Rewiring the whole boat

[TheLake]

For a variety of reasons I have decided to take the plunge and rewire my 80's vintage CHB 42' Trawler.

The project has started and I have removed all my batteries and shore power and I am actively stripping out all the old wiring. I know it's going to be a big job, but I am looking forward to it.

As I pull out the wiring, a number of things have come to light that make me think that there are some other "side projects" that I should do at the same time:

1. Soundproofing the engine room - as I look to get access to the old wires (alot of wires abondoned) I have taken the roof off the engine room, including the white "holey" panels that the manufacturer put on. Since I have removed the plywood from the engine room roof, I am going to put something newer in for sound insulation
2. Hydraulics for steering - the last owner told me the hydraulics were leaking and constantly needed to be topped up. Looking at the old copper pipes with many connections, I can see why. I am going to rerun these with flexible hydraulic tubing and get the pumps and pistons rebuilt
3. Plumbing - lots of old copper that needs to be removed to get access to the ceiling. So going to replace with PEX pipe
4. Spongy flybridge floor - since I am doing the work I have decided to remove the headliner and repair a bit of sponginess in the flybridge floor

I am building out a new electrical system in Visio and then will get it validated by a Marine Electrician.

My initial question to the group is: is there a market for the used electronics that I am taking off? I have an old Freedom 20 inverter/charger, my old DC and AC panels, etc. that I am replacing. Should I be trying to sell these or just take them to recycle?

Some initial pictures are attached.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Comodave]

Looks like a big job but it will be nice when you are done. Keep us informed as to how it is going. Probably not much value in the old electronics.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I envy your initiative. No better way to understand your system. Good luck!

 

[psneeld]

Did the same thing.

Rewired mine as 50A 125/250 vs dual 30s. Each major section of the boat has its own AC and DC circuits versus port and starboard.

Also did the plumbing to pee.

Big jobs but have been enjoying the rewards for 6 or 7 years now.

 

[Bob Nala]

Big job. Good to hear your looking forward to it. Big payback in knowing how everything is connected and for resale. Good Luck!

 

[Unclematt]

I had my boat rewired by a marine electrician last year. I had him replace basically everything. He replaced the steering system when he installed the new auto pilot. My wiring looked like that when he started which is why I hired him. There was a lot of cut wires some of them were hot. He found six potential fire hazards. Best ton of money I have spent. I changed out the fresh water system using Pex in place of copper.

 

[High Wire]

Working or for parts electronics can be sold on eBay. Take clear pictures and be honest about the condition. You can search for sold similar items by checking the “completed” sales in the search.

 

[Nick F]

Hi Chris - I might be interested in the old inverter at the right price.
Regards,
Nick

 

[Mako]

Throw your old stuff on eBay. $10 or $20 plus shipping will buy you a 6-pack to relax after a long day of ripping out that nasty rat’s nest of wires

 

[Lou_tribal]

Welcome to my world, started to do the same last summer. Not very difficult if you plan it ahead. I discovered some diamonds from the PO and a bunch of unused wires that were just adding to the old mess. Nice to see wires properly run and identified, and a lot more faith in the setup.

L

 

[GoneDiving]

I did the same thing. Be prepared for several generation of unused wiring and equipment that were too difficult to remove as newer equipment was added over the years.

I took the opportunity to change the electrical system from a generator based to solar/battery based and to reroute wiring from hidden behind panels and ceilings to accessible cable trays.

Beware of scope growth. As you said, while everything is open and accessible it's easy to add an endless number of new projects.

Good luck

 

[mvweebles]

Are you replacing the panel? If so, with what? My rewiring is just being finished up. I had a custom panel built with a back-plane to cleanup the install. Wasn't cheap, but the project is deceptively expensive.

Pictures please.....

Peter

 

[Unclematt]

These are pics of the custom panels my electrician made during the rewire. [/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

 

[backinblue]

Looks like a nice job Matt. Money well-spent in my opinion, some of it will return to you in resale value.

 

[Unclematt]

You can add this to the list as well. I had the boat in a heated tent at my house last winter. I literally replaced almost everything. I also added lots of extra stuff. With the Covid lockdown I worked on it whenever I had a free minute.

 

[Comodave]

On our last boat I found some #8 cable run up to the flybridge. When I traced it back it was wired directly into the batteries without any overcurrent protection or any switch. Just sitting there hot and bare wires under the flybridge brow. Not very good. I took out literally hundreds of feet of disconnected and unused wiring.

 

[Iggy]

Uncle, a great job. My boat is 21 years old now. The wiring is not too bad, its more the stuff thats been added. But I pulled out about 150' for dead wire and some I just can't reach. Some stuff on the fly bridge is starting to age from being more exposed to the weather. But its a big job to do completely. So taking it in pieces.

The last owner put a Fusion system in, spent some good money on it. BUT, mounted an amp in the flybridge to power the 2 flybridge speakers. I had the boat for a month and the amp stopped working. Corrosion!! I mounted the new amp in the wheelhouse. It was too easy to do since they were only a few feet apart. I just don't understand what some people do??

I would love to rewire

 

[Mako]

@Uncle, nice helm station. Are you planning on raising the compass up on a wood block?

 

[socalrider]

You can add this to the list as well. I had the boat in a heated tent at my house last winter. I literally replaced almost everything. I also added lots of extra stuff. With the Covid lockdown I worked on it whenever I had a free minute.

That looks amazing - fantastic work!

I've re-wired most of my '79 CHB 41. My one suggestion is to think carefully to avoid starting too many projects at once. Not sure what your situation is but a lot of people seem to get over-excited, tear into their boats, then get overwhelmed and the boat never gets back to working order.

I've been doing things more piecemeal & have been able to enjoy using the boat while I work through it. Even so I sometimes get overwhelmed. That said, clearly some people (@Unclematt) have the discipline to "do it once & do it right", so if that's you, go for it! Please keep us posted!

 

[Unclematt]

The compass is easily seen while standing. The boat is just about complete and ready to go. All I have left is minor details and cosmetics which I will do this spring.

 

[janice142]

A couple ideas as you do this project.

1. Run two chase lines as you pull wires through bulkheads. That way you will be able to feed in in both directions, and have a spare if something goes kafluey. I used a cut hose to protect wires from sharp fiberglass edges when feeding through bulkheads

2. Old life jacket webbing , along with a fender washer and screw will make excellent holders for those heavy cables. Not the best picture... was replacing 32 volt battery banks and noticed old plastic wire straps were failing. Frankly the soft edges of webbing are nicer to deal with.

I used the webbing to hold the heavy cables while moving stuff around. Eventually everything was shortened and secured properly. This made my life easier in the interim, so I mention it here in case you might be dealing with similar...

I've added labels at ends of wires as what is apparent today won't be in ten years. Rather than use wire ties, instead I have opted for 1/8" (2.5mm) braided nylon with tags (written with permanent marker). My skin is thinning and wire ties have sharp bits. Plus the braid is easy to untie then reknot.

Label everything. When I drew the schematic for a nearby boat I did a great job saying slot four was this, slot five that. I should have added colors to my notes.

I should have run large cables fore and aft so I could tap in closer to where power is needed on Seaweed. Every bit of 12v comes from my panel. That was dumb. It would have been great to run an 8 or 4 gauge wire forward, then aft on both port and starboard.

Though originally I had a 12v boat, of late so much can be USB powered (5v) that I wish I'd made more USB ports. Still as progress continues, I wonder how much effort I should put into USB as wireless charging and Bluetooth are becoming more prevalent.

Good luck, and congratulationson the project. This is a great way to find issues beforethey become major problems.

 

[C lectric]

I am not rewiring but have a done lot over the years.
I only use the black tyraps and always good quality ones. The black will outlast the standard whites by decades.

Lots of ???? stuff out there. Sure they are cheaper. You don't have to go for just" Tyraps " by brand as there are several good mfgrs who offer decent quality without the high end.

The ends can be cut properly with trimming cutters with the cutting edge right to the back of the blade and a rounded back or flush back. THat way there is no cutting end left to catch your hand or arm. Of course some practice is required to do it right but it is not hard.
THese are bigger than I use although have them, Mine tyrap clippers are about 5" long, actually electronic clippers.

Klein offers suitable ones.


https://www.amazon.ca/Diagonal-Cutt...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[psneeld]

Melting zip tie end works great but is an extra step.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I've found a couple of things that I prefer over the standard zip ties. One is generally called "rabbit ears," although I can't find them on the net right now. They work sort of like a wire tie on a loaf of bread, but made of plastic (and look vaguely like a rabbit's head with little balls on the tips of the ears). It only require one twist to stay fastened. Easily control three or four wires. Unlike zip ties, quick and easy to remove/reuse and make future changes.

Another thing is spiral wire wrap. Like the picture shows, you can easily take out one or two wires while the rest of the bundle goes on. I don't use the spiral wrap for any great distance. Instead of mummifying the entire length, I use just enough to keep the bundle under control and the departing wires separated. The less you use, the less you need to mess with for a modification. The problem with spiral wire wrap is finding the "good stuff," i.e., heavy enough and the right size to hold a bundle.

Self-adhesive wire mounts use zip ties, but can be really convenient. You need a clean surface (acetone) and it helps to warm the surface with a heat gun and then let is sit for awhile before attaching the wire(s). Good for areas that you can't get to with a screw-down mounting point.

Once you are done, shoot the through bulkhead holes with a foam gun to stop air and sound from going through the penetrations. Future modifications will require yanking out the foam, but not difficult.

One of the things I don't see mentioned much with boats is "conduit fill." I know that electrical codes for buildings limits the number of conductors in a conduit, but I haven't seen it for 12V boating. It might be convenient to run starter cables or windlass cables through a conduit shared by other electrical items. If not allowed to "breath," the cables are much more likely to overheat. The same is true to a lesser degree with a tightly wrapped bundle of small 12V wires.

 

[stubones99]

Melting zip tie end works great but is an extra step.

Toe Nail snippers trim off the ends of Zip ties and don't leave a sharp edge. You won't get cut or get wiring insulation faults caused by sharp zip tie ends...

 

[UrsusMaritimus]

When it comes to cable management my preference is to use Velcro cable ties. There’s a variety of products out there to work with the system, and it’s easy to add wires or make changes down the road. It also has the added benefit of not pinching the wires like the wraps do.

 

[Nick F]

I like these "open slot" wiring ducts.

 

[squimmy27]

You can add this to the list as well. I had the boat in a heated tent at my house last winter. I literally replaced almost everything. I also added lots of extra stuff. With the Covid lockdown I worked on it whenever I had a free minute. View attachment 125734

I have the 'vintage' 1979 GB-wannabee 42' Europa. My electrician has finished the battery bank 8D>AGM project and replaced all the old electronics; during which we've developed an extensive list of issues that leads to a full boat AC/DC rewiring project, lots of PO junk around, safety issues. We'll be designing through the summer, including the pilot house and helm gauge panels and have penciled in October for the run (so I can enjoy the cruising system). Keep us updated...I like the Uncle's helm design.

 

[Skip Sunnell]

I have food that the adage "electronics are obsolete the day you purchase" is quite true. I also own a 43 CHB trawler that has had the entire engine room rebuilt, and for the most part, the electronic gear, water pumps and heaters replaced. Even with that, I have "obsolete wiring" in the wire trunks leading to the fly bridge and salon. The engine room, however, is a dream to be in albeit, more headroom and space behind the starboard engine would certainly be nice.

Perhaps, obsolete equipment to you remove and replace can be offered to a marine mechanics shop you use for work you don't do for yourself as a goodwill gesture? Most people who work on their boats won't consider used equipment because it's not that easy to pull/test/replace and then find a short time later a failure occurs. I applaud your courage in the rewire! One of the main reasons I purchased Shantina was the clean and compact way the engine room electronics and wiring were installed, and the documentation/labelling made simple.

 

[Refill]

Electrical Upgrading

Hi There,
You got yourself a good challenge. Congratulations.
I have a 1978 Roughwater 41 that I'm also in the process of upgrading. My wife and I live on on it, so I can only do small, strategic sections at a time without disabling the electrical system for any length of time.
It looks like you have a Victron Energy Multi Plus for an inverter /charger. I just installed my 12/3000/50 with the wiring about half done. i'm also using Visio to create my wiring diagrams. It would be interesting to see what you are coming up with for your boat and if you are interested, I would be happy to share.
Good luck.
Reto