frequent and very short pump activation

[paulga]

since last night I heard some very short pump activation. I thought it is a pump but not sure. it has become more frequent today, every now and then i would hear something is activated, followed by very short flushing sound. it can be heard from both the galley and aft cabin, it sounds closer to the galley.

there is a sump pump in the forward bilge. but I didn't see any motion in the sump pump when the flushing sounds activated. what other pumps or devices are there in the forward bilge that can be activated now and then?

the only change from before is I changed the fuel filters (3 racor and 2 spin-on), tested run the engine for 1 hour yesterday.

 

[Blissboat]

Could it be that the fresh water pump is cycling periodically owing to a slow loss of pressure?

 

[paulga]

Could it be that the fresh water pump is cycling periodically owing to a slow loss of pressure?

fw pump didn't activate so frequently like once per 10 minutes or so before.

is the low pressure due to low water level in the tank?

I cannot see the water level, but there are still about 5 days before the next fill up is due.

 

[PhilPB]

I had a very similar issue and it was related the freshwater pump short cycling. My problem was due to a very small leak in a fitting.

 

[PhilPB]

If I recall correctly, you were working with the galley faucet. I'd start there. Look at all connections you touched in any fashion.

 

[SteveK]

I am with Phil, or you can turn off power to the pump and see if the cycling stops.

 

[paulga]

I continued to hear the short activation after I switched off the fw pump

Maybe it's the bilge pump that is between the engine front and the bulkhead.

 

[paulga]

If I recall correctly, you were working with the galley faucet. I'd start there. Look at all connections you touched in any fashion.

I have not started repairing the faucet yet. It's not a major issue. It doesn't leak for normal daily use.

 

[TJM]

Fresh water pumps (some, not all) cycle or energize when they sense a drop in pressure on their outlet side. This pressure drop may be caused by a few different ways. Opening a faucet, or as has been said, a small leak in any of the fittings in the water delivery path, pressurized side.

Low tank water volume will not cause the pump to cycle, but will cause the pump to NOT SHUT off because sucking air from the tank will not satisfy the pressure sensor to shut the pump off.

FYI, when buying a new pump you need to understand the complete system and which pump to buy. Some have pressure sensors in them for faucets and others turn on and off with an external switch.
Knowledge is POWER.

 

[Don L]

Besides a leak, freshwater pumps get something in the check valves kind of regular. When they do the pressure slowly blows back into the tank till it drops enough to cycle the pump.

The way I have found to fix it is to clean the suction strainer. Then open a bunch of facets and blast water through the pump to try and flush it out. If that doesn't work the next step that has now worked for me for 3 years is to order a new pump and while you wait it to arrange the pump will just fix itself and go away.

 

[paulga]

thanks for your inputs.
the f.w. pump has been switched off.
but the short activation continues.
i lifted the galley stairs to watch. it's the bilge pump that has been cycling on very briefly and off without a set interval.
it would be on for only a split second, water level drops, then pump off and water rises again

It is the first time to behave this way since late October

 

[Delta Riverat]

Sounds like the float is stuck or has debris under it. Turns on and pushes water up the hose then shuts off but doesn't return to "home" position. Generally they pump out at least an inch of water per cycle.

If you can run pump manual then turn it on until the pumps sucks air.

 

[paulga]

it was the yellow sludge. i picked it up and problem solved. The float returned to its base position.

if my arm is long enough, I'd scoop all the crap like sludge from the bottom. some other thin debris were sucked by the pump when i reached under the float, hopefully they are already pushed out of the through hull rather than stuck somewhere.

Sounds like the float is stuck or has debris under it. Turns on and pushes water up the hose then shuts off but doesn't return to "home" position. Generally they pump out at least an inch of water per cycle.

If you can run pump manual then turn it on until the pumps sucks air.

 

[SeaDogAK]

In my boat, the yellow sludge was grungy old emulsified oil. It will gum up your float valve and pump filter. A combination of Dawn, lots of fresh water, a scrub brush, and oil removing pads might get rid of it.

 

[paulga]

Thanks for all your inputs
i never came across a boat related problem that resolved so fast

 

[PhilPB]

it was the yellow sludge. i picked it up and problem solved. The float returned to its base position.

if my arm is long enough, I'd scoop all the crap like sludge from the bottom. some other thin debris were sucked by the pump when i reached under the float, hopefully they are already pushed out of the through hull rather than stuck somewhere.

Use a shopvac with an extension. Great for cleaning lots of goop in the bilge. Just dispose of waste responsibly

 

[paulga]

does the "home" position means were the float completely closed?

I just heard the short flushing again , not as frequent as earlier to make me alarmed. as I checked again but didn't feel anything under the float. the float seems to maintain a distance away from its bottom base

Sounds like the float is stuck or has debris under it. Turns on and pushes water up the hose then shuts off but doesn't return to "home" position. Generally they pump out at least an inch of water per cycle.

If you can run pump manual then turn it on until the pumps sucks air.

 

[paulga]

well, i celebrated too early. bilge pump is still doing the short cycling.
what could have gone wrong?

 

[OldDan1943]

I have a bilge pump counter panel. Keeps me informe when I return to the boat after an absence.
I also have a separate high water alarm for each separate bilge area.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Here's another good advice.

Most of the float switches suck. They used to work well when they were mercury switches, but the mechanical switches of late are a problem.

There is one good float switch available (only one I use) and it's expensive. More expensive than the pump.

The other I use and like even more is the "air bell" type. Works on air pressure caused by rising water, no mechanical stuff in the drink.

 

[tpbrady]

My engine pump will short cycle like that when I service some raw water components or drain the hot water heater. It will pump down to level where the float switch shuts off and the residual water in the hose to the overboard flows back into the bilge and triggers the float again. There is literally a wave moving back and forth in the bilge activating the float switch when it passes. I could put a n antisiphon in the hose but it also is resolved by manually turning on the pump for a minute or so allowing more water to reach the overboard.

Tom

 

[SteveK]

well, i celebrated too early. bilge pump is still doing the short cycling.
what could have gone wrong?

I will suggest you pull the float switch up so the pump starts, but hold it up for twice or more as long as the short cycles you are hearing.

Recently I replaced a pump that would run and then stop running even tough I held the switch up. I was testing to find out why the bilge was not as dry as it could be.

If your pump stops too, replace it

 

[PhilPB]

Here's another good advice.

Most of the float switches suck. They used to work well when they were mercury switches, but the mechanical switches of late are a problem.

There is one good float switch available (only one I use) and it's expensive. More expensive than the pump.

The other I use and like even more is the "air bell" type. Works on air pressure caused by rising water, no mechanical stuff in the drink.

Sounds interesting. What brand/model are these?

 

[SteveK]

Sounds interesting. What brand/model are these?

Did you know links are embedded in his post to the pumps?

 

[paulga]

I added a few drops of dish soap. the short cycling reduced frequency but didn't stop completely.

one post from my online search sounds a similar syndrome. one advice given is

"some of them that use electrodes to sense water can be confused by oil or slime on the sensors. Pull them out and clean up the intakes and sensors and see"

"Unsnap it from the base and wipe the inside of the pocket underneath"

the model number is Rule 40A. In my picture, there is a float, a cylinder thing and a Rule 40A box. I guess the one that has the intake and sensor (and the reset button?) is the cylinder. how to unsnap it from its base?

 

[luna]

Did you know links are embedded in his post to the pumps?

No, I did not. What pumps are linked in his post?

paulga.

Try this. Take your 1 cup measuring cup, a bucket and sponge and remove all of the water from the bilge. All of it. Then dry the bilge with some paper or cloth towels.

Take some pictures and post them.

Hopefully from there someone can advise you on how to remove the "cylinder thing", which I can only conclude is the pump (which is unlikely to have a sensor or reset button) and also comment as to what the 1 1/2" +/- hose and the 3/8"+/- clear hose are doing in the bilge.

 

[paulga]

using a sponge and bucket to dry the pit is impossible, as i just tested, I cannot even reach the base of the float

the float and cylinder were installed on a plastic base that rest on bottom of the pit. i just tested the float again, it triggers the pump to run continuously. and whole assembly can be lifted out of the water level

since the pump is float activated, it should not have a sensor, correct?

No, I did not. What pumps are linked in his post?

paulga.

Try this. Take your 1 cup measuring cup, a bucket and sponge and remove all of the water from the bilge. All of it. Then dry the bilge with some paper or cloth towels.

Take some pictures and post them.

Hopefully from there someone can advise you on how to remove the "cylinder thing", which I can only conclude is the pump (which is unlikely to have a sensor or reset button) and also comment as to what the 1 1/2" +/- hose and the 3/8"+/- clear hose are doing in the bilge.

 

[BruceK]

The "float activator' is the switch to operate the pump in the presence of water. "Best switch" is akin to discussing anchors but types with no external moving parts are often favored, eg the Johnson Ultima. It`s the moving parts of the "flipper" type switches like you have which I think cause trouble.
https://chsmith.com.au/Products/Ultima-Switch.html?gad_source=1

 

[SeaDogAK]

If cleaning all the gunk out doesn’t fix the problem, I’m thinking you need to mount the float switch a little bit higher. You could put some kind of spacer under it; I used a piece of an old plastic cutting board to raise mine up 3/4 inch or so. That will allow a little bit of water to build up before the pump comes on, which should eliminate the rapid cycling.

 

[SteveK]

Here's another good advice.

Most of the float switches suck. They used to work well when they were mercury switches, but the mechanical switches of late are a problem.

There is one good float switch available (only one I use) and it's expensive. More expensive than the pump.

The other I use and like even more is the "air bell" type. Works on air pressure caused by rising water, no mechanical stuff in the drink.

For those that do not know about embedded links click on the red highlighted. Notice in the post it is also underlined.