Loss of SV Rum Truffle, Bahia del Sol bar, El Salvador

[slowgoesit]

I posted this on our PNW to Florida thread, but have been asked to post it as a separate, stand alone thread so members could be appraised of this situation, and being forewarned with information, make their own decisions on whether or not it is in their best interests.

Short story. Experienced full time Sailor, Mark Thurlow, owner of Rum Truffle, a Moody 49, lost his boat while attempting to cross the Bar into Bahia del Sol, El Salvador, with the assistance of a Pilot Boat. After the disaster, Rum Truffle was then surrounded by pangas, and stripped/looted of everything that could be removed or unbolted. Mark lost everything except for his swim trunks, and T-shirt. Everything else was looted, down to his personal belongings and clothing. Further discussion is below.

Laura and I departed Bahia del Sol, the day prior to Rum Truffle attempting to come in. It was . . . interesting. The pilot boat was in front of us, until it wasn't. He had slowed back, moved to the right, then gone behind us by 100+ yards stating that it was too rough for him out in front of us! I asked him twice if we needed to back up and abort. No reply, then he stated that he could not see the way clear for us since he was in back of us, and that if we could see the way clear, to go!

Okay, big problem here. We’re not from here. Our sole experience with crossing an entrance bar was coming in days previously, where we made it in safe . . . but there was not a lot of information communication between the pilot and us. For instance, once we got over the bar, the pilot asked "Do you have the channel?" For information, there IS NO channel marked on the chart. There are red and green buoys marked on Navionics just inside the two sand spits to right and left, but they weren't actually there in real life, just on the electronic chart. No depth soundings, no channel marked. I just picked midpoint between the two sand spits, and headed in, watching the depth sounder while the pilot boat headed back over the bar to guide the next boat in. The channel widened out, and got deeper, but I had no way of knowing for sure that was going to happen.

The pilot boat headed back out to bring in three more power boats who had come down from Chiapas, MX with us.

Back to the exit on Wednesday morning, 6 March. When the pilot told me to "go if we could see the way clear", other than seeing the area, where we assumed the bar to be where the waves marching in were not breaking (as much), we had no idea where the deeper water was supposed to be. That's what the pilot boat was for. Still well short of the bar, the water depth was getting shallower, decreasing from 13' to about 11'. I felt I was getting closer to the sand spit to the West, since I was edging over to where the pilot boat had been before he unassed the AO and got behind us.

If we had aborted, it would have required going astern in the breaking waves, steering with the bow thruster, not knowing exactly how deep it was behind me, or attempting to turn around to right or left in the time period between wave sets, using thrust, rudder, and bow thruster to maximize the rate of turn. Problem with that is that at 50' and 85,000 lbs, this boat doesn't exactly turn on a dime, so based on the experience of attempting the departure on 2 March, which was aborted due to worse conditions at the bar than were forecast, I knew that we were going to take one set of waves broadside while in the middle of the turn. The elephant in the room, was not knowing exactly where the channel was (that's what the pilot boat is supposed to be for), We didn't know where the deeper water was, so we didn't know which direction to turn.

So I made the decision to go straight ahead, picking the point midway between the breaking waves and hoping for the best, as the decision that had the best chance of success. Apparently I guessed correctly, as we crossed the bar without further incident. Video Laura shot showed the depth sounder reporting a depth as shallow as 8.2 feet, so one of three things happened.

• First, that may indeed have been the max depth of the actual "deep channel", if I was in it
• Second, the 8.2 foot reading may have been when our boat was in a serious trough
• Third, I may have not been in the actual channel, if such channel indeed existed, but may have been off to one side or the other. Not knowing where the “12 foot deep” channel actually was, this is a definite possibility.

The two boats following us out, a catamaran that drew about 4’, and a mono-hulled sailboat, draft unknown, also successfully crossed the bar after us. We’re not sure if the pilot boat was in front of them, showing them the way, or behind them, as it was for our exit.

As far as we know, we were the 5th to last boat to successfully cross the Bahia del Sol bar inbound or outbound prior to the Rum Truffle’s disastrous loss. The reported 4.5’ draft power boat who came in first reported no issues.

The owner/operator of the 2nd boat, Long Windid, drawing 6 foot draft, stated that they hit bottom multiple times during the crossing in, then broached, laying on their side with the spreader bar in the water (so about 90 degree roll), then righted itself and passed over the bar. Rum Truffle, reported draft at 7’, drew 1 foot MORE water than Long Windid. Long Windid reported what had occurred to the pilot boat, who replied that they mis-read the waves . . . . Rum Truffle viewed the entire encounter, and asked the pilot boat what had happened. The pilot boat reassured Rum Truffle that all was okay, and they would guide them safely across the bar. My opinion: Rum Truffle should have been waved off by the pilot boat. But I wasn’t there.

We had serious concerns about crossing the bar into Bahia del Sol. Frankly, we had no prior experience navigating entrance bars, and were also concerned with potentially getting stuck inside the bar, unable to leave BDS, and potentially missing our 19 March, scheduled Panama Canal Transit. If we stayed in BDS for 1 week, we would still have 15 days to get to Panama City, a straight through run of 4 days, or about 11 days leeway for unexpected weather, or other issues, which would have left us with some time to slow down and visit more places on the way to Panama City.

Now it is coming out that many MANY boats have apparently struck the bar while attempting to cross, sustaining damage during the passage.
It has also come out that the pilot boat does not have any way of determining depth except a lead line, and also has no GPS to accurately determine or chart depths, or the location of any passage they may actually find . . . . This is irresponsible, if not criminal in my opinion.

As soon as Mark was safely recovered by the pilot boat, the pangas descended and immediately began stripping the wreck. No attempt was made by any authorities to prevent the looting. By the next morning, Rum Truffle had been stripped of anything that swimmers, divers, or looters could take, steal, or unbolt from the wreck.

Based on what we knew at the time, we elected to go into BDS, being swayed by the argument that “Thousands of boats have made the crossing before you, without incident, you’re being overly cautious!”

We did the risk assessment, looking at the risks, looking at possible outcomes ranging from best case of: “Successful crossing, no issues”, to worst case: “Loss of boat, loss of life”. I’m not being melodramatic here. My career background is Aviation, flying fixed wing aircraft, rotor wing aircraft (helicopters), single engine, multi-engine, instrument flight, NOE (Nap of the Earth), Night Vision Goggles, private and commercial, etc, for 30+ years, as well as being an aircraft mechanic, Aviation Safety Officer, and Aircraft Accident Investigator. I did risk assessments all the time, both formal, and informal. It was a way of life, and in many respects it has translated over to boating as well.

Conclusions:

• Knowing what we knew prior to crossing into BDS, had we done a formal risk assessment, our decision to cross the bar with a pilot boat would still have been to cross.
• Knowing what we knew AFTER crossing the bar into BDS, had we done a formal risk assessment, our decision would have been NOT to cross the bar into BDS, even with the assistance of a pilot boat, instead, bypassing Bahia del Sol due to safety concerns.
• Once we had crossed the bar into BDS, our choices were limited, as we HAD to cross the bar outbound in order to continue our cruising life. We felt the risks were mitigated by doing the smart things, using a pilot boat, aborting the first exit attempt due to high surf, picking our window/bar conditions/tidal conditions, but if we had not already been inside the bar, we would not have intentionally chose to do the crossing again given the limited risk mitigation we had control over.
• If our boat drew 4’ or less, rather than the 5.5’ it does, our decision might well change, but apparently a catamaran, drawing only 3' is reported to have touched bottom several weeks ago, following the instructions of the pilot boat. Knowing what we know now, and given the mitigation efforts in effect up to time of the Rum Truffle loss, and the only mitigation efforts that BDS has stated it will be doing, I do not feel that the Bahia del Sol bar is safe for regular traffic drawing more than 4’.
• There is much institutional knowledge coming out now regarding how many boats have suffered damage or loss crossing the BDS bar, but it is as if that information, to this point, was intentional stifled.
• There is a serious lack of communication between the pilot boat and the boats being assisted in and out that needs to be addressed.
• We were never asked if we had any experience with any bar crossings, or BDS in particular. Communication between pilot boat and assisted boat in my opinion needs to be more like what happens when an aircraft is doing a GCA (Ground Control Approach). The aircraft is taking heading, altitude, and speed instructions from the Ground Controller. On final approach, the Ground Controller talks continuously to the aircraft, so that the aircraft knows that the line of communication is open. If there is a break in communication for, say 10 seconds, the aircraft assumes that communication is lost and executes a missed approach. A similar approach (no pun intended) is recommended for crossing the bar. The pilot boat should be in continuous communication with the assisted vessel, reassuring the assisted vessel that all is well. For us, there were multiple times when we weren’t sure whether we were still in communication, with our calls being unanswered by the pilot boat.
• Just because we made it over the BDS bar and back out again without damage or injury does not mean that we had made the right call. In retrospect, for Rum Truffle, even for the best of reasons it was the wrong call.

 

[mvweebles]

Great write-up and thanks for the new thread. A couple items:

1. Scot is an Iraq War era veteran helo pilot. The guy knows radio comms under stressful situations. He knows what good' looks like.

2. This was corroborated by several "Panama Posse" folks on a group call today who have been in/out of BDS in the past 60-days or so. The folks who are still there are stuck -- a few are really pissed off because there is no safe way for them to leave. One guy agrily said "Who the 'F' said this was a good idea?!?!?!"

3. In my opinion, a part of this is cultural. The Bar Pilot has probably never been more than 50-miles from this location and he makes $10/day. He simply cannot fathom the risk. Ancient Chinese saying: "You cannot tell a tadpole what it's like to be a frog."

4. The BDS hotel issued a fairly upfront accident report, but in my opinion, simply do not know what it will take to truly reduce risk to an acceptable level. Their solution is for the government to dredge. El Salvador dredging so a bunch of gringos with yachts can enter a hotel ain't happening. THey willl buy a $200 Humminbird depth sounder when they really need a $10k 3D Bottom Structure Imaging package like hi-end sports fishermen use to map the bottom. Sadly, if the did buy it, would probably be looted from the panga.

Bottom line: I cannot imagine a universe where it makes sense to enter Bahia del Sol. A shame since it appears to be a really cool place. DON'T DO IT.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

So I made the decision to go straight ahead, picking the point midway between the breaking waves and hoping for the best, as the decision that had the best chance of success. Apparently I guessed correctly, as we crossed the bar without further incident.

I was about to ask in the other thread if there was such a point between the breakers. That is the channel the pilot boat referred to. I have never been to such a location but have thought deeper water would have less breakers than shallow.

 

[Blissboat]

I was about to ask in the other thread if there was such a point between the breakers. That is the channel the pilot boat referred to. I have never been to such a location but have thought deeper water would have less breakers than shallow.

One would certainly think so, but I have been deceived by what appeared to be a narrowly localized absence of breaking swell over a line of shallows. The experience convinced me that there is no substitute for local knowledge, which is what pilots get paid for.

It seems Peter is right about BDS being effectively a "no-fly" zone.

 

[SteveK]

It seems Peter is right about BDS being effectively a "no-fly" zone.

I would certainly not cross first time in any seas with breakers without the benefit of a pilot. But the questions unanswered is whether Rum Truffle who was there before was following a pilot who knew the draft was 7 feet. That said Scott indicated they do not have a depth sounder??? If true where do they gain local knowledge other than a small shallow draft boat can get through.

 

[mvweebles]

Sea conditions were 2.6' swell. 12-13 knots wind. Accident occured at 1230pm in clear sunny weather.

Rum Truffle was absolutely under the guidance of the bar pilot. He hesitated based on boat in front of him but was urged by Bill to just go.....a decision I'm sure he regrets more than any other decision in his life. He was 10-mins away from a cold beer and chose wrong. For what it's worth, reports are that Bill apologized over the VHF profusely "I'm so sorry Mark ..... I'm so sorry."

Attached are pictures from Google Earth that are 1 year apart. Before moving to Florida I had no idea how much sand can move.

In my opinion. The bar pilot has no idea where the channel is and a catastrophy was imminent. Rum Truffle just happened to draw the short straw.

Peter

 

[Muirgen Afloat]

I was shocked listening to the Panama Posse call this morning of Long Windid's account on how cavalier the pilot response was to his getting stuck was and that after how badly he got stuck, that weren't concerned that Mark's boat that had a bigger draft would have been a bigger risk.

I just keep thinking what if it have been it had been a family with small children or pets? Would they have been prepared? Scot and I weren't even in PFDs. Should we have been.. YES! Thinking about it now, does everyone who crosses the BDS bar wear a PFD.. I'd like to know. It is not something that was ever mentioned. I know that there is a certain amount a risk with boat travel, but I really have to wonder if it's only a matter of time before there is a loss of life if there is not something major done or if people don't just avoid. Solution... I don't know.. but I'm heartsick. And the looting.. that makes me so sick.

Those pictures are very telling of the changes of the bar.

 

[BruceK]

I was shocked listening to the Panama Posse call this morning of Long Windid's account on how cavalier the pilot response was to his getting stuck was and that after how badly he got stuck, that weren't concerned that Mark's boat that had a bigger draft would have been a bigger risk.

I just keep thinking what if it have been it had been a family with small children or pets? Would they have been prepared? Scot and I weren't even in PFDs. Should we have been.. YES! Thinking about it now, does everyone who crosses the BDS bar wear a PFD.. I'd like to know. It is not something that was ever mentioned...

If nothing else comes out of this awful event the PFD discussion might help someone. In my state, NSW, Australia, it is a strict requirement of crossing a bar that everyone wear a PFD. Mostly it`s smaller boats <20ft going(returning after)fishing,often open types that regularly cross bars but it applies to all, as it should.

 

[Serene]

If nothing else comes out of this awful event the PFD discussion might help someone. In my state, NSW, Australia, it is a strict requirement of crossing a bar that everyone wear a PFD. Mostly it`s smaller boats <20ft going(returning after)fishing,often open types that regularly cross bars but it applies to all, as it should.

Same in QLD. It is mandatory for everybody in vessels < 4.8m to wear lifejackets when crossing a designated coastal bar, but it is encouraged for everybody to wear lifejackets no matter the size of the vessel.

Some good tips here;

https://www.msq.qld.gov.au/safety/crossing-a-bar

 

[heysteve]

Another factor can be the assumptions we make about motivations and skills of the actors in positions of authority. We often come from countries where pilot boat captains, firemen, police, etc. have all been highly trained and thus it's natural to put some level of trust in their decisions.

Our experience in Mexico is that it can be difficult to know who and at what level to trust advice. It's not that people have nefarious intent, indeed it's quite the opposite. People are often very interested in making you happy and sometimes have a hard time saying they don't know the answer or that you should not do something. Culturally they also tend to just roll with whatever happens and make the best of it.

 

[slowgoesit]

To our shame, and as my wife pointed out, we were NOT wearing our PFD's when we exited the BDS bar.

That was a very poor judgement call on our part. I do not admit it in order to point out what a bad decision we made, but in the hopes that others may learn from our poor decision.

When we crossed the bar inbound previously, we had on PFD's, all the windows/doors were shut, the cats were in their carriers and in the Pilot House with us. All loose gear stowed, etc. We got bounced around a little, but made it in with no damage.
I guess we got a little complacent on the departure. That is totally on us.

I was told by a Vietnam era Huey pilot that when you get shot down and crash, the adrenaline is in control, and after the big parts stop moving you leave the aircraft with only what you are wearing, not thinking about grabbing your weapon, a first aid kit, exposure gear, etc.

Same goes for boating. We all need to prepare for the worst in situations like this, and have the gear ready that we would want if the crap hits the fan. Lesson learned, or perhaps I should say, RE-learned. I'm sure we'll continue to make mistakes in our travels, but I don't think we'll be making THAT one again.

 

[mvweebles]

Another factor can be the assumptions we make about motivations and skills of the actors in positions of authority. We often come from countries where pilot boat captains, firemen, police, etc. have all been highly trained and thus it's natural to put some level of trust in their decisions.

Our experience in Mexico is that it can be difficult to know who and at what level to trust advice. It's not that people have nefarious intent, indeed it's quite the opposite. People are often very interested in making you happy and sometimes have a hard time saying they don't know the answer or that you should not do something. Culturally they also tend to just roll with whatever happens and make the best of it.

Well said. I tried to touch in this but words failed me.

I forget the details, but cultural norms have been studied as they pertain to airline accidents. I'm many countries, questioning the captains judgement - or even interjecting in the absence of a captains direction - has played a role in several fatal accidents. One such accident where a Malaysia airline ran out of fuel, the communications black box were studied. The co pilot used very passive language to try to budge the captain into recognizing the gravity of the situation. From memory, the captain accepted ground controls direction to circle again. Instead of pushing back when he knew they didn't have enough fuel, the co pilot said something like "do you think that's a good idea?"

I often hear boat owners say they aren't wealthy. But I'm here to tell you that even the most modest cruiser is wealthy by third world standards. I say this not because of the wealth disparity, but because it also points out that there is simply no way for people in many countries to understand the first thing about a cruising boat. It's an oddity. No idea how it works, how it stays upright, etc.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

To our shame, and as my wife pointed out in our other thread, we were NOT wearing our PFD's when we exited the BDS bar.

That was a very poor judgement call on our part. I do not admit it in order to point out what a bad decision we made, but in the hopes that others may learn from our poor decision.

When we crossed the bar inbound previously, we had on PFD's, all the windows/doors were shut, the cats were in their carriers and in the Pilot House with us. All loose gear stowed, etc. We got bounced around a little, but made it in with no damage.
I guess we got a little complacent on the departure. That is totally on us.

I was told by a Vietnam era Huey pilot that when you get shot down and crash, the adrenaline is in control, and after the big parts stop moving you leave the aircraft with only what you are wearing, not thinking about grabbing your weapon, a first aid kit, exposure gear, etc.

Same goes for boating. We all need to prepare for the worst in situations like this, and have the gear ready that we would want if the crap hits the fan. Lesson learned, or perhaps I should say, RE-learned. I'm sure we'll continue to make mistakes in our travels, but I don't think we'll be making THAT one again.

Every survival school or training I have been to would agree with your Huey pilot story.

I used the same moral of the story in my teaching...more often than not when thrust int o a survival situation...all you have to help you survive is on your person. It's one thing on land where you can scrounge for other tools... but like the USCG often suggests, that unless you are wearing your PFD, your chances of drowning in an incident goes up dramatically.

When I flew in the USCG...they were a PIA to fly in...but survival dry suits (when over even just cool water) and bulky survival vests were worn all the time.... maybe in some small way when things get tense...they are the security blanket that may help one remain calm when it is most important.

 

[rslifkin]

Based on the limited capability of the bar pilot, I'm left thinking this is somewhere between a "no-go" and "pilot yourself across". In calm enough weather given a capable dinghy with a depth sounder, I'd be inclined to anchor outside the bar, dinghy across and back to confirm there's a safe track across the bar, then following that track in.

Even that would be risky and many of us aren't equipped to do it, so the best answer is probably to just write BDS off as an option for anyone cruising through that area.

 

[mvweebles]

Anchoring and dinghying to verify depths works on paper. In truth, the window to do so - high water - is relatively short. Anchoring in an open stretch with no protection would be mildly difficult - and then the dink has to be launched, boarded, and retrieved.

I mentioned in another post that there was an inlet south of Mazatlan that was suggested by Guillermo, the owner of the Ensenada boatyard where Weebles was refit. He remembered going there when he was a kid. The satellite photos looked interesting. Clearly there are pangas that fish our of the village. But there are no detailed charts and no cruising notes from prior cruisers. If we were trying to aurhor a cruising guide, we'd have to launch a dink to explore. And there were other such landings that looked viable but had zero information on them. I cannot tell you how many times I've muttered to myself "someone has to post the first review. Why not me?".

In a few days we'll head towards Chiapas - 225 miles straight across the bay of Tehuantepec or 250 around the rim. We'll take the rim beach route. Would be great to stop and anchor along the way. But the chart data we have is vague. Here's a hook of land off Navionics that might be a candidate for protection from SSW swells wich are common. But what do you do with this information? What about that spec I've highlighted? It's a basis for reconnaisance but not for anchoring. Too bad.

Fairly common around here. To circle back to OP, it's why a pilot boat with local knowledge is attractive but obviously requires guardrails in how the information is used. Just because it worked for someone yesterday doesn't mean it will work for you today.

Peter

 

[FWT]

Wow. Heck of a story.

Question: easy to say from the armchair, but once the pilot proved worthless (first clue was when he failed to lead) is it not better to totally tune out anything he said / says? IE, mentally acknowledge that you know you do not know.

A point: Another option might have been to return to port when the pilot failed to do his job. Make arrangements for a buddy boat group exit. Place the shallowest draft boat in the lead who can radio soundings to the followers who are progressively deeper. Leave the worthless pilot out of it. People wait for conditions to make the crossing to the Bahamas, so the group waits until conditions are deemed optimal.

 

[SteveK]

@FWT
What you say sounds good in theory and may work.
The only comparison I can make to a bar crossing is when I was moored in the tributary of the Fraser south of the Westham Island bridge. Canoe pass was a shortcut to the Gulf Islands and saved time/distance and avoided fighting the Fraser river uphill current.

BUT, canoe pass, once marked with Dolphins (still there) no longer marks a channel. In fact the channel meanders every year and mud flats on either side for a few miles. Local knowledge gained by early spring dingy flotilla at lowest tide re-mapped the channel for those of us that dared to venture.

So a local paid pilot on the bar should have done the same and not just hoped for the best.

 

[AlaskaProf]

I was told by a Vietnam era Huey pilot that when you get shot down and crash, the adrenaline is in control, and after the big parts stop moving you leave the aircraft with only what you are wearing, not thinking about grabbing your weapon, a first aid kit, exposure gear,

Shortly after I arrived in Alaska, a colleague told me: "Survival gear is what you have in your pockets; that stuff in the back of the aircraft...that is camping equipment."


For the subsequent 20 years of aviating, I, and passengers, wore multi-pocketed vests.

 

[Osprey69]

Perhaps this is the New York cynicism coming out in me...but I cant help thinking the "pilot" was in on the resulting booty.

Variation of the old lighthouse "light", that was not, to encourage shipwrecks.

Sad and vile if it were so. Hope not, but...

 

[Crusty Chief]

Having crossed this particular bar a few years back, I can vouch for the hairy ride in and out of this area. Not sure if the Pilot was Bill or not. When we crossed into the bay, Bill escorted one boat at a time but was adamant that we be ready when our turn was up as the window at high tide was a short one. Five boats all entered and we were the last. We had to stay inside for almost 4 weeks until a safe window for exit came. We were very diligent on weather and waited until the comfort factor hit us.
This time bill took us all out (4 boats) and again we were the last to exit. Going out was in my opinion a more daunting task and we had a pretty hairy ride. We saw less than 18 inches under our keel twice. The other boats didnt see those low numbers, or at least didnt admit to seeing them.

This bar crossing is like no other we had made and probably would not do it again also. Unfortunately, at the time we really didnt have many options as Covid was upon us at the time and El Salvador was the only open port south of Mexico, before Costa Rica. A couple of boats did make it into Nicaragua, but we were not able to enter.

This part of the trip was not what we had hoped for. We did the best we could during the Covid duration.

I hope that this incident causes us all to become more aware of our own capabilities.

 

[slowgoesit]

On 11 March, we participated in a Panama Posse sponsored line call in which the Bahia del Sol Bar situation was discussed.
Among other things discussed, Dietmar (the head guy of Panama Posse) solicited questions from the attendees to be presented to Bill for clarification/answers.

Among other questions, the following question was asked of Bill:

How many vessels hit the ground each season? Has this been a continual problem?

Bill's response was. "During a recorded 585 bar crossings there are four instances of touching bottom, Rum Truffle not withstanding."

Discussion: Around the time we were in Bahia del Sol the following boats struck the bar:

Fact: Coming into the bar, Long Windid, drawing 6' hit bottom multiple times on 6 March, broaching, and laying over 90 degrees (spreader in the water). (Bill personally witnessed this)

Fact: Coming into the bar, Rum Truffle, on 6 March hit the bar, broached, and sunk. (Bill personally witnessed this)

Fact: Coming into the bar, SV Karuna, a 42? foot sailing vessel, drawing I believe, 6' struck the bar, on or about 26 February 2024. (Bill was informed of this)

Fact: I had personal discussions with two boat owners at Hotel Bahia del Sol Marina, who stated that they had "touched bottom" coming into the bar recently (within the past two months). Both were sailboats. (I am unsure if Bill was informed of this or not).

Above are 5 (FIVE) boats that are known to me that have struck the Bahia del Sol bar just within the past 90 days.

Bill, who owns a mooring field in Bahia del Sol catering to cruisers, has the pulse of all comings and goings in and out of Bahia del Sol, with a spreadsheet listing all the vessels, times of entrance/departure, bar conditions, photos, etc, once again, in responding to the question:

How many vessels hit the ground each season? Has this been a continual problem?

Stated:

"During a recorded 585 bar crossings there are four instances of touching bottom, Rum Truffle not withstanding."

I will let you draw your own conclusions.

 

[mvweebles]

On 11 March, we participated in a Panama Posse sponsored line call in which the Bahia del Sol Bar situation was discussed.
Among other things discussed, Dietmar (the head guy of Panama Posse) solicited questions from the attendees to be presented to Bill for clarification/answers.

Among other questions, the following question was asked of Bill:

How many vessels hit the ground each season? Has this been a continual problem?

Bill's response was. "During a recorded 585 bar crossings there are four instances of touching bottom, Rum Truffle not withstanding."

Discussion: Around the time we were in Bahia del Sol the following boats struck the bar:

Fact: Coming into the bar, Long Windid, drawing 6' hit bottom multiple times on 6 March, broaching, and laying over 90 degrees (spreader in the water). (Bill personally witnessed this)

Fact: Coming into the bar, Rum Truffle, on 6 March hit the bar, broached, and sunk. (Bill personally witnessed this)

Fact: Coming into the bar, SV Karuna, a 42? foot sailing vessel, drawing I believe, 6' struck the bar, on or about 26 February 2024. (Bill was informed of this)

Fact: I had personal discussions with two boat owners at Hotel Bahia del Sol Marina, who stated that they had "touched bottom" coming into the bar recently (within the past two months). Both were sailboats. (I am unsure if Bill was informed of this or not).

Above are 5 (FIVE) boats that are known to me that have struck the Bahia del Sol bar just within the past 90 days.

Bill, who owns a mooring field in Bahia del Sol catering to cruisers, has the pulse of all comings and goings in and out of Bahia del Sol, with a spreadsheet listing all the vessels, times of entrance/departure, bar conditions, photos, etc, once again, in responding to the question:

How many vessels hit the ground each season? Has this been a continual problem?

Stated:

"During a recorded 585 bar crossings there are four instances of touching bottom, Rum Truffle not withstanding."

I will let you draw your own conclusions.

Caught my eye too Scot. I too was on the call and counted what seemed like at least four groundings in the last several weeks alone so the response was not credible to my eyes either. Also that in Bill's Facebook post he referenced that majority of 1400 boats crossed the bar without incident. I cannot reconcile that number with 585 bar crossings.

In all candor, makes no difference to us. Crossing a bar in a boat that is incapable of matching the speed of the waves carries serious risk of broach. This is liesure time for us and want no part of broach or grounding.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

It’s all very sobering. Glad slowgoesit made it through OK

 

[mvweebles]

On the Panama Posse call Scot references, the two boats before Rum Truffle recounted the VHF conversation as the incident unfolded - broke my heart. When Boat #2 broached and then grounded hard, Bill urged them to be patient - the next wave would lift them clear which it did. When #3 - Rum Truffle - expressed concern, Bill said something to the effect that there should be no issue but if there was, a second wave would lift him free.

My thinking is that Bill just doesn't consider broaches and temporary groundings to be serious. Certainly makes you wonder what the heck happened to the 4 of the 585. If so, my guess is there are a LOT of people in the 581 such as Boat #2 above who were terrified. I'm sure they'd be stunned to learn they didn't make the cut into the category of problem-entrance.

This is the problem with self-reported statistics - asking the fox to count eggs in the henhouse.

Peter

 

[ksanders]

Scott, Thanks very much for the information.

If we decide to travel south we will plan on having enough fuel reserves to not need to enter Bahia Del Sol.

Question... What kind of range do we need if one plans to go around Bahia Del Sol?

Also the idea of a lifejacket on a boat you live on. My opinion is if I feel the need for a life preserver I have made a error in judgement, and assumed excessive risk. My job is to keep Vicky out of harms way, not put her/us in a position where we might loose our home.

You mede a good decision with the information you had at the time. The things you have learned change the validity of that decision for future cruisers.

 

[slowgoesit]

Kevin, Diesel is available in Chiapas, MX. Then Bahia del Sol, but if don't enter, then the next available would probably be in Costa Rica, so I'd say roughly 500 mile range with a reserve.

 

[mvweebles]

Kevin - we will be stopping in Barilles which is in a different bay - should be under 300 nms from Chiapas. There is no bar to cross, but there I believe s pilot is recommended to navigate a poorly marked channel. Active Captain shows a fuel dock there, but would certain verify with hotel beforehand. Note that until 15 years ago, Barilles was the favored cruisers hangout before BDS came along. Nice resort pool.

https://www.puertobarillas.com/welcome/services/

Next stop would be Puesta del Sol, Nicaragua. I don't know if they have a fuel dock but they could get you fuel in 10-gal jugs from the gas station (likely better quality than fuel dock anyway). Or you could hop to Costa Rica which is about 260 nms from BDS, closer to Barilles.

There's a Viking 43 here in the marina. Yacht world shows they carry 350 gals diesel which isn't much, but it for here from Canada somehow.

If you guys just want to dip your toes into Mexico best "marina" cruising (vs remote SoC), La Paz to Mazatlan to Banderas Bay is a lot of fun. Would be a great 3-4 month cruise. Barra de Navidad was a highlight.

Peter

 

[ksanders]

Thanks Scott and Peter!

 

[Insequent]

Something I have not seen discussed so far is the tidal range. Attached is the chart for La Libertad, likely to be quite similar to Bahia del Sol. On inspection you will see that high tide on 13 Mar at 5:09PM IS 2.5M. A week later, 20 Mar high is at 11:26am and is 1.5m.

So, with a 1m variation in the highs you really need to know where you are in the tide cycle. Just picking the day's high is not sufficient for planning. That 1m difference could mean touching bottom, or not.

https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/La-Libertad/tides/latest

 

[slowgoesit]

Brian, absolutely! And good information to know!

Something I have not seen discussed so far is the tidal range. Attached is the chart for La Libertad, likely to be quite similar to Bahia del Sol. On inspection you will see that high tide on 13 Mar at 5:09PM IS 2.5M. A week later, 20 Mar high is at 11:26am and is 1.5m.

So, with a 1m variation in the highs you really need to know where you are in the tide cycle. Just picking the day's high is not sufficient for planning. That 1m difference could mean touching bottom, or not.

https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/La-Libertad/tides/latest