North CA moorage-tax/fees vs. WA State?

[LeoKa]

A fellow boater told me that the reason he moved out from South CA to the Seattle area was the taxes and fees he had to pay, while living on his boat there. In his opinion, WA is more affordable, even with the 12.8% tax they charge for renting live aboard slips here.
Anyone has a comparison on this matter? I am only asking about the taxes and fees. Moorage per foot is lot more in CA. At least in South CA.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

I don't think that I've ever heard of a tax for live a boards in WA. We certainly don't have have anything like that and we are just a few miles south of you. The marina may have a surcharge for live a boards, who collects the money? Is this a city or county tax? it's certainly not state wide.

 

[LeoKa]

I don't think that I've ever heard of a tax for live a boards in WA. We certainly don't have have anything like that and we are just a few miles south of you. The marina may have a surcharge for live a boards, who collects the money? Is this a city or county tax? it's certainly not state wide.

John Wayne Marina Rates and Fees
Effective January 1, 2023
RATES
prices are per-foot/per-month, plus State L/H Tax (12.84%)
Less than 30’ 30’- 39’
40’- 49’
50’- 59’ 60’& Over
Less than 75’ 75’ or greater
$9.79 $10.68 $11.23 $12.25 $12.86
$1.50/lf/day $2.09/lf/day


State L/H Tax 12.84%
This is quoted from John Wayne Marina, Port Angeles, WA web page.

 

[DDW]

I believe if you stay longer than 30 consecutive days in a WA state marina that you are on the hook for tax. Not just for the 31st day, but also for the first 30. Good marina's warn you of this so you can leave on day 29 for one night.

 

[LeoKa]

I am looking for info on CA.
Thanks.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Oregon is much better than CALI or WA

 

[IRENE]

WA Leasehold Excise Tax

The 12.84% is a leasehold excise tax on the use of a public property (like John Wayne Marina) by a private party. The tax is unrelated to living aboard, and none goes directly to the marina. Its a tax on the rent, not the value of your boat. Full details here:

https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/other-taxes/leasehold-excise-tax

Related, John Wayne Marina does charge an additional FEE if you live aboard. I don’t recall ever finding a marina in WA that does not charge more to live aboard.

 

[IRENE]

CA overview source

A concise description about CA property tax on vessels.

https://aglyachtsales.com/california-property-tax-on-vessels/

CA - 1.1% roughly (counties set actual rates) of assessed value per year.

WA - .5% of fair market value per year.

 

[LeoKa]

A concise description about CA property tax on vessels.



https://aglyachtsales.com/california-property-tax-on-vessels/



CA - 1.1% roughly (counties set actual rates) of assessed value per year.



WA - .5% of fair market value per year.

Very good explanation in the article, thank you.

WA is cheaper on taxes, unless you can find lower mooring rates in CA. That can compensate for the higher CA taxes.

 

[LeoKa]

The 12.84% is a leasehold excise tax on the use of a public property (like John Wayne Marina) by a private party. The tax is unrelated to living aboard, and none goes directly to the marina. Its a tax on the rent, not the value of your boat. Full details here:

https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/other-taxes/leasehold-excise-tax

Related, John Wayne Marina does charge an additional FEE if you live aboard. I don’t recall ever finding a marina in WA that does not charge more to live aboard.

Understand now. Thank you.
Is it true that not every marina charges the L/H tax?

( I have never said that live aboard can be free. Every marina I know charges a fee. The latest trick to charge you for two people, even if you are just a single liveaboard person.)

 

[LeoKa]

Oregon is much better than CALI or WA

Tell me more….!

Lol

 

[helm]

California arbitrarily increased the assessed value of every used vessel over 30 feet by 24% this year and there really is nothing an owner can do about it short of getting a survey and valuation. Aircraft received a similar increase. We won’t move our boat because of the convenience and cruising grounds but seriously a 24% increase in the assessed value in one year seems pretty unreasonable

 

[LeoKa]

We won’t move our boat because of the convenience and cruising grounds but seriously a 24% increase in the assessed value in one year seems pretty unreasonable

Ouch……

 

[markpierce]

California arbitrarily increased the assessed value of every used vessel over 30 feet by 24% this year and there really is nothing an owner can do about it short of getting a survey and valuation. Aircraft received a similar increase. We won’t move our boat because of the convenience and cruising grounds but seriously a 24% increase in the assessed value in one year seems pretty unreasonable

Since when does the typical recreational boat become more valuable as it ages?

 

[guy with a boat]

Since when does the typical recreational boat become more valuable as it ages?

Since early 2020. That period may be ending, but it was the case for a couple years.

 

[LeoKa]

California arbitrarily increased the assessed value of every used vessel over 30 feet pretty unreasonable

Do you pay any other fees or taxes on a yearly bases for boat ownership, like we pay L/H tax in certain marinas here in WA?

 

[twistedtree]

LeoKa, I presume you are already paid up on WA use tax? If you moved to CA you might be subject to CA use tax. I don't know the rules for CA. These are one-time taxes based on boat value.



In both WA and CA there is an annual property/excise tax based on the boat's value. There was a good reference above for that.


WA has the leasehold tax which is a tax on the moorage, not on the boat value. There was a good link on that too. I don't know if WA moorage is subject to sales tax. Anyone know?


CA may charge sales tax on moorage, I don't know. Does anyone know?

 

[Taras]

I have been in Marina Del Rey, CA for 25 years. All marina's here charge a 50% surcharge if you are a "Liveaboard". So for a 50 foot vessel, a slip would be somewhere around $1000 per month + $500 liveaboard surcharge = $1500 per month. This includes water and power. In addition, the State will charge you "Property Tax" for being there which is about 1.5% of the assessed value per year. Those are the only charges (although high, I know). San Pedro and Long Beach marina's are a bit cheaper than Marina Del Rey

 

[DDW]

I haven't seen a tax of any kind on moorage in any California marina I've been in. Of course it may be a local tax, there are places (like San Diego) which seem to specialize in that sort of thing. The WA tax isn't just for private marinas on public land: Cap Sante charges it, even though it is a municipally owned and run public marina.

WA use tax can be offset by use tax paid in another state. I don't think that is true in California. However if you buy and use a boat outside of California, you can apply for an exemption and the exemption is permanent, even if you later bring it to California. That is not true of Washington.

California personal property tax is limited to 1% of market value, and can go up no more than 2% per year, per the Prop 13 constitutional initiative, on real property. Personal property (boats) are subject to the 1% cap, but not to the 2% valuation change.

 

[LeoKa]

LeoKa, I presume you are already paid up on WA use tax? If you moved to CA you might be subject to CA use tax. I don't know the rules for CA. These are one-time taxes based on


CA may charge sales tax on moorage, I don't know. Does anyone know?

I don’t know what it is called, used tax or whatever tax? What I know is that I paid sales tax when I bought my boat, and I pay a yearly property value tax every June.

I moor in WA and I pay mooring per foot, electricity, and live aboard fee, each month.

 

[LeoKa]

I have been in Marina Del Rey, CA for 25 years. All marina's here charge a 50% surcharge if you are a "Liveaboard". So for a 50 foot Rey

Holy smoke! 50% for live aboard?
At least the electricity is included.

 

[Crusty Chief]

Tell me more….!

Lol

We decided on Oregon for several reasons, the main reason was the tax’s or lack of in Oregon.

Oregon doesn’t have a sale’s tax nor did they have a property tax on boats. You will be required to register your vessels ( and you’re dingy ) even if CC documented. For us it was like $250 a year for both the boat and the dingy, that’s it. If we moored in WA Combined tax’s initially would have been close to $50K first year (initial sales tax and property tax) and about $2.5K every year after. Considering we were planning to be cruising 6-8 months out of the year, you see why we chose Oregon.

We parked our boat when not cruising, for several years on the Oregon side of the Columbia on Hayden Island, right off the I-5. PDX airport is a short distance away. Marina fee’s were substantially less than the Puget Sound area and they tended to not enforce live aboard requirements as much. We were Nevada residents but we stayed on the boat for long periods of time, just didn’t abuse it. Also, we didn’t have to pay slip fee’s while cruising and they accommodated us ever time we returned from cruising, just payed month to month instead of a lease.

The Columbia near Portland is fresh water so that was a plus. As I recall, a 50 foot slip was under $600 a month, electric was billed on use.

Hope that answered your question.

 

[LeoKa]

We decided on Oregon for several reasons, the main reason



Hope that answered your question.

You sure did. Thank you.

I like OR. The coastline is beautiful.
Unfortunately I am full time liveaboard, so that is a challenge. However, in the near future I’ll plan to store the boat on dry, and cruise it equally in a year period. I am still trying to figure it out, when and where will be the best to accomplish this. CA is attractive up on the northern part, but taxes are not.

 

[twistedtree]

You sure did. Thank you.

I like OR. The coastline is beautiful.
Unfortunately I am full time liveaboard, so that is a challenge. However, in the near future I’ll plan to store the boat on dry, and cruise it equally in a year period. I am still trying to figure it out, when and where will be the best to accomplish this. CA is attractive up on the northern part, but taxes are not.

If you are a WA resident, which I think you are, I believe WA considers boats moored on the Columbia, even if on the OR side, to be in WA and subject to WA taxes.

 

[IRENE]

I don't know if WA moorage is subject to sales tax. Anyone know?

We are not charged SALES tax on our WA moorage.

 

[LeoKa]

If you are a WA resident, which I think you are, I believe WA considers boats moored on the Columbia, even if on the OR side, to be in WA and subject to WA taxes.

What if I become an OR resident and register my boat there?

 

[Crusty Chief]

What if I become an OR resident and register my boat there?

In our particular case, we believed that sales tax was never paid on the boat. We were and still are residents of Nevada. But Oregon was more than happy to allow us to register the vessel in Oregon. This allowed us to park the boat in Oregon as a non resident and not pay the sales tax. What I do know is if sales tax was never paid on an asset, both California and Washington would want to collect the sales tax and property tax if the asset was in there state for a period of time. That’s why we kept meticulous records on our travels and didnt stay in those two states for more than 90 days in a calendar year. We found this to be the same issue when we made it to the East coast prior to selling our boat last year.

Since I don’t know what state you are currently calling your residence this may affect you differently than it did with us. It really is important that you understand the tax liability of each state that you may end up in. Especially if you plan to be there for a long period. This wasn’t an issue while we were traveling out of country. But those countries have there own way of collecting money while in there waters.

Many people who travel either by boat or RV and don’t have an actual residence have the same problem. Along with a slew of other problems, such as Social Security, Medicare and a valid drivers license. That’s why we retained our NV residency.

Sorry to confuse things a bit.

 

[Crusty Chief]

What if I become an OR resident and register my boat there?

Also, if you become an Oregon resident you may be required to pay income tax.

 

[LeoKa]

In our particular case, we believed that sales tax was never paid on the boat.


Sorry to confuse things a bit.

No confusion. I completely understand your reasonings.

In my case, I am a WA resident and I did pay sales tax on my boat when I bought it here in WA. That was a one time payment. After, each year, I pay property taxes, which is the 0.5% of the assessed value of my boat, as it was stated earlier.

I am retired already, so I can move to any state and live there. OR is only few hours drive from my location, but a bit longer sailing to go around the Olympic peninsula to relocate my boat.

The question is, if I relocated myself to OR and become a resident there, what will OR charge me?
Nothing? Registration fee only? Yearly property tax? Or combination of these?
I suspect the sales tax is done, since I paid it once already.

 

[LeoKa]

Also, if you become an Oregon resident you may be required to pay income tax.

Do you mean OR State income tax?

We pay Federal here in WA, but not State.