Sea Ray Sundancer 250, Info, please

[PM]

So...I had hardly completed the sale of my 36 foot Albin when this Sea Ray fell into my lap. The Admiral and I had decided we wanted to be "Boat Free" for a year to catch up on other projects. Fate intervened. It's on a really nice aluminum trailer and I guess you could say "it followed me home". Mama said I could keep it if I took care of it.

Anyway..I HATE stern drives! This one has a 454 gasser with low hours and a Bravo lll outdrive, which is dual prop.

The boat was a distress sale. Neglected, Dirty, Uncovered for about 5 years. Properly winterized and solid. It' a 1996 and has a good pedigree and good bones.

There is a Sea Ray owners group on the web but I don't really like it. I was disappointed that there is not a sub forum on T.F. pertaining to Sea Rays. Probably because it is not really a trawler.

Can anyone help me with any information on this make and model ? I would really like an owners manual, wiring diagram, etc.

Don't judge me too harshly for my decision to buy this boat. We really wanted a trailerable boat to explore rivers and lakes not available to us on the Albin. It has a nice cabin and we will treat it like a trawler. And the marina fees were beginning to bother us.

One more thing. You simply can not beat the sound of big block contentedly gurgling.

pete

 

[ranger58sb]

There is a Sea Ray owners group on the web but I don't really like it. I was disappointed that there is not a sub forum on T.F. pertaining to Sea Rays. Probably because it is not really a trawler.

Can anyone help me with any information on this make and model ? I would really like an owners manual, wiring diagram, etc.

You might still be able to get manuals from the Sea Ray site. Decent, when they exist, separate manuals for both Owners and Parts. OTOH, they've shoved a lot of that onto "local dealers" so if you can't find what you want, try a local SR dealer.

There are two owners sites, one run by Sea Ray itself (step through via their website to owners stuff) and the other sponsored by BOE Marine (clubsearay.com). Former seems more about socializing with Sea Ray owners, latter is all over the map (like here) including "How To" stuff from other owners.

-Chris

 

[Fletcher500]

Club Sea Ray has the usual assortment of characters you would expect on any web forum, but also some sharp people who can help out with questions. Your posting style can be quarrelsome at times and they will definitely give it back to you.

 

[Ken E.]

Since Sea Ray is still in business, you might get some help from their customer service dept. Searay.com. Forty years ago I had a 26' Sea Ray Weekender with twin V-6's and OMC outdrives. Had a lot of fun with it.

 

[rslifkin]

From a supportability perspective the drivetrain is pretty good despite the pain of a stern drive. Both the 454 and the Bravo 3 are common as dirt. And in a boat that small and light, the fuel penalty for blasting along on plane is likely minimal compared to trawler speed (which is pretty slow with that short waterline).

 

[READY]

I had a 270 sundancer. If the engine is original, even with low hours it is about 30 years old and they turn at high rpm. Would be sure to inspect the exhaust elbows (pull and check inside). High potential to rust and fail. I would probably just replace it regardless and sleep better at night. Still a fun boat for how you plan to use it.

 

[ranger58sb]

Club Sea Ray has the usual assortment of characters you would expect on any web forum, but also some sharp people who can help out with questions. Your posting style can be quarrelsome at times and they will definitely give it back to you.

Yeah, lots of threads there about stereo systems and components (heads, amps, speakers, subs, remote control, etc...) and about streaming music services... and off-topic stuff...

Some very decent tech folks there too, though...

-Chris

 

[sunchaser]

Pete
Does the boat say 250 DA on the side? What year is it? WI has many past Sea Ray dealers who've been re-named with employees who've worked on SR of that vintage. Lake Geneva, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Traverse City etc should have some good help especially with your vessel on a good trailer.

If rats and mice took this one over watch out! Wiring, fuel lines, upholstery and hoses are most likely toast.

We had 3 SeaRays but even when new a so called owner's manual was only in the dealer's hands.

 

[Shrew]

Having owned other Brunswick boats, I can attest the manual is useless. It's a 25 foot express, so the DC is fairly straightforward. It will all be ATC fuses in a fuse bus under the helm. AC will be the panel most likely as you enter the cabin by the stairs.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Wiring diagram is not likely to happen. They used standard boat wire colors so it should be very simple to figure out.


I have a ton of experience with 454s and bravo drives and can offer some tips:


When the cone clutch starts slipping, you can take it apart, and swap the reverse and forward gears to extend clutch life. You can also and roughen the female clutch surface with emery cloth to restore function.


The water intake hose that goes through the gimbal housing will get slowly crushed by corrosion growing in the inner surface of the hole the hose runs through (it's nicknamed "bravoitis"). You need to address this now and then or the engine will starve for water and overheat.


Make sure the gimbal ring U-bolt remains tight. If you operate the boat with the U-bolt loose, the gimbal will bear out and steering will get sloppy. Same thing can happen to the steering lever if the pinch bolt is not tight. It you do find the steering loose, it's easiest to fix by removing the engine to get access. Making access holes in the top of the gimbal housing may seem like a better plan, but it's typically not a good option. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I can typically get a 454 out of a boat like that in 40 minutes with a helper.



When you replace any rubber parts like bellows and impellers, use only OEM stuff. The aftermarket stuff is junk, even Sierra branded stuff. Same with shift cables.


If you have a catastrophic failure of the upper gear set/housing, know that a Bravo 1 or Bravo 2 upper gear housing will bolt right on and you can find them used pretty easily. The only difference between the Bravo 3 part and the others is the oval trim cylinder hole and "celery stick" on the B3. A 2:0 ratio B3 upper is the same internally as a 1.5:1 B1 upper.



Make sure you water shutters are in good condition.


If you have a plastic water pump housing, it's best to just replace the housing and the impeller/wear plate as a set.


If you need a new gimbal bearing, do not buy the permanently-lubed type, get the original that allows for greasing and keep it greased.


Grease the engine coupler often, especially if you run at slow speed a lot, that really beats on it hard (which is opposite of what you'd think...).


Keep the engine and drive aligned properly.


Build a drive stand and learn how to pull the drive. It's shockingly easy.



A "Prop R Thing" B3 prop wrench will come in handy. Use a chunk of 2x4 against the ventilation plate to keep the props from turning while you use the wrench.


Those oval port 454s (300 or 310 PSHP) like a 3000 RPM to 3600 RPM cruise. The square port 454MAGs (365 PSHP) are OK with higher cruising RPM.



Feel free to ping me if you have any questions.

 

[rslifkin]

I'll second replacing the plastic water pump housing, impeller, and wear plate as a set. The kits aren't expensive. I do mine (same basic water pumps on my engines just mounted differently) every other year and that's kept them working reliably.

For the low output 454s that top out in the 4000 - 4400 RPM range, generally 3400 is a safe bet for "max continuous power". If it turns up to 4400 or is spec-ed up to 4600 then I'd consider 3500 as max continuous.

Exhaust risers and such are definitely something to pay attention to, as a failure will put water into the engine.

But as long as you keep the bolt-ons in good shape and run the engine in a reasonable range, the standard 454 will last a very long time. My starboard 454 was replaced after it lost an oil cooler line and wiped the main bearings. The port is original with a bit over 1900 hours. Runs just like the one with 400 hours on it, still has good compression, good oil pressure at hot idle, minimal oil consumption, etc. and generally every indication points to plenty more life remaining.

 

[sunchaser]

We ran a 454 at 2800 RPM in a 240DA and cruised effortlessly at 28 mph.

 

[Crux]

I'm with you on trailering. Our second boat is a 28' Stamas.

You might enjoy..
https://www.amazon.com/Great-Loop-S...60492&sprefix=Great+loop+side+,aps,199&sr=8-3.

 

[Fletcher500]

Yeah, lots of threads there about stereo systems and components (heads, amps, speakers, subs, remote control, etc...) and about streaming music services... and off-topic stuff...

Some very decent tech folks there too, though...

-Chris

Ranger, I haven’t been on the CSR Forum in over 10 years but remember some raucous discussions. But as you note, some sharp tech people as well who were very helpful to me when I was learning the boat. BTW, love your boat, it was always one of my favorite SR models.

OP, we had a 36 Sundancer and really enjoyed it. For a day boat and spending time at anchor I don’t think the Dancer aft cockpits can be beat. Our kids were around back then and we often had their friends scrambling all over the boat, jumping in the water non stop and having a blast. It had straight drives and I also hate stern drives especially in salt, but I don’t think you are going to find straight in that size range.

 

[psneeld]

Found this on Sea Ray website... 1996 250 Sundancer owners manual.

https://owners-resources.searayweb....s/1996_250 Sundancer_90-96_Sport_Cruisers.pdf

When I worked at a Sea Ray dealership back in 2000-2003, I though those years Sea Ray had the best owners manuals available.

After buying a 2023 motorhome and a 2023 Mako Skiff.... the older Sea Ray manuals blow those companies away as their manuals are very nearly useless.

Mako doesn't have a customer service line to the factory so you can ask build questions and the typical answer from the dealer is "I'll check and get back to you" which they havent so far after almost a month.

 

[ranger58sb]

We had 3 SeaRays but even when new a so called owner's manual was only in the dealer's hands.

Having owned other Brunswick boats, I can attest the manual is useless.

Found this on Sea Ray website... 1996 250 Sundancer owners manual.

https://owners-resources.searayweb....s/1996_250 Sundancer_90-96_Sport_Cruisers.pdf

When I worked at a Sea Ray dealership back in 2000-2003, I though those years Sea Ray had the best owners manuals available.

Maybe it depends on model year, maybe documentation not so great on older models?

We have a very decent 2006 Owners Manual (222 Pages) and a reasonably detailed Parts Manual (162 pages) and one of them includes electrical schematics. Downloaded from the same link area PSN mentioned.

And then the original delivery included a bazillion hardcopy manuals for the various onboard systems... maybe 10-lbs of paper?... and those survived the ownership chain. Mostly displaced by softcopy versions that I keep in a Dropbox account... so I can access all with our various laptops, tablets, etc.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Ranger, I haven’t been on the CSR Forum in over 10 years but remember some raucous discussions. But as you note, some sharp tech people as well who were very helpful to me when I was learning the boat. BTW, love your boat, it was always one of my favorite SR models.

As it's turning out, we have mixed feelings about this ride. It checked all the boxes on our shopping list, but with use we're also finding some less attractive attributes. And I probably never will warm to the exterior styling...

And it came to us at about two tiny steps above POS, fixer-upper at least, unexpectedly bordering on being a project boat...

In the meantime, seakeeping is very decent, we can putter along nicely... go faster when appropriate... and I haven't found anything else that tics off all the checklist entries.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

Yep, Sea Ray for the big models was giving out the manuals in those old style pilot chart bags that were near the size of a carry on bag and were chock full of info.

 

[sunchaser]

Chris
In 1990 our new from the dealer SR had a paltry amount of manuals. However at that time the dealers parts desks were amazingly complete. We never lacked for SR prowess in finding replacement items for the poor quality plastic bits and pieces that were a SR standard at the time.

As best I remember our last SR had a packet of individual manuals for equipment such as Mercruiser, Kohler, windlass, Rule etc. We sold our last Searay in 2006 through the same dealer we bought it from. They had a large stack of build manuals that weren’t for sale. That site was razed when Marine Mac took over and I’d guess a lot of well organized dealer paper work disappeared.

Given the cost of say a new 25’ bow rider, I’d guess a well tended and garaged SR could be largely refurbished for about 1/3 the cost. Amazingly, just like rebuilding old muscle cars the resurrections of worthy SRs and Cobalts are occurring.