Mastervolt vs Victron

[captcarp]

10 year old Mastervolt Combi 12-2500/100 inverter/charger failed. Looks like the newer Mastervolt unit closest to this is a Combimaster 12-3000/160. Anyone have experience with this?

Also, Victron has a 3000w, 120a, inverter charger that would fit in available real estate. They’re both about the same price. Anyone have experience with this unit?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Dennis Carpenter
1998 36’ Island Gypsy Europa

 

[ranger58sb]

We have a Victron MultiPlus 24V 3000W 120VAC 70A inverter/charger. Not quite a year old yet. Seems to work fine.

Installation included a Digital Multi Control and a BMV-712, so we can easily monitor/control from the saloon.

-Chris

 

[captcarp]

Thanks for your input. Appreciate it.

 

[Cigatoo]

10 year old Mastervolt Combi 12-2500/100 inverter/charger failed. Looks like the newer Mastervolt unit closest to this is a Combimaster 12-3000/160. Anyone have experience with this?

Also, Victron has a 3000w, 120a, inverter charger that would fit in available real estate. They’re both about the same price. Anyone have experience with this unit?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Dennis Carpenter
1998 36’ Island Gypsy Europa

I have the same Mastervolt inverter. Installed in 2014. Has been flawless thus far. What were the symptoms of yours failing?

 

[twistedtree]

I would go with Victron, no question. I don't think there is much left of MasterVolt other than the name after the company has been bought and sold several times. I tried a while back to get a very basic question answered about a product I wanted to buy, and I was never able to get an answer - none at all. It was like nobody was home.

 

[Hyperion]

I'm doing victron.

Good Primer for Victron

 

[DDW]

If replacing, I'd go with Victron for the reasons TT says. The two of them used to be fierce competitors with equivalent products, maybe Mastervolt was a bit ahead. But in the last decade Victron has left Mastervolt in the dust.

 

[captcarp]

I have the same Mastervolt inverter. Installed in 2014. Has been flawless thus far. What were the symptoms of yours failing?

Hi Cigatoo,

The old Combi wouldn’t take ac input from shore power or generator. It kept clicking on and offf. I watched input voltage go from 120 to 20 every few seconds. When I finally got hold pf Mastervolt they suggested I replace it and didn’t want to go any further than that (should’ve realized they weren’t going to provide any real support in try to find the problem).

Anyway, I am going to replace it and the new Mastervolt looks like a simple replacement. I’ll probably try it and hope that I won’t require their support.

 

[Cigatoo]

Hi Cigatoo,

The old Combi wouldn’t take ac input from shore power or generator. It kept clicking on and offf. I watched input voltage go from 120 to 20 every few seconds. When I finally got hold pf Mastervolt they suggested I replace it and didn’t want to go any further than that (should’ve realized they weren’t going to provide any real support in try to find the problem).

Anyway, I am going to replace it and the new Mastervolt looks like a simple replacement. I’ll probably try it and hope that I won’t require their support.

Thanks for that info Carp. Sorry to hear that they wouldn’t offer further support or advice. Good luck.

 

[fgarriso]

You might try here.

https://www.mastervolt.com/downloads/

 

[tpbrady]

I can't speak to Mastervolt, but Victron's documentation is not that good and the products are not well integrated when it comes to configuration. I found you can do some configuration from the Cerbo GX but you need to the USB device to do complete configuration. Their interface through the Cerbo GX looks good, but does some things I think are just plain wrong. They use watts when they should be using amps and you do the setup in amps. I can do the math in my head, but it would be nice if they would settle on a unit of measure that fits the display. My generator is rated in watts but my shore power connection is rated in amps. My only option is to view AC power in watts but I set the threshold for inverter supplement to AC shore/generator power in amps. On the DC side, I am more interested in amps, but the graphic display shows watts being consumed by the DC system, but it shows the current to the battery in amps. When on battery only that is fine as the watts and amp reading should be easily converted mathematically. On AC power it doesn't help at all without doing the math to convert watts to amps considering the current battery voltage. My major complaint is that its charging algorithm is not properly explained in the documentation. If the charging function is left on all the time, the unit will not enter bulk charging unless battery voltage is less than I think 12.5V. That means you could be less then 70% SOC and the charger will go to its last charging profile which may have been float. it's really strange to see the charging profile as float with nearly 40 amps going into the battery at 13.6V.

Tom

 

[DDW]

Not sure which Victron charger you have but it should go into Storage, then switch to absorb once a week. For their combi units, you do need the USB interface to program everything. The switch from float to bulk is a settable parameter on at least some of the chargers - can't speak to all of them.

I will not argue that their documentation sets the standard - lots of room for improvement there.

 

[catalinajack]

Just wondering, why is not a Magnum product not a part of the discussion? Is not a Magnum 2812 pretty much a simple installation? I'm thinking about how many times I have read about Victron being challenging.

 

[Cigatoo]

I think all 3 products are top of line. Based on my experience with the Mastervolt product I think I would just replace with another Mastervolt. Maybe their service leaves something to be desired but overall the product works well. Mastervolt being a plug and play replacement would certainly weigh heavily on that decision.

 

[sunchaser]

CJ
Victron is likely the class leader when going all in on LFPs and solar. As us old timers have seen the inverter charger flavor of the year is constantly changing thus with a tweak or two some other manufacturer will gain favor.

Not too many are using large LFP systems with Magnum. Maybe we’ll hear otherwise but at this point Victron has the juice and the backing of the pros like Calder and Collins.

 

[DDW]

The Magnum is very pedestrian compared to either Victron or Mastervolt. I made the mistake of putting one in the camper, a mistake I will not repeat. It has now broken itself, giving me the opportunity to replace it.

 

[tpbrady]

DDW,

My problem with the Victron charging logic is if I leave the dock with fully charged batteries and the charger in float mode, then spend the night on anchor and drawn the bank down to 75% SOC, when I start the generator, the charger stays in float mode and charges at a lower voltage when it should switch to bulk mode. If I turn it off and back on it goes to bulk. My assessment is that is just plain wrong. I don’t know if it will do that with an LFP bank, but I would watch it closely.

Tom

 

[twistedtree]

DDW,

My problem with the Victron charging logic is if I leave the dock with fully charged batteries and the charger in float mode, then spend the night on anchor and drawn the bank down to 75% SOC, when I start the generator, the charger stays in float mode and charges at a lower voltage when it should switch to bulk mode. If I turn it off and back on it goes to bulk. My assessment is that is just plain wrong. I don’t know if it will do that with an LFP bank, but I would watch it closely.

Tom

I agree that this is completely brain dead. Most chargers have a re-bulk setting where you can program the threshold for starting a new bulk cycle. And all chargers that I have encountered except for Victron start bulk cycle when AC power first appears.


One suggestion I can offer is to check your firmware revision, and check victron's change log for the different versions. A while back they made some changes to improve this, especially with respect to LFP where it was a complete disaster. PM me if you want some help as I think I have the change log sitting around somewhere.


Victron is far from perfect, but at this point I think they are the lesser of evils.

 

[ranger58sb]

My problem with the Victron charging logic is if I leave the dock with fully charged batteries and the charger in float mode, then spend the night on anchor and drawn the bank down to 75% SOC, when I start the generator, the charger stays in float mode and charges at a lower voltage when it should switch to bulk mode. If I turn it off and back on it goes to bulk. My assessment is that is just plain wrong.

I've recently discovered that, too. Weird. Not difficult to manage; switch off, slow count, switch on, goes to bulk. But I'd have thought the management software could have figured that out.

Unless there's some reason that I dunno about to NOT automatically go to bulk.

?

-Chris

 

[wkearney99]

Victron is far from perfect, but at this point I think they are the lesser of evils.

And they don't seem as hell-bent on hiding things behind 'proprietary' protocols and interfaces. That alone puts them way ahead of others.

 

[DDW]

I agree that this is completely brain dead. Most chargers have a re-bulk setting where you can program the threshold for starting a new bulk cycle. And all chargers that I have encountered except for Victron start bulk cycle when AC power first appears.

I think my Victron chargers have this? Certainly a re-bulk setting, Not certain about the automatic bulk on AC connect.

When the LFP bank is down to 75%, what is the voltage? One problem with LFP is there may not be enough difference in voltage between 100% and 75% to make a decision.

is there a Victron 7xx in the system or a Smart shunt?

 

[captcarp]

10 year old Mastervolt Combi 12-2500/100 inverter/charger failed. Looks like the newer Mastervolt unit closest to this is a Combimaster 12-3000/160. Anyone have experience with this?

Also, Victron has a 3000w, 120a, inverter charger that would fit in available real estate. They’re both about the same price. Anyone have experience with this unit?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Dennis Carpenter
1998 36’ Island Gypsy Europa

Well for convenience I chose to replace unit with Mastervolt . Big mistake. Unit would not work consistently with gen power, but okay with shore power. Controller/display rarely worked (coms issue). Tried unsuccessfully to get Mastervolt service help. Yesterday we, electrician and I, pulled out unit and installed a Victron 12-3000/120. Everything worked instantly. In summary Mastervolt product and service were abysmal Electrician said “never again”.
Victron unit was less expensive, documentation was okay, controller/display was simple and apparently has been around for years. My original battery monitoring and solar controller still working well so all I really needed was remote controller.

As usual thanks for all of the great responses.

Dennis Carpenter

 

[danderer]

interesting. I haven't see this behavior on my Multiplus. Upon the restoration of AC power it starts in bulk. Of course if the battery is only down a little it then quickly goes to absorption and finally float.

DDW,

My problem with the Victron charging logic is if I leave the dock with fully charged batteries and the charger in float mode, then spend the night on anchor and drawn the bank down to 75% SOC, when I start the generator, the charger stays in float mode and charges at a lower voltage when it should switch to bulk mode. If I turn it off and back on it goes to bulk. My assessment is that is just plain wrong. I don’t know if it will do that with an LFP bank, but I would watch it closely.

Tom

 

[RobertLeatch]

Not an expert but I think this is a known issue with Victron Multiplus that is related to a hard coded "rebulk" voltage. Essentially once a full charge cycle is completed, the voltage has to fall to a set level (type dependant) before a new bulk cycle is initiated. In the newer MPPT controllers you can set the rebulk offset but in the Multiplus you can't change it.

Only work around is to turn on/off or drive the voltage down to the threshold value.

Some copy&paste details below.

The Multiplus re-bulk voltage is as follows (depends if 'Lithium batteries' is the selected 'battery type' in the VEConfigure 'charger' tab):

Lithium: Re-bulk Voltage = Vfloat - 0.2V (max 13.5V) - for 12V system, multiply by 2 for 24V systems & by 4 for 48V systems

Others: Re-bulk Voltage = Vfloat - 1.3V (max 12.9V) - for 12V system, multiply by 2 for 24V systems & by 4 for 48V systems

 

[ranger58sb]

interesting. I haven't see this behavior on my Multiplus. Upon the restoration of AC power it starts in bulk. Of course if the battery is only down a little it then quickly goes to absorption and finally float.

Ours does not.

I just reviewed the manuals for MultiPlus, Multi-Control, BMV... and I don't find a setting anywhere that causes auto re-bulk.

That said, I've only just discovered the way it works... and didn't find it onerous to flip the Multi-Control switch OFF and then back ON. Just needed to know I should do that.

-Chris

 

[tpbrady]

Chris,

You have found the same thing I have. The last few years it hasn't bothered me. This year it is a pain because when I shut the Multiplus off and back on to get it to go to bulk charging, it reboots my Starlink since all my outlets are run through the inverter. This is not covered in their documentation and takes what should be automatic and makes it manual.

One other thought comes to mind with Victron. Their Bluetooth implementation is poor. The range of the Bluetooth is about 6 feet. So don't count on using it for anything. I have to almost sit by the Smart Shunt to configure it.

Tom

 

[Southern Boater]

I'm doing victron.

Good Primer for Victron

Thanks for posting this video H, this is one of the best “how to” video’s I’ve seen yet, so clear and specific every step of the way, impressive!

 

[wkearney99]

This year it is a pain because when I shut the Multiplus off and back on to get it to go to bulk charging, it reboots my Starlink since all my outlets are run through the inverter.

From my perspective stuff that needs to stay running is better off powered direct from onboard DC. There are DC-starlink PoE adapters. I find onboard AC gets switched often enough to not make it worth the hassle for stuff like networking. Adds other pieces, to be sure, but saves the reboot/reset dance that comes from the more frequent AC power interruptions.

 

[RickyD]

I agree that this is completely brain dead. Most chargers have a re-bulk setting where you can program the threshold for starting a new bulk cycle. And all chargers that I have encountered except for Victron start bulk cycle when AC power first appears.


One suggestion I can offer is to check your firmware revision, and check victron's change log for the different versions. A while back they made some changes to improve this, especially with respect to LFP where it was a complete disaster. PM me if you want some help as I think I have the change log sitting around somewhere.


Victron is far from perfect, but at this point I think they are the lesser of evils.

My Victon 3000w 120amp charger/inverter Is a 2019 version and has worked well. Anytime I cut the power source, like changing from shore to inverter or generator it cycles through the whole series. Bulk, absorb, float. If I haven't used much power, bulk goes fast to absorb. The only issue for me is, when to turn off the generator as it will hit 100% then try to get to float levels. 14.4v. Once I get to 13.5v I think I'm good otherwise the generator may run for 3 hours.

 

[twistedtree]

My Victon 3000w 120amp charger/inverter Is a 2019 version and has worked well. Anytime I cut the power source, like changing from shore to inverter or generator it cycles through the whole series. Bulk, absorb, float. If I haven't used much power, bulk goes fast to absorb. The only issue for me is, when to turn off the generator as it will hit 100% then try to get to float levels. 14.4v. Once I get to 13.5v I think I'm good otherwise the generator may run for 3 hours.

That's really interesting. I assume you have a Multi? Are you turning the inverter on/off during the change over process? Turning it off then back on starts a bulk - that I'm sure of, and that's one of the work arounds. But one of the ideas behind using inverters in teh first place is to provide uninterrupted power regardless of shore power, generator, or whatever. Having to turn it off then back on completely defeats that primary goal.


I have a Quattro, but I believe (thought) they behave the same as the Multi. Mine behaved like TPBrady's. Leaving the inverter on all the time, if I start a generator to make water or whatever, mine will only start a bulk cycle if the voltage is n volts below the float setting, with exact voltage differences posted earlier by someone else. Otherwise it just goes to float.