sit up and dance. For that reason, a bow thruster way would be down on any priority list of mine. Try living with it for a year or so, and then decide if it's necessary.

As others noted, the Hatt has many more systems to manage and maintain than your CHB. On the other hand, they're just systems. It's unlikely that they will all gang up on you at the same time. Those that are critical to keeping the boat afloat, like bilge-dewatering, are things you are already experienced with. The rest you deal with when time permits, one-by-one.

She's a beauty, and with a great story behind her as well.