Ever Forward
- Thread starter High Wire
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
backinblue
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Just reading the news reports. Wondering why removing the cargo containers was a "last resort". I'm sure I'm missing something, but seems like an obvious first choice to me. Not saying it's easy, but still...
OP
OP
High Wire
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rslifkin
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Probably the practicality of getting equipment in there to unload, shallower draft equipment that can transport the containers, etc. And then having to take the containers somewhere, get the ship there, and re-load the containers (or otherwise get them to their destinations). If they could have gotten the ship off without that, it likely would have been simpler. Just extract the ship, inspect, and if all is good, send it on to the next port.
backinblue
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OK, I get it , maybe not the first choice, but after a month?
Blissboat
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All of that, plus:
1) The weight of each container is different, which dictates the placement of each box and its loading / unloading schedule. The weights are factored against the ship's capacity to withstand the stresses of unevenly placed weight throughout its length. Removing containers relocates the stress, and so each removal had to be considered against the hull's capacity to withstand torque in multiple directions.
2) Fuel, ballast and other more easily removed weight had already been off-loaded in an attempt to reduce the vessel's draft. That raised her center of gravity, potentially destabilizing her. Anticipating her behavior once floated-off was already a challenge - removing selected containers made her stability even harder to predict. Wind predictions, turning moments and weight distribution all go into a container ship's loading plan, and this episode threw the load management plan out the window.
psneeld
Guru
Plus, often there is not the equipment just sitting around ready to go.
Many salvage operations not only wait for chain of command delays but also equipment, manning and funding delays.
Many companies will not move equipment for a non emergency salvage without a contract and/or partial funding up front.
Many salvage operations not only wait for chain of command delays but also equipment, manning and funding delays.
Many companies will not move equipment for a non emergency salvage without a contract and/or partial funding up front.
Flatswing
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The problem was finding equipment that was high enough to remove the containers
AlaskaProf
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"...on advice of counsel.."
What a great post Blissboat. 99% of the worlds population give naught a thought to how things work in the real world while they are having a schlitz fit over their latest war game being late.
Thank you.
Cigatoo
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johnrupp
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A good article on incident.
https://gcaptain.com/ever-forward-s...169958529&mc_cid=3c0e5dd04f&mc_eid=ad6153f18a
John
https://gcaptain.com/ever-forward-s...169958529&mc_cid=3c0e5dd04f&mc_eid=ad6153f18a
John
arthurn
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I always thought a local pilot on the ship was responsible for navigating these ships while in the Chesapeake Bay. If so, that pilot should have knowledge about where the deep water channel is.
Endeavor GB 32
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Jones Act?
The article above, as well as other articles I have read, say that the Ever Forward was departing Baltimore bound for Norfolk. I always thought that the Jones Act restricted shipping between two US ports to ships built, owned, and operated by US citizens. It certainly appears that the Ever Forward meets none of those qualifications. I must be mistaken, or there is more to the story.
Scott
The article above, as well as other articles I have read, say that the Ever Forward was departing Baltimore bound for Norfolk. I always thought that the Jones Act restricted shipping between two US ports to ships built, owned, and operated by US citizens. It certainly appears that the Ever Forward meets none of those qualifications. I must be mistaken, or there is more to the story.
Scott
Blissboat
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Correct. The Association of Maryland Pilots has jurisdiction in these waters, and its member pilots know where deep water is. The cause of this grounding hasn't yet been announced, but weather seems not to have been a factor. Pilot error is possible - they are human, after all. It will likely be found to have resulted from some kind (or combination) of an equipment casualty.
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twistedtree
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I don't know who screwed up, but the channel is well marked. In another thread on this I posed a chart showing the channel and the AIS location of the grounded ship. The point of grounding is a straight line from the previous segment of the channel, shortly past a turn they should have made. So there seems no doubt what happened - they missed the turn. It will be very interesting to hear why once the investigation is published.
BruceK
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Well yes, but with the "Ever" shipping line, backup on alert seems indicated whenever it enters a waterway.
ranger58sb
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My understanding, foreign built/ foreign flagged vessels cannot, for example pick up cargo at Baltimore then deliver that same cargo to Norfolk. A foreign flagged vessel is permitted to make multiple stops at US ports.
This also came up in another thread about cruise ships and Alaska. Foreign registry passenger ships can’t pick up passengers in Seattle and drop them directly in Alaska. They have to stop in Canada first. During Covid lockdowns cruise ships couldn’t go to Canada so there was a big fuss about waiving the Jones Act so cruise ships could bypass Canada. My recollection anyway.
rslifkin
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I also agree with the interpretation that multiple drop-offs are fine. So while the ship couldn't pick anything up in Baltimore and bring it to Norfolk, it's fine to deliver part of the load to Baltimore, maybe pick up some containers for the return trip out of the US, then deliver the rest of the load to Norfolk (with the containers collected in Baltimore remaining onboard).
Report issued. Yep. Pilot on his cell phone.
https://chesapeakebaymagazine.com/bay-pilot-suspended-for-ever-forward-grounding/
https://chesapeakebaymagazine.com/bay-pilot-suspended-for-ever-forward-grounding/
wkearney99
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Article in the Post also: https://archive.ph/yw5hv
From Wikipedia:
'The once-strong Schlitz brand was relegated to cheap beer or "bargain brand" status and became increasingly difficult to find in bars and restaurants. Ironically enough, Stroh itself was beginning to struggle from the weight of its business, and had never been able to get out from under the debt it incurred when purchasing Schlitz. In 1999, Pabst Brewing Company gained control of the Schlitz brand with its acquisition of the Stroh Brewery Company.
During the reformulating period of the early 1970s, the original Schlitz beer formula was lost and never included in any of the subsequent sales of the company. Through research of documents and interviews with former Schlitz brewmasters and taste-testers, Pabst was able to reconstruct the 1960s classic formula. The new Schlitz beer, along with a new television advertising campaign, was officially introduced in 2008. The first markets for relaunching included Chicago, Florida, Boston, Minneapolis-Saint Paul, and Schlitz's former headquarters, Milwaukee. The classic 1960s theme was also reflected when 1968 Playboy magazine playmate Cynthia Myers became a spokeswoman for Schlitz beer in 2009.
In 2014, Pabst Brewing Company was purchased by American entrepreneur Eugene Kashper and TSG Consumer Partners. The deal included the Schlitz brand, as well as Pabst Blue Ribbon, Old Milwaukee, and Colt 45.
Pabst Brewing Company, now headquartered in Los Angeles, continues to produce Schlitz beer, Old Milwaukee, and four Schlitz malt liquors—Schlitz Red Bull, Schlitz Bull Ice, Schlitz High Gravity, and Schlitz Malt Liquor. Although it has fallen from its former title as one of America's most popular beers, the Schlitz brand is still alive today and remains a sentimental favorite in the Midwest.'
Schlitz Red Bull... I guess that's progress?
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catalinajack
Guru
I had a bottle of Schlitz at a bar in Deadwood, SD a couple of summers ago. It was quite good, far better than that ersatz beer called Budweiser.From Wikipedia:
'The once-strong Schlitz brand was relegated to cheap beer or "bargain brand" status and became increasingly difficult to find in bars and restaurants. Ironically enough, Stroh itself was beginning to struggle from the weight of its business, and had never been able to get out from under the debt it incurred when purchasing Schlitz. In 1999, Pabst Brewing Company gained control of the Schlitz brand with its acquisition of the Stroh Brewery Company.
During the reformulating period of the early 1970s, the original Schlitz beer formula was lost and never included in any of the subsequent sales of the company. Through research of documents and interviews with former Schlitz brewmasters and taste-testers, Pabst was able to reconstruct the 1960s classic formula. The new Schlitz beer, along with a new television advertising campaign, was officially introduced in 2008. The first markets for relaunching included Chicago, Florida, Boston, Minneapolis-Saint Paul, and Schlitz's former headquarters, Milwaukee. The classic 1960s theme was also reflected when 1968 Playboy magazine playmate Cynthia Myers became a spokeswoman for Schlitz beer in 2009.
In 2014, Pabst Brewing Company was purchased by American entrepreneur Eugene Kashper and TSG Consumer Partners. The deal included the Schlitz brand, as well as Pabst Blue Ribbon, Old Milwaukee, and Colt 45.
Pabst Brewing Company, now headquartered in Los Angeles, continues to produce Schlitz beer, Old Milwaukee, and four Schlitz malt liquors—Schlitz Red Bull, Schlitz Bull Ice, Schlitz High Gravity, and Schlitz Malt Liquor. Although it has fallen from its former title as one of America's most popular beers, the Schlitz brand is still alive today and remains a sentimental favorite in the Midwest.'
Schlitz Red Bull... I guess that's progress?
Sailor of Fortune
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