My bilge pump blew up

[Wanna-b]

Hey all, let me preface this with I’m pretty sure I wired it up correctly?. So I noticed the sump pump in the bathroom was wired not so good so I thought I would improve it. Since then, the pump has not worked. When I tried tackling it again today, I turned the breaker on and after a few minutes I got shocked, there was smoke, and a loud bang noise. I didn’t stick around, I ran to shut off the breaker. When I got back, the red portion of the Rule 360 was very hot, and had a whole blown in it. Was this just an old grimy pump that was stuck and overheated, or did something else cause this (my bad wiring). There is water in the collection box, so if wired, this pump should have been running since I turned on the breaker....about 5-6 minutes. Any help is appreciated, thanks

 

[rgano]

Shorted motor and no fuse in the circuit?

 

[O C Diver]

I had a rule automatic fail and start a small fire. There is an expected small amount of early life failures. The fire was my fault as I didn't follow the instructions and used to big a fuse. Those pumps use a small amount of current (amps). Having more available than they need can turn the internal wiring into a heating element.

Ted

 

[Wanna-b]

My limited understanding of the wiring is a breaker switch at the panel, an “off/auto/manual” switch in the bathroom. I have been looking for a fuse because I initially thought that was the problem and couldn’t find one. So did the motor short because it was jammed up, or short due to the wiring? Or is there no way to tell with my limited info? I’ve realized I need to place a fuse between the bathroom toggle switch and the pump.

 

[High Wire]

Several of my small Rule pumps died that way beginning with a long period of storage. They arc at the brushes and overheat to the extreme. Check the voltage at the power leads to make sure nothing hoky going on. If 12-13VDC just install a new pump of another manuf with fuse as stated in the install instructions. Your panel breaker may not be correctly sized.
"A short" due to boat wiring won't fail like that. That looks like the results of a hard-to-turn shaft to me.

 

[Iggy]

Shorted motor and no fuse in the circuit?

Yep!

 

[Arc]

I had the same thing happen with a 5 amp fuse in line. Almost lost the boat. Bilge fill with smoke while I was not there. It was a Rule with built in float switch.

 

[fgarriso]

Are you sure you wired to 12VDC. I have NEVER been shocked by 12v.

 

[boatpoker]

My limited understanding of the wiring is a breaker switch at the panel, an “off/auto/manual” switch in the bathroom. I have been looking for a fuse because I initially thought that was the problem and couldn’t find one. So did the motor short because it was jammed up, or short due to the wiring? Or is there no way to tell with my limited info? I’ve realized I need to place a fuse between the bathroom toggle switch and the pump.

Most on/off/manual panels have fuses right in the panel. Like these ...

 

[Comodave]

I went to Johnson pumps, think they are built better, maybe.

 

[SoWhat]

Had the same model. Melted the same way. But it was UNDER water!
PO Installation. Won't be another one on any boat I own.

 

[STB]

Are you sure you wired to 12VDC. I have NEVER been shocked by 12v.

This. ^ Check. Carefully. Please.

 

[Iggy]

I had the same thing happen with a 5 amp fuse in line. Almost lost the boat. Bilge fill with smoke while I was not there. It was a Rule with built in float switch.

Something sound odd. You would think the fuse would pop first.

 

[Comodave]

12 volts should not shock you noticeably. I did get shocked one time when I out a hand in the bilge water while touching an engine. I measured it at 43 VAC, not DC. Turned out some PO had replaced a shore power inlet and reversed the hot and neutral conductors. Maybe check the water for AC voltage. I replaced the inlet again and the undersized wire the PO had used and wired the inlet correctly and the AC voltage in the bilge water was gone.

 

[O C Diver]

Something sound odd. You would think the fuse would pop first.

The pump I had burn up required a 2 amp fuse. I think either a 5 or 7 amp was enough to cook mine off. They specify the size for a very good reason.

Ted

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. W-b. The fact you felt a shock concerns me, as well. Something is seriously amiss. What you NEED is a VOM (Volt/ohm meter) and some training in how to use it. Failing that, get a certified electrician in there.


You "improved it" and then it didn't work? Yup. You might want to get some training. Once you have the know-how, trouble shooting electrical "stuff" will become easier.

 

[BeeJay]

Think he means “got a shock” as in “got a surprise”. Although it is possible to get a 12 v electric shock you will most likely get a much bigger one walking in on Grandpa.......(oh never mind) you get the drift.

 

[Group9]

Something sound odd. You would think the fuse would pop first.

You would think so, but I had one melt down like that, too without popping the fuse or the panel breaker.

Scared the crap out of me when I found it, thinking what could have happened. At the time, I thought the float switch had stuck in an on position, and just replaced it when I replaced the pump.

Now, I’m leaning toward the stuck shaft idea.

 

[Iggy]

You would think so, but I had one melt down like that, too without popping the fuse or the panel breaker.

Scared the crap out of me when I found it, thinking what could have happened. At the time, I thought the float switch had stuck in an on position, and just replaced it when I replaced the pump.

Now, I’m leaning toward the stuck shaft idea.

I think from past experience, if you have one of these pumps. You must use the lowest rated fuse/breaker you can.

Good to know what happened to others!

 

[CharlieJ]

O.C. Diver #3 is spot on. This subject was just discussed on the Cruisers' Forum. Here is my posting from there:

The fine point is that manufacturers of marine pumps are required to provide their recommendation for over current protection to protect against a locked rotor event. The demo I am more familiar with included putting a 5A fuse in the B+ supplying the pump where the manufacturer would call for a 3.5A fuse. The AWG 16 pigtails could easily handle the 5A so no big deal. The pump would start to destructively overheat and the 5A fuse would not open.

So the advice is to install the size and type of OCPD that the pump manufacturer specifies. If I cannot match the OCPD requirement to a OTS circuit breaker, I usually install the fuse holder on the load side of the circuit breaker controlling the pump right at the breaker. This is to ensure that the fuse holder is not buried and forgotten.

 

[Wanna-b]

Thanks for all the replies. I have ordered a new pump, switch, and float. I will check for voltage as well. All good info as always.

 

[lwarden]

Rule pumps used to be pretty reasonable quality and would last for quite a few years. At some point they began to use cheaper stainless for the shaft material and this causes them to rust and eventually bind up. I stopped using them and switched to Johnson pumps as noted. One other thing I've run into is zip tie ends which have been cut off floating into the pump and jamming them. I'm now very careful not to retrieve every cut end of zip ties these days.