Old diesel fuel

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NWpilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2020
Messages
72
Vessel Name
Maiden Heaven
Vessel Make
84 Bayliner 3870
I have a 30' Tollycraft with twin Volvo diesels and unfortunately it has been sitting in the marina for 10 months without being run. Being new to diesels I have no idea if the fuel has gone bad or how to determine if it is bad.
Is there a way to determine if its bad or should I just pump it out.
 
I have a 30' Tollycraft with twin Volvo diesels and unfortunately it has been sitting in the marina for 10 months without being run. Being new to diesels I have no idea if the fuel has gone bad or how to determine if it is bad.
Is there a way to determine if its bad or should I just pump it out.

There is really no reason to believe that 10 month old diesel fuel stored in a moderate climate is bad. It certainly could be bad, but it is pretty unlikely to be bad. My biggest concern would be that the o-ring on the fill went bad and it got water in it, not normal aging.

When it was me, I did what Delta says and ran it. Specifically...

-- Clean the primary filter/separator.
-- Idle at the slip for a bit and make sure everything seems okay
-- Advance the throttle to a high idle and let it run for a while and make sure the RPMs stayed stable. Surging is a sign of dirty filters.
-- Advance the throttle again to something more aggressive for a short bit, making sure that the RPMs stayed stable
-- Advance the throttle again to something as high as comfortable for a shorter bit and, again, make sure RPMs stayed stable.
-- Check the primary again for slime and water.
-- Make sure a helm-capable helper is aboard and take it out, again, keeping an eye that the RPMs stay stable and back off on the throttle if there is any surging or studdering.

If at any point I noticed surging RPMS, I'd clean the primary and replace the 2ndary.

If, at any point, any more than very minimal water showed up in the primary, I'd want to pump it out from the bottom of the tank rather than running it through and draining it out. Engines shutting down when the shut-off ball floats up are no fun. A simple, cheap, diesel-rated transfer pump from an auto parts store powered from the battery via alligator clips and several feet of hose and a bucket work fine.

If I noticed filter soiling of debris falling out, I'd clean the primary and change filter media more often, as often as needed and then some. If it were really bad, I'd consider using a biocide and then polishing the fuel (which, if done by a service, is as expensive as buying new, but easier than dealing with the old).

If the engine were somehow not performing to expectation, but not surging, e.g. low power, smoking, etc, I'd add a cetol-boosting, cleaning, cure-all diesel additive to the recommended ratio. If that didn't fix it, I'd consider pulling the injectors and having them pop-tested (usually free) by a rebuilder, listening for valve timing or checking/setting it with feelers, etc.

My very last resort would be to get rid of the fuel. And, if I did that, I would certainly not pay for its disposal. Plenty of folks from recreational marina neighbors to the charter folks, would gladly take it and use it, even if only diluted. I wouldn't have to ask twice, given that it is ~$6/gallon these days.


If it was me today, I'd do the same thing, but I'd pump some out from the bottom to check for water and slime build up 1st. It is easy to do and can only solve problems. If I found it, I'd just pump it out until I was getting stuff that visually looked good. The water and goop would probably not be too much. Less than a five gallon bucket. I'd guess. And, if more, well buckets are easy to come by. I'd have no problem pumping tons of water out myself. If I started to get a ton of slime, I'd probably get a professional to polish it or buy an appropriate filter and pump and do the same myself.

But, again, other than water leaking in via the o-ring or something, most diesel fuel should be good for a year or even more in a moderate environment. Condensation can add some moisture, but not really that much that fast.
 
Wow, that was good!

Sorry about my one liner, but it's the truth. I bought my boat from a guy who put a whole 40 hours on the motors in 2 years. The same broker sold it twice. The guy admitted to being afraid of it.

So, don't be like him, go forth and have fun! Start those engines. You know I didn't know how to start the engines until my first training session. If you need training, go get trained.
 
If I was in Vancouver I would advise you to dump it, into my tanks:). It should be fine.
 
I'll take it
Ours happily ran on 10 YEAR old diesel when we got her.
 
After a planned 6 months on-the-hard (tanks full) turned into 22 months due to the pandemic, we had absolutely no problem using up our old diesel fuel. I had the same concern as you and came to TF for advice about this on an earlier thread. The only thing I did that was different than usual was to have 4 spare primary filter cartridges with me instead of my usual two -- just in case. In the end, I didn't have to make any extra fuel filter changes. So, like others have said here, I would just go out and use it. Enjoy!
 
The one thing you should be afraid of is.........algae. The question is of course: 'do you have algae in your tank'.

I bought my boat last October, tanks were perhaps 1/3 full, which meant more than enough opportunity for the moisture in the air (in the tanks) to condensate, drop below the diesel and start the growth of algae.

The problem however is that you are not going to find out if you algae unless that tank is well shaken and stirred, which means you need to be in bad weather and that is exactly the moment you don't want to find out you have algae in the tank.

Luckily for me the former owner had put diesel protection in the tanks, so I did not have any algae, but I did not know that since the former owner had died. So what I did is that I bought a pump, attached some 5 meter hoses and a filter to it and basically transferred all the fuel from one tank to the other via this external filter. I did not want to use the standard fuel filter, since they are much more difficult to clean.

In all I transferred the fuel twice and that insured that I got all the dirt out.



The problem with algae in your tank is that it clogs up the filters, since it floats, and it is a hell of a lot of work to clean the filters. So my advice would be to filter all the fuel now, make sure you have no algae and always add the diesel protective when you are fueling. It can really save your life

And as for the age of the diesel ? Don't worry, diesel is not gasoline, nothing is going to happen to it. It burns just as good when it is 1 year old as when it is new. The only important part is water and algae.
 
The one thing you should be afraid of is.........algae. The question is of course: 'do you have algae in your tank'.

I bought my boat last October, tanks were perhaps 1/3 full, which meant more than enough opportunity for the moisture in the air (in the tanks) to condensate, drop below the diesel and start the growth of algae.

The problem however is that you are not going to find out if you algae unless that tank is well shaken and stirred, which means you need to be in bad weather and that is exactly the moment you don't want to find out you have algae in the tank.

Yeah, well that's one theory

I've said it here before

We bought our boat in a sub tropical "Florida" climate with 3000 litres in 7000 litre tanks that was 10 years old.
No biocide used by previous owner
Fuel was very discoloured

Took a sample from the crud sump on tanks and poured the sample back in - no lumps

Had some rough weather, rolled her a lot and ran her for several months before changing the filters that were in when we got her and they were spotless.

Five years later and still running that same filter I put in
Zero vacuum on gauge
Zero crud in crud sump
Have pulled the filters and put them back in several times
No biocide used.

Must have magic tanks or magic diesel.
Or maybe it's the fillers in the cabin sides - not in the deck where compromised O rings let in water.
 
I have a 30' Tollycraft with twin Volvo diesels and unfortunately it has been sitting in the marina for 10 months without being run. Being new to diesels I have no idea if the fuel has gone bad or how to determine if it is bad.
Is there a way to determine if its bad or should I just pump it out.

I am currently running 20 year old Diesel.
I did treat it and filter it 100% but it runs well.
unlike Gas with ethanol diesel does not go bad quickly.
It can get contaminated with algae but even that fuel is good.
If you have an algae problem your filters will clog.
It's likely worth treating it with Biocide and run it.
a spare filter or two on hand is a good plan.
 
@ Simi60


The reason you did not have water in your fuel is quite simple. Warm air can contain more moisture than cold air. So when you put the boat away at the end of the season with, let's say, half a tank (and thus half air) the air contains a certain amount of moisture at that temperature. Usually that will be the standard air humidity.

When winter arrives the water temperature goes down, also in the tank and the air in the tank will cool down, thus making it possible to reach the dew point. At the dew point the moisture in the air will start to condensate and that will bring water into your tanks.

The mistake that many people make is that they think it depends on the temperature of the air, but that is not the case. The boat is lying in the water and the temperature in the tanks is 99 % the result of the temp of the water. So if your boat is in Florida and you have a few evenings with cold air..........that is not going to significantly change the water temp and thus not the condensation in your tanks.

For me it is a different story. Summertime water temp is around 95 degrees, but wintertime can be around 50 degrees. That is a 45 degree difference and that will cause condensation of the air in the tanks.


Hope that explains it a bit.
 
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@ Simi60


The reason you did not have water in your fuel is quite simple. Warm air can contain more moisture than cold air. So when you put the boat away at the end of the season with, let's say, half a tank (and thus half air) the air contains a certain amount of moisture at that temperature. Usually that will be the standard air humidity.

When winter arrives the water temperature goes down, also in the tank and the air in the tank will cool down, thus making it possible to reach the dew point. At the dew point the moisture in the air will start to condensate and that will bring water into your tanks.

The mistake that many people make is that they think it depends on the temperature of the air, but that is not the case. The boat is lying in the water and the temperature in the tanks is 99 % the result of the temp of the water. So if your boat is in Florida and you have a few evenings with cold air..........that is not going to significantly change the water temp and thus not the condensation in your tanks.

For me it is a different story. Summertime water temp is around 95 degrees, but wintertime can be around 50 degrees. That is a 45 degree difference and that will cause condensation of the air in the tanks.


Hope that explains it a bit.

Simi said it simply..."it one theory".

Unless specifics are known/ measured....it's just one theory. Sure you can base a theory with science...but again 2 boats sitting side by side can have 2 different results as the conditions can be different in many of the critical measurements.
 
Diesel floats on water. Most growth occurs at the interface. If your boat has a tap at the bottom (Even a sight guage may serve if tank isn’t massive) you can drain slowly to that interface. Then drain that layer after disposing the water you’ve collected initially. That layer can be polished if you want. Collect enough to feel happy you’re getting just diesel. This can be done dockside and having no prior agitation of the tank(s) is helpful.
Of interest if there’s no biocide and then tanks are treated there maybe more junk for filters to take out. Filters cost money. Changing filters ain’t fun if off the dock. Personally if possible would tap the extreme bottom of the tank. If nothing buy a full case of filters just in case and go for it after adding biocide. If something get to a point you’re comfortable you have clean fuel. Even with dual racors going into a hot cramped engine room changing filters is something to avoid if possible. A lot has been written if routine polishing is worthwhile. I don’t know. I do have a system on my current boat so will use it. But if I had your concern I agree with you. I’d want to know I had clean fuel before leaving the dock.
 
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Thanks everyone for the informative replays. I've got more than enough info here to be confident in running it.
As to water getting in the tanks, I'm sure it helps that the boat is under cover.
 
Where was the fuel purchased? If from a vendor known to pump a high volume, you shouldn't worry. If from a vendor know to pump contaminated fuel, different issue, so you should put in some biobor. If you simply don't know, siphon off a jar full and inspect it. That should be an indication of the condition of the balance in the tank.

My own sits every winter, for 6 months. It starts right up and has never had an issue. I fill at a high volume barge in Vancouver Harbour.
 
Simi said it simply..."it one theory".

Unless specifics are known/ measured....it's just one theory. Sure you can base a theory with science...but again 2 boats sitting side by side can have 2 different results as the conditions can be different in many of the critical measurements.


@simi,


On of the reasons why one boat can have it and the one next door doesn't is e.g. the level in the fuel tanks. The reason why you have to fill up your boat in wintertime is to have the least amount of air in the tanks, thus reducing the risk of condensation.

Another reason is indeed the quality of the diesel itself. Like Hippocampus states you could have a lot of dirt and debris in the fuel if you get eg the bottom part of the tank of the filling station. Eventually you will filter it out, but it could contain the bacteria that cause the algae.

A further reason is the location and quality of the tanks in the boat. A tupper ware tank will cool down slower than a metal tank and will thus cause less condensation.

The use of a diesel protective is also very important. A good diesel protector kills all the bacteria in the fuel and thus prevents the growth of algae. You can still have water in the tank due to condensation, but bacteria won't grow.


In other words, there are so many reasons why you will or will not have algae in your tank. The most important part for us is doing everything we can to avoid it.

Adding diesel protective, keeping the tanks full in winter time, making sure you get clean diesel (eg from a very busy filling station), it all helps to keep the algae out of your fuel. Once you get them in your tanks you will have to clean the tanks and that is a bloody nightmare. You can either do it yourself or find a company that can do it. Most of the time they throw away the old fuel (very costly nowadays) and on top of that you have to pay them (also very costly).
 
After a hurricane, I started engine, and in a few minutes, water in fuel alarm, drained the primary filter, alarmed again, drained again, change the o'rings on the
fuel deck fittings, all is well. I have since installed a Reverso fuel polishing system. The Reverso is a good clean install.
 
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Must have magic tanks or magic diesel.
Or maybe it's the fillers in the cabin sides - not in the deck where compromised O rings let in water.

We Aussies also have the benefits of full synthetic diesel. I don't even know where to buy biodiesel here. Much longer shelf life.

For the record my tanks are a 50% blend of 2yo and 5yo diesel. No signs of deterioration whatsover. However, I did add a cap to the tank vents for when I'm idle for long periods because I'm in the tropical north.

Cheers
 
Good article from Steve d'antonio on diesel fuel treatment. Find Part 2 too.

Like Simi, I've run 10+ year old diesel in an old natural diesel. I would be more concerned with a newer common rail, but 10-months old would be a concern.

I run Stanadyne fuel stabilizer vs a biocide. The article attached provides decent background.

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/diesel-fuel-additives-part-i/

Peter
 
Hey Yukon Jack, I looked at your boat when it was for sale. It is a great boat. As I recall they replaced the black iron tanks in the boat so I would not be concerned. Just change the filters and go. Having had the iron tanks replaced so recently you have no worries. I think it was two years ago we looked at it and they were in the process of replacing them.
 
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I put in Sta-bil and BioBor in the fall at final fill up just to be on the safe side.
 
My own sits every winter, for 6 months. It starts right up and has never had an issue. I fill at a high volume barge in Vancouver Harbour.

If you are like me and fill your tanks in the fall, it not only sits for 6 mos, but also into the next season as you begin to use it. I've only used half my fuel from last year and just topped off, so some of the fuel in my talks is approaching a year old. I never have fuel problems with this boat and never even a concern of mine. I do try to always buy Valvtect and use some extra biocide in the fall before layup.
 
Good article from Steve d'antonio on diesel fuel treatment. Find Part 2 too.

Like Simi, I've run 10+ year old diesel in an old natural diesel. I would be more concerned with a newer common rail, but 10-months old would be a concern.

I run Stanadyne fuel stabilizer vs a biocide. The article attached provides decent background.

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/diesel-fuel-additives-part-i/

Peter

Edit - fat-fingered this: 10-months would NOT be a concern even with a common rail.
 
Ah yes, boat show and snake oil season always seem to run together.
Lots of ways to kill the 'bugs' to clean/kill the bugs in your diesel fuel.
I especially like the system that prevent hull growth.
You do whatever you want but realize, there is no perfect system.
 
If adding one of the products mentioned above or similar, mix it in,by adding fuel on top of added product, some products may coagulate unless diluted. Of course that adds more fuel, when you want to use what you have.
I`ve had success preserving 2 stroke fuel with an additive, with diesel I`ve added stuff, and not. Unless you see a problem with the existing fuel don`t be overly concerned.
 
I've never had a problem with mixed 2 stroke fuel, the mix oil always had stabilizer in it. Come to think about it, I never had a problem with the oil tank 2 stroke I had either as the oil injection happened before the carbs. The only time I ran the outboard dry (pull fuel connector) was when I had to load the thing in my trunk to drive home.

I did have to service 2 (4 stroke) motorcycles with gummed up carbs from sitting too long.
 
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I use GASOILA to check for water in the tank. Smear some on the tip of a dowel that will reach the bottom of the tank from the filler. It will change from brown to florissant green if there is water on the bottom.
jp
 
After a planned 6 months on-the-hard (tanks full) turned into 22 months due to the pandemic, we had absolutely no problem using up our old diesel fuel. I had the same concern as you and came to TF for advice about this on an earlier thread. The only thing I did that was different than usual was to have 4 spare primary filter cartridges with me instead of my usual two -- just in case. In the end, I didn't have to make any extra fuel filter changes. So, like others have said here, I would just go out and use it. Enjoy!
This has been my personal experience also. FWIW, the condensate in partially full tanks is way overstated, especially if one believes Rod Collins’ (Mainsail/ Marinehowto.com) experiments. Most water in diesel fuel comes from the deck fill - either from leaking O ring or shore origin fuel tanks.
Sure take some extra filters, but absent water in your Racors, bet u won’t need them.
 
I'll take it
Ours happily ran on 10 YEAR old diesel when we got her.




Mine too! 10 years old!



Just to wear belts and suspenders, I pumped exiting fuel to the port side, and filled the starboard side with fresh diesel.


I have a day tank so I'll use 50% from each side when I fill the day tank. I probably don't have to, but it's easy to do so why not?


I use https://powerservice.com/ products in my VW TDI, and it quiets the clatter and improves the mileage enough to pay for itself, so I added that to the boat too.


Of course, I did the ceremony to check for water in the tanks and use decent filters/separators.
 
Years ago, I learned diesel fuel has a longer storage life than gasoline. With the proper treatment and filters, it will last longer than 10 years.
 
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