forward looking depth sounders again

[ofer]

looking for a reasonably priced solution for checking structure ahead of the boat while anchoring etc.

there seems to be new advancements specifically with

https://www.lowrance.com/lowrance/type/sonar-transducers/activetarget/
in scout mode.

transducer may be lowered down and pointed forward as needed via a yet to be designed gadget

Any thoughts?

 

[Cigatoo]

A buddy has a Raymarine fwd looking sonar. Maybe a year or two old now. Pretty impressive. Could see lobster pots / traps on the bottom.

 

[bowball]

How useful for navigation though? The problem I would think is the shallower the water the less forward looking it can be.

Hummingbird has a nice reputation.

 

[ScottC]

A buddy has a Raymarine fwd looking sonar. Maybe a year or two old now. Pretty impressive. Could see lobster pots / traps on the bottom.

Raymarine?! I would love to know the name/model of this. I know they have a side-view...but have not yet heard about a forward-view from them.

 

[murofrelwart]

looking for a reasonably priced solution for checking structure ahead of the boat while anchoring etc.

there seems to be new advancements specifically with

https://www.lowrance.com/lowrance/type/sonar-transducers/activetarget/
in scout mode.

transducer may be lowered down and pointed forward as needed via a yet to be designed gadget

Any thoughts?

I installed the Garmin Panoptix FrontVu forward looking sonar last summer for this very purpose. I am very pleased with the performance - it works as intended.

 

[ofer]

How useful for navigation though? The problem I would think is the shallower the water the less forward looking it can be.

Hummingbird has a nice reputation.

the transducer is actually mounted in such a way that it looks forward not downward ..in scout mode.

 

[bowball]

I installed the Garmin Panoptix FrontVu forward looking sonar last summer for this very purpose. I am very pleased with the performance - it works as intended.

I would install one too if I was Garmin equipped. Having said that, users report a 4 to 5x times depth forward view (I know Garmin says 7-8x) which means poking around in 8’ waters at moorage is 32’ to 40’ ahead less offset from bow … so good I assume at 1 or 2knt moorage discovery…??

 

[AnsleyS]

We installed the Garmin forward scan and I am pleased so far. It takes a lot of practice to interpret the return shown on the screen to what is there. I am now able to watch my anchor, chain and snubber as they are deployed and recovered. I can find rocks and navigate small channels where I probably should not be.

 

[Cigatoo]

Raymarine?! I would love to know the name/model of this. I know they have a side-view...but have not yet heard about a forward-view from them.

You've got me on that. I'll check with him. It might have been side view. I didn't know there was a difference. Stand by.

 

[murofrelwart]

I would install one too if I was Garmin equipped. Having said that, users report a 4 to 5x times depth forward view (I know Garmin says 7-8x) which means poking around in 8’ waters at moorage is 32’ to 40’ ahead less offset from bow … so good I assume at 1 or 2knt moorage discovery…??

I'm usually in deeper water, i.e. 25' depth but worried about the 5' shelf or rock that may be in front of me.

 

[LovetoBoat]

I am still missing the point of Forward Looking - I may also be overly cautious with my boat. With an up to date chart or download of areas why would you want to squeeze into an area that is hazardous to your boat and littered with obstacles where you needed that technology? If the wind blows or the tide is exceptionally low are you not asking for trouble?


Is this for new areas that you are unfamiliar with or you need to scrape the bottom of your hull to keep the boat from sinking? I may be slow today but I don/t see the use part of this technology. With a much smaller boat I have pushed the limits and with an I/O I could get away with some shenanigans but with Rocks and such I am very much afraid of shallow water.

 

[Cigatoo]

Raymarine?! I would love to know the name/model of this. I know they have a side-view...but have not yet heard about a forward-view from them.

It’s an Axiom Multi purpose display. Has both side and forward scan.

 

[ScottC]

It’s an Axiom Multi purpose display. Has both side and forward scan.

Thank you Cigatoo.
I looked into this further on Raymarine's site. It talks about Side Vision and Down Vision. I can't find anything about "forward". If your friend has a "Side Vision" transducer mounted such that it's pointing forward...and that works for him, I would find that to be very interesting. Do you know if that's how he achieved "forward looking"?

 

[mvweebles]

I am still missing the point of Forward Looking - I may also be overly cautious with my boat. With an up to date chart or download of areas why would you want to squeeze into an area that is hazardous to your boat and littered with obstacles where you needed that technology?

Charted hydrographic data is not as accurate as portrayed on chart plotters. There are known limitations as described in this NOAA circular:

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/updates/how-accurate-are-nautical-charts/

Just yesterday a TF member coined the term "Screen Hypnosis" which to me is an over-reliance on chart plotter data. One of the few remaining benefits of paper or raster scans is you know when they are over-zoomed. ENCs mask the condition by scaling the data. It looks much more accurate than it is.

I have personally watched three owners run aground (softly) as they followed their chart plotter instead of observing their surroundings for obvious shoaling. One, a scientist type, did it again not 48-hours later

Peter

 

[bowball]

Charted hydrographic data is not as accurate as portrayed on chart plotters. There are known limitations as described in this NOAA circular:

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/updates/how-accurate-are-nautical-charts/

Just yesterday a TF member coined the term "Screen Hypnosis" which to me is an over-reliance on chart plotter data. One of the few remaining benefits of paper or raster scans is you know when they are over-zoomed. ENCs mask the condition by scaling the data. It looks much more accurate than it is.

I have personally watched three owners run aground (softly) as they followed their chart plotter instead of observing their surroundings for obvious shoaling. One, a scientist type, did it again not 48-hours later

Peter

And the same focus on forward looking transducer data in order to have adequate reaction times versus looking out

One use that made sense to me was for uncharted coral heads in coves when anchoring.

 

[ScottC]

Just yesterday a TF member coined the term "Screen Hypnosis"
Peter

A term that I've heard here, in connection with some boating accidents, is when somebody's "driving the plotter" (instead of looking ahead, out the window).

 

[ScottC]

One use that made sense to me was for uncharted coral heads in coves when anchoring.

That's what I want to use it for. Approaching unfamiliar and possibly poorly-charted anchorages...though coral is nothing I have to worry about ;-)

 

[catalinajack]

That's what I want to use it for. Approaching unfamiliar and possibly poorly-charted anchorages...though coral is nothing I have to worry about ;-)

The very limited distance you can see forward makes this product pretty much useless for this purpose. You simply cannot see far enough ahead while moving forward even at dead slow. I wasted my money on one.

 

[twistedtree]

The very limited distance you can see forward makes this product pretty much useless for this purpose. You simply cannot see far enough ahead while moving forward even at dead slow. I wasted my money on one.

This has historically been the complaint, but we have a bunch of people here saying they have one and like it. For those who have one, do you use it for exploring poorly charted areas? How fast can you go, and by the time you see an obstruction, can you stop in time?


1-2 kts is pretty slow to explore with the sonar. Heck, typical anchor chain deployment is at 1/2 kt, so you are barely going faster that you can pay out your anchor chain.


So I guess the question really is who's using it for exploring uncharted waters and what are the practical limitations on its use?

 

[Simi 60]

Ours still has the transducer and black box for an interphase
Apparently not worth **** so says the PO
Didn't work over about 3 knots and we do 5 clicked in gear.

But that was a first gen type of device.

 

[Simi 60]

.


So I guess the question really is who's using it for exploring uncharted waters and what are the practical limitations on its use?

That's me waiting for the cheap sounder plotter for the tender that I can pull the SD card from and transfer kml files or the like to OpenCPN

Without needing interwebs to to it

 

[FWT]

The very limited distance you can see forward makes this product pretty much useless for this purpose. You simply cannot see far enough ahead while moving forward even at dead slow. I wasted my money on one.

Useful insight. Thanks for this. I gather the issue might be in Chesapeake coves / anchorages the issue is in waters that are shallow but acceptable (hence short range view forward) vs too shallow to anchor? Which is a different use case in waters where one might want to scan for rocks and coral heads.

 

[rslifkin]

This has historically been the complaint, but we have a bunch of people here saying they have one and like it. For those who have one, do you use it for exploring poorly charted areas? How fast can you go, and by the time you see an obstruction, can you stop in time?


1-2 kts is pretty slow to explore with the sonar. Heck, typical anchor chain deployment is at 1/2 kt, so you are barely going faster that you can pay out your anchor chain.


So I guess the question really is who's using it for exploring uncharted waters and what are the practical limitations on its use?

I agree with only having stopping distance warning for 1 - 2 kts being pretty useless. That would work for creeping a short distance into somewhere, but not for anything more or in windy conditions on my boat at least (does just over 4 kts idling in gear, 2.5 - 3 with 1 engine in gear).

 

[FWT]

Let me spin the OP question just a bit. I don't think this is a hijack but just another angle to view the question.

Instead of the question: forward scan, yes or no? If one has a budget to add in a transducer capability going beyond simple depth, WHICH sort of capability gives the most bang for the buck? 1) forward scan, 2) a transducer that allows for building your own detailed bathy charts? 3) Other?

Answers might well depend on the nature of the user's waters, so answers that include that would be useful to interpret. Its the "why" of it that matters.

 

[SteveK]

I agree with only having stopping distance warning for 1 - 2 kts being pretty useless. That would work for creeping a short distance into somewhere, but not for anything more or in windy conditions on my boat at least (does just over 4 kts idling in gear, 2.5 - 3 with 1 engine in gear).

Well that says it well, forward looking will not be on the shopping list.
At 1-2 knots my depth sounder will paint a picture of the bottom I pass over.
With a four foot draft if I hot bottom then I was not paying attention.
Calm water is clear enough to see 4 foot depth around here, and rough water will show a rock below surface.
I am left wondering how this helps those that have it, so will keep reading this topic.

 

[rslifkin]

Well that says it well, forward looking will not be on the shopping list.
At 1-2 knots my depth sounder will paint a picture of the bottom I pass over.
With a four foot draft if I hot bottom then I was not paying attention.
Calm water is clear enough to see 4 foot depth around here, and rough water will show a rock below surface.
I am left wondering how this helps those that have it, so will keep reading this topic.

The one time I think I'd find it useful, even with a limited range is when there's a known shoaled area in a channel, but the exact extent of the shoaling and/or whether the bottom is clean or may have high spots is unknown. As long as it's a short bad spot, you could creep through slowly enough. But it would have to be a pretty short distance if going that slow is required.

 

[catalinajack]

The one time I think I'd find it useful, even with a limited range is when there's a known shoaled area in a channel, but the exact extent of the shoaling and/or whether the bottom is clean or may have high spots is unknown. As long as it's a short bad spot, you could creep through slowly enough. But it would have to be a pretty short distance if going that slow is required.

That is exactly what I do hen entering Leeds Creek off the Miles River across from St. Michaels, MD. There is about 500 feet of 6-foot depths before it opens up to deeper water and great anchoring. I have a first-gen Simrad. Don't use it cuz I can't stop in timeanyway even going dead slow. Although I do not know for certain about other brands or newer-gen transducers but the physics says they cannot see any further than what I have. As for seeing rocks and coral heads, the challenges are no different. Still, no harm in choosing one if it meets other parameters as to functionality. Cost may be a consideration also.

 

[Seevee]

That Lowrance sonar looks interesting, but need more info and more reviews from folks that have it. The pictures don't look that clear to me and hard to tell much.


And, they're catering to the fishing crowd, not the "don't want to hit something" crowd.



I had the Simrad Forward Scan and it was a POS... didn't work well at all. Looked at the Panoptix and the Forward Scan Platinum 2D Engine. The jury is still out.

 

[bowball]

I’ve heard they are fun to use to watch your anchor come up!

 

[Goingplaces]

I am about to install a Garmin PS51-TH. I had to wait almost a year for it. I will let you know how it goes!