Raytheon radar repair

[MVCalypso]

Hi all,
I think I'm looking for a unicorn - an outfit or tech that still does actual, component level, electronics diagnosis and repair of marine electronics...

My radar has developed a head display problem (a late '80s vintage Raytheon R20 radar). I realize Raytheon no longer has board level components available.

OK, perhaps, I'm just getting old and feeling crotchety today, but I'd rather not (yet?) hear "just buy a new radar". Replacement might be where this ends up, but before that point I want to try to fix the unit I have. There are multiple reasons (that make sense to me at least) for this desire. Perhaps I'm a dinosaur, my folks grew up during the depression and I learned the "fix it" attitude.

I know that new radars have lost of fun bells & whistles, but the R20 does everything I need for running around SF bay and the Calif Delta. A cursory glance says new Radars appear to be in the $4k range + all the install hassles (and/or labor costs for that). Ouch.

I started messing with electronics in high school (no need to ask when that was - I'll just say that tubes were common then). I fixed many a tube TV set in those days.
Re the radar - I suspect the problem is a failed electrolytic cap in the CRT vertical drive circuity. See pic.

Parts wise, I suspect this repair is < $10 (I'd have said $1.00, but I suspect caps are more these days). I'll happily pay for a tech unicorn's expertise.

The kicker is that one really needs schematics to work from.... Reverse engineering the circuity is not a reasonable prerequisite for me.
Finding an old-timer experienced tech that knows the units would be a huge win.
So....
Anyone have a lead on schematics or a service manual for a Raytheon R20?
Does anyone know an outfit that still does real electronics bench repair?
Any location in the US is prob OK by me, shipping is no big deal.

 

[gettaway]

Ok - I'll answer with what you don't want to hear, we use Radar on our boats as a navigational tool when we have low or no visibility and if it has the ability- to set range markers and alarms to alert us when something is reflected within the range rings. I had a similar radar on a CHB 34 trawler when I was younger, I sold the boat and bought a newer boat with a better, newer Radar, it was night and day as far as accuracy, detail and ease of use. I now have a Carver 530 Voyager pilothouse with a new Simrad Radar/ chart plotter. it is touchscreen display, has a second display at the PH control. the level of detail and the ease of use with touchscreen is amazing. I too am one to tinker and make old things work again, but I would not go back to the antiquated technology of potentially lifesaving equipment.
Have you tried looking on Ebay for a newer Radar system? I I bought a Raymarine Radar GPS Chart plotter with a 12" Multifunction Display on Ebay with radome, GPS antenna and all of the wiring for about $1500.00, worked perfectly and was easy to install.
Good luck!

 

[drewc]

Hi, I see you are a fellow Bay Area boater. If you are still interested, I have an old but working R20 head unit that I replaced a few years ago... you're welcome to it. I also have the manual which contains a fold out schematic which you can also have. I am berthed on E-dock at Schoonmaker Point Marina in Sausalito if you'd like to drop by sometime.

 

[MVCalypso]

Hi, I see you are a fellow Bay Area boater. If you are still interested, I have an old but working R20 head unit that I replaced a few years ago... you're welcome to it. I also have the manual which contains a fold out schematic which you can also have. I am berthed on E-dock at Schoonmaker Point Marina in Sausalito if you'd like to drop by sometime.

Hi,
That's a very generous offer! I'd love to take you up on it. I'll shoot you a PM (or whatever they are called now with the new forum - "conversation"? with contact info. ;-)
Many thanks in advance!

 

[MVCalypso]

Ok - I'll answer with what you don't want to hear, we use Radar on our boats as a navigational tool when we have low or no visibility and if it has the ability- to set range markers and alarms to alert us when something is reflected within the range rings. I had a similar radar on a CHB 34 trawler when I was younger, I sold the boat and bought a newer boat with a better, newer Radar, it was night and day as far as accuracy, detail and ease of use. I now have a Carver 530 Voyager pilothouse with a new Simrad Radar/ chart plotter. it is touchscreen display, has a second display at the PH control. the level of detail and the ease of use with touchscreen is amazing. I too am one to tinker and make old things work again, but I would not go back to the antiquated technology of potentially lifesaving equipment.
Have you tried looking on Ebay for a newer Radar system? I I bought a Raymarine Radar GPS Chart plotter with a 12" Multifunction Display on Ebay with radome, GPS antenna and all of the wiring for about $1500.00, worked perfectly and was easy to install.
Good luck!

He he, I knew someone would give the new radar pitch ;-)
No problem, I actually really like new toys, but in this case the limiting factors are not only the $ involved, but there are physical space limitations (all the newer radars have gone to landscape panels and they won't fit where the current set is). I fear that might temp me to succumb to "well, as long as I'm doing the radar...". Next thing I know, I'd have a major electronics refit project on my hands. As I'm already knee deep in several other projects (boat & homes), I feel I need to not start another one right now.
I do appreciate the thought though...

 

[boomerang]

Dumb question, but have you opened the case? I'm sure there are horizontal , vertical, brightness & focus pots on the video board, just like any CRT display would have.

 

[MVCalypso]

Dumb question, but have you opened the case? I'm sure there are horizontal , vertical, brightness & focus pots on the video board, just like any CRT display would have.

I did open it & looked to see if there were any obvious burnt components - nothing visually obvious. I found an article online by a fellow in Fla that repairs older marine electronics. I emailed him, but learned yesterday that he's closed his business :-( Thus my inquiry re other repair leads.

For now, I've held off on any live troubleshooting with the case open as I'd need to rig up a 12v supply on a work bench etc. & I'll have to find things like my high voltage probes if I go that route.

 

[MVCalypso]

Hi, I see you are a fellow Bay Area boater. If you are still interested, I have an old but working R20 head unit that I replaced a few years ago... you're welcome to it. I also have the manual which contains a fold out schematic which you can also have. I am berthed on E-dock at Schoonmaker Point Marina in Sausalito if you'd like to drop by sometime.

Sent you a Conversation / PM

 

[MVCalypso]

Hi, I see you are a fellow Bay Area boater. If you are still interested, I have an old but working R20 head unit that I replaced a few years ago... you're welcome to it. I also have the manual which contains a fold out schematic which you can also have. I am berthed on E-dock at Schoonmaker Point Marina in Sausalito if you'd like to drop by sometime.

Hi, I sent you a pm/conversation early in the week with my contact info. I've not done that since the forum changes & I'm not sure if you got it or not - so I thought I'd drop a note here as a backup.

 

[Ithaka7]

The R20 is difficult. However, the Pathfinder (RL70) is a direct replacement, vertical display and a much better unit with a similar look and feel. You can get a used display for $200 and a radome for $250 from eBay. You can then reuse the cable (feel free to splice it if you must). This is by far the fastest and cheapest solution to your dilemma.

 

[tiltrider1]

I am very mixed on this subject. The RL system was originally developed for the Navy and as a stand alone Radar had excellent target acquisition.

Since Radar’s primary mission is to enhance visibility during times of impaired visibility I fear people out their with poor performing equipment speeding along blind thinking they can see everything.

On the other hand the real improvements in Radar are not with target acquisition but with data processing.

I get nervous when people are using 30 year old equipment but I can’t be sure that it’s an issue.

 

[Malcolm Cook]

Hi all,
I think I'm looking for a unicorn - an outfit or tech that still does actual, component level, electronics diagnosis and repair of marine electronics...

My radar has developed a head display problem (a late '80s vintage Raytheon R20 radar). I realize Raytheon no longer has board level components available.

OK, perhaps, I'm just getting old and feeling crotchety today, but I'd rather not (yet?) hear "just buy a new radar". Replacement might be where this ends up, but before that point I want to try to fix the unit I have. There are multiple reasons (that make sense to me at least) for this desire. Perhaps I'm a dinosaur, my folks grew up during the depression and I learned the "fix it" attitude.

I know that new radars have lost of fun bells & whistles, but the R20 does everything I need for running around SF bay and the Calif Delta. A cursory glance says new Radars appear to be in the $4k range + all the install hassles (and/or labor costs for that). Ouch.

I started messing with electronics in high school (no need to ask when that was - I'll just say that tubes were common then). I fixed many a tube TV set in those days.
Re the radar - I suspect the problem is a failed electrolytic cap in the CRT vertical drive circuity. See pic.

Parts wise, I suspect this repair is < $10 (I'd have said $1.00, but I suspect caps are more these days). I'll happily pay for a tech unicorn's expertise.

The kicker is that one really needs schematics to work from.... Reverse engineering the circuity is not a reasonable prerequisite for me.
Finding an old-timer experienced tech that knows the units would be a huge win.
So....
Anyone have a lead on schematics or a service manual for a Raytheon R20?
Does anyone know an outfit that still does real electronics bench repair?
Any location in the US is prob OK by me, shipping is no big deal.

It won't hurt to replace the suspect cap. As it is electrolytic, I am sure your aware of the importance of correctly connecting the terminals.

 

[MVCalypso]

The R20 is difficult. However, the Pathfinder (RL70) is a direct replacement, vertical display and a much better unit with a similar look and feel. You can get a used display for $200 and a radome for $250 from eBay. You can then reuse the cable (feel free to splice it if you must). This is by far the fastest and cheapest solution to your dilemma.

Thanks for the pointer to the RL70. I'll check that out.

 

[MVCalypso]

I am very mixed on this subject. The RL system was originally developed for the Navy and as a stand alone Radar had excellent target acquisition.

Since Radar’s primary mission is to enhance visibility during times of impaired visibility I fear people out their with poor performing equipment speeding along blind thinking they can see everything.

On the other hand the real improvements in Radar are not with target acquisition but with data processing.

I get nervous when people are using 30 year old equipment but I can’t be sure that it’s an issue.

Hi, you can stop worrying (at least about me) - I'm not in the habit of "...speeding along blind thinking they can see everything." & I'm aware of the limits of nav equipment.

Learned that lesson in the early '80s when all I had was a compass & paper chart on a catalina 27... left Newport Beach one evening to go to Catalina and the island didn't show up when it should have. Reversed course and headed back - I got back to a significant offset from my start point, then worked my way back into the harbor. Investigation revealed that the compass was sticking on it's bearing... repaired it (and also bought a LORAN shortly thereafter). Ever since, I like having more than one nav approach. It's comforting when the tools all agree.

I tend to have everything in use (incl the radar, well until it developed this problem) whenever I'm running the boat. I enjoy navigating and tend to use all my tools/toys even in clear Wx - as I find it good practice for when the gadgets all go dark (which has happened once in many years).

Heck, I'm probably a fossil as I also keep paper charts out - though I have stopped actrively plotting my course/progress on paper (distracts from looking out & around the boat).
But I like a paper chart's lack of need for power ;-) I'm also not a fan of the diappearence of paper charts - but that's a different rant.

My current radar problem does not disable use of the vessel. I'm out enjoying the boat during the summer. While a new radar would be nice, $ are $, and there are things higher up on the list of uses for boat bucks. I don't share the idea that age means a device needs to be replaced (Or I could be in trouble myself). IMHO, If a tool does what's needed, it's a good tool. Fixing the radar seems possible, I just haven't had time to get to that yet. While I didn't manage to connect with Drewc, his post got me thinking and I found a used head on Ebay. I'll see how that works out.

 

[MVCalypso]

It won't hurt to replace the suspect cap. As it is electrolytic, I am sure your aware of the importance of correctly connecting the terminals.

Yep, not an issue. EE by profession & I learned in high school what happens when you get it wrong ;-)