Over powering insurance question

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RT Firefly

RT Firefly

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Oct 21, 2007
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Greetings,
We may have found a 27' "sport catamaran" replacement for our trawler. One potential "snag" is the boat is factory rated for 450HP max. (2 X 225HP). It has twin 250HP Suzuki outboards (2019 era)



What is the insurance industries stance on claim refusal on such an overpowered vessel?


Given the fact most, if not all, "modern" outboards are software controlled I inquired of a local Suzuki dealer as to the feasibility of de-tuning the motors to 225HP each. His response was they would NOT undertake such a task and furthermore any HP ratings only applied to vessels under 21' (by law). Hmmmmm.....


He further stated I would have NO problems if I dealt with a marine insurance company rather than the run of the mill types like Geiko. More hmmmm....


Comments, please. Thanks
 
You may be able to HP limit it yourself. I have a Suzuki 15 HP on a 13' aluminum dinghy. The engine is electronically injected and controlled by a computer. The computer has an RPM limiter. There is a slight reving and slowing when you try to exceed the maximum RPM. I never changed the propeller pitch to get more speed out of it.

My guess is that you could reduce the propeller picture by an inch or two to reduce the HP at maximum RPM.

Ted
 
If powered above the hp rating placard on the boat, in many places you can be cited by law enforcement. If no placard due size, the following article describes methods the feds can use to determine. However, I doubt it would ever come up except in case of an accident.

At that point it might just be a negligent boating set of issues, iverpowered just bekng one of them.

https://www.formulaboats.com/blog/m...al Regulations,to the federal government, yes

Federal Regulations
Is it illegal to overpower a boat? According to the federal government, yes. .........

The good news is, these rules are in place for boat manufacturers, so assuming your boat’s manufacturer is following the federal regulations, you can consider the maximum horsepower capacity listed on your boat meets the federal regulation for its maximum horsepower.
 
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Greetings,
Mr. ps. Perfect! Thanks for that. I asked about de-tuning possibilities from Suzuki and just received this response:


RE: 250 De-Tune

Suzuki currently does not offer any sort of upgrades or kits to “de-tune” any of our engines.


I guess THAT boat is off the "to buy" list.



Ah well....sigh. Thanks again.
 
This doesn't make sense. I have a friend builds up to 2000hp engines for the "go fast" offshore crowd. Some of those 50fters have 3 of these monsters and will go well over 150mph. No one has ever said that is illegal. Now insurance on them is another issue, but never heard of govt saying they overpowered and illegal.
 
Greetings,
Mr. CD. In the article Mr. ps posted it states: "Is it illegal to overpower a boat? In some cases, yes.". In some cases suggests there ARE exceptions. Perhaps "go fast" boats are taking advantage to these exceptions?


I'm not going to start looking for exceptions. The basic premise is don't exceed the capacity plates or manufacturers recommendations. I'm a KISS kind of guy. (Keep It Simple Sailor).


iu
 
Cold Duck said:
This doesn't make sense. I have a friend builds up to 2000hp engines for the "go fast" offshore crowd. Some of those 50fters have 3 of these monsters and will go well over 150mph. No one has ever said that is illegal. Now insurance on them is another issue, but never heard of govt saying they overpowered and illegal.
Click to expand...

If you read correctly there are 2 ways to determine over powering.

It is in the CFRs too

Maybe that manufacturer CAN certify for that much HP.

I will bet you dont know a lot of regs, hardly any of us do. That's why I usually research before I post.
 
psneeld said:
If you read correctly there are 2 ways to determine over powering.

It is in the CFRs too

Maybe that manufacturer CAN certify for that much HP.

I will bet you dont know a lot of regs, hardly any of us do. That's why I usually research before I post.
Click to expand...

Absolutely don't know all the regs. Suspect a dingy with a placard for max 15hp comes from some reg. Smaller boats are placarded for load and hp for sure. But I've seen patio boats with 2 400hp Mercs on the back. Why anyone would want to do 80mph in a patio boat is beyond me, but different strokes.
 
Why would anyone want to do 150mph in a go fast?

At those speeds, death is right around the corner.

Well.... I guess 80 also in just about any boat NOT designed to crash.

Much of the HP limiting is about stability and handling...less so about pure speed.
 
Do a search of “boat idiots” on utube. There are a lot of them on there.
 
After a lifetime of personal time and 2 professions on or over the water in close proximity to boaters... I really don't need youtube to enlighten me. :socool:
 
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I don’t watch it to become enlightened but to be amused.
 
Greetings,
Mr. C. While one may be amused at idiot boaters those same boaters may be the next vessel you encounter. THAT'S a scary thought IMO.


As an aside...Seems the thing to do nowadays is to go to the "sandbar". Hmm..Hanging out and drinking, possibly to excess, with 50+ of my closest friends and wading around in a urinal is not MY idea of a "fun time".
 
Maybe it is amusing to me because I live and boat in Michigan and the majority of the idiot boater videos are from Florida…
 
I love watching "bonehead boaters", Miami boat ramps, credit card captain and other idiot boater videos on you tube just before I drift off to sleep.

Makes my little dock bumps much more forgivable.

Hey, if your boat don't have any dings on it you haven't been out enough - :)
 
In my experience, plenty of bad boaters everywhere, just like auto drivers.

As they say, every organization or community has there share of all types.

Maybe we have some right here in out group.... see a lot of blooper threads from time to time.:D
 
psneeld said:
Why would anyone want to do 150mph in a go fast?

At those speeds, death is right around the corner.

Well.... I guess 80 also in just about any boat NOT designed to crash.

Much of the HP limiting is about stability and handling...less so about pure speed.
Click to expand...

I guess they would say why would anyone want to boat at 5kts? I've done both, well not 150, but water skied at 80. Much younger then. If done safely, with right equipment, it's doable. Seen boaters at 5kts without proper skills be as dangerous as anything else. Just because you don't (that"s a generic) want to do a particular boating doesn't mean that many others can and do do it safely. Like I said, different strokes. I can be as comfortable doing 100kts in proper environment or get just as much pleasure at 3 kts in a small sailing skiff. My plan is to die in my sleep, and have my vessel put on autopilot, out the Golden Gate headed to Hawaii and never get there :dance:
 
Cold Duck said:
I guess they would say why would anyone want to boat at 5kts? I've done both, well not 150, but water skied at 80. Much younger then. If done safely, with right equipment, it's doable. Seen boaters at 5kts without proper skills be as dangerous as anything else. Just because you don't (that"s a generic) want to do a particular boating doesn't mean that many others can and do do it safely. Like I said, different strokes. I can be as comfortable doing 100kts in proper environment or get just as much pleasure at 3 kts in a small sailing skiff. My plan is to die in my sleep, and have my vessel put on autopilot, out the Golden Gate headed to Hawaii and never get there :dance:
Click to expand...

Actually the "Viking Funeral" is tongue and cheek. For real will spread half ashes in the Sac Delta and half off Kona with my little fish buddies. Boating since 1958 I can't imagine being anywhere else.
 
One big problem I have encountered with too large engines (even on boats that ARE rated for the HP) is that the newer 4 strokes are heavier than the older 2 strokes and some power with twins versus a lightr single.

Because of the weight, the transom scuppers are so low and take on water... that the boats sink in their slips for all sorts of reasons.
 
Greetings,
Mr. E. Indeed that is ONE solution but not my style. In Ontario, Canada there is a requirement that all vessels powered by 10HP or more be licenced.

It was not unheard of, in the past, for some to buy a 9.9HP engine and replace the carb' with one from a 15HP (the carb' being the only difference in HP on certain models). Voila. 15HP with 9.9HP decals.
 
Seller="Come back tomorrow it'll have 225's on it."

Detuning on the Kenai river is pretty common. Max hp is 35, many people "detune" 50's.
 
Greetings,
Mr. S. Please re-read my post (#23 first line after salutation). NOT my style.


As circumstances would have it a new Facebook friend inquired about the vessel in question (he has the same make and model) who told me it was overpowered and that I might want to check the insurance situation. I WAS aware that there might be potential problems in that regard but only from a Canadian perspective. I wanted to clarify the US regulations. That is the reason for me asking the TF collective to opine.



I have received an accurate answer with an official reference. I will pass on that boat.


I've said several times: 97% of the fun is looking for a boat and the other 98% is using a boat.


iu
 
Back to the OP’s Question

Speaking as an old, retired insurance guy… Remember that the purchase of insurance is really the purchase of a promise. If you provide the insurer with an accurate representation of the risk, they can determine if they are prepared to accept it, and if so, at what price. If that all happens, and you pay the premium, you have their promise to pay your claim. However, if their acceptance of the risk was based upon a faulty representation, they won’t exactly feel obligated to pay your claim.
You can play around all you want with decals and carbs, but don’t be shocked if you find yourself with a denied claim.
Long winded way of suggesting that the OP simply presents the details to their insurer.
After all, they’ll tell you if it’s a problem… either now or after a loss.
 
Should be same size cowling, buy a couple 225 hp cowlings and tell them it’s 225s. None the wiser. Detuned for cheap. No insurance company will ever hook up a diagnostics computer to check so don’t tell them.
 
Mr RT. I understand your position. I don't believe that anyone has pointed out that the 225 and 250 engines are almost identical: same block, same weight, but usually a slightly different valve timing at the very high end, and perhaps some ECU and injector programing difference.
 
Greetings,
Mr. t. I thought of de-tuning from 250HP to 225HP and assumed the "innards" were mostly the same and it might simply be a reprogramming of the ECU or a software change BUT Suzuki advised me that they had no kits, procedures or mechanisms to do so.


The subject is moot at this point as we've seen the boat in person and it is officially off "the list" for various reasons. I WILL keep HP discrepancies in mind while looking for "THE" boat.


As to decal or carb' changes, I say AGAIN, not my style. Thanks.
 
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