Dock Hands and the Bow Line

[seasalt007]

I have a single engine boat with two thursters but when we pull into a dock the dock hand insists on receiving a bow line which he secures and then runs back to wait on another line. When my boat is tight on the bow it is not going anywhere. My wife tries to tell the little Rudypoop* that she is going to throw a breast line or even the stern line so I can bring the bow over with the thruster. Then he starts yelling at her and I start yelling at them. Not pretty.

*Rudypoop...what my wife calls a young man who runs around "whistle britches" style barking orders while not having a clue.

Anyone else experienced this sort of dock hand?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 007. Sounds like "no tip" time with an added "You would have received a tip IF you had listened to directions from the Admiral."

 

[kchace]

my $.02 - As long as the instructions are clear, dock hands should do as you ask.

 

[Gdavid]

I have a single engine boat with two thursters but when we pull into a dock the dock hand insists on receiving a bow line which he secures and then runs back to wait on another line. When my boat is tight on the bow it is not going anywhere. My wife tries to tell the little Rudypoop* that she is going to throw a breast line or even the stern line so I can bring the bow over with the thruster. Then he starts yelling at her and I start yelling at them. Not pretty.

*Rudypoop...what my wife calls a young man who runs around "whistle britches" style barking orders while not having a clue.

Anyone else experienced this sort of dock hand?

Yes, I think we all have. I have a couple techniques to mitigate this behavior. I pause before I am within reach of the dock and politely tell them where I intend to place my dock lines. This is usually enough for anyone to realize the boat is well under control and doesn't need to be muscled into submission.

I don't attach the lines to the boat first, instead I hand over the eye end of the line for them to place around a cleat or loop around a piling and then adjust at the cleat onboard. With this method, if the dockhand isn't listening to you and just starts pulling, they find they aren't pulling against anything and eventually get the point. If they still aren't listening, I politely ask them to stand aside or I pull away from the dock.

 

[Shrew]

Most boats, such as those with twins, or single I/O's and outboards can spring off of the bow line. The dockhand is only going by what he knows works for the hundreds upon hundreds of boats he assists with. You know your boat, however Keep in mind he's caught more boats over a season than docks you've motored up too.

The dockhand was wrong to not take your advise. I'm just pointing out where he might have been coming from.

 

[GFC]

I'm with Gdavid. I have my wife toss them the loop end of the line so there's not much they can screw up with it. We get the lines secured while the Ruddypoops are standing around, then, after they have departed we make final adjustments.


I've never met a skipper worth a damn who didn't want to tie his own lines. He knows his boat and knows how it should be secured.

 

[Bacchus]

Yes, I think we all have. I have a couple techniques to mitigate this behavior. I pause before I am within reach of the dock and politely tell them where I intend to place my dock lines. This is usually enough for anyone to realize the boat is well under control and doesn't need to be muscled into submission.

I don't attach the lines to the boat first, instead I hand over the eye end of the line for them to place around a cleat or loop around a piling and then adjust at the cleat onboard. With this method, if the dockhand isn't listening to you and just starts pulling, they find they aren't pulling against anything and eventually get the point. If they still aren't listening, I politely ask them to stand aside or I pull away from the dock.

That approach works great.

 

[High Wire]

I'm with Gdavid. I have my wife toss them the loop end of the line so there's not much they can screw up with it.

Never fails, they pull it to them until they have enough to tie off to the cleat. The loop will be laying on the dock.

 

[Northern Spy]

Most boats, such as those with twins, or single I/O's and outboards can spring off of the bow line. The dockhand is only going by what he knows works for the hundreds upon hundreds of boats he assists with. You know your boat, however Keep in mind he's caught more boats over a season than docks you've motored up too.

The dockhand was wrong to not take your advise. I'm just pointing out where he might have been coming from.

While we are doing sweeping generalizations, chances are the roodypoop has watched endless amounts of old coots (it works both ways) smash and crash their boats into docks and other boats while "in control" of their boats...

 

[FF]

Toss a spliced eye to the dock helper.

Chances are he will drop it over the nearest cleat regardless of instructions and stand by waiting for his tip.

A long line allows the boats line handler to remain in control.

A well trained dock boy will drop the loop over the cleat you point at, worth his tip.

 

[Gdavid]

Never fails, they pull it to them until they have enough to tie off to the cleat. The loop will be laying on the dock.

I agree whole heartedly but since I haven't tied my end off they find themselves holding the whole damn thing. Once this gets their attention they can hand it back to me or take the eye of the spare one I have at the ready. I understand they deal with plenty of boaters that are a danger to themselves and I am always polite but they do need to listen or we pause until we are on the same page.

I think I am in the minority in preferring a slip rather than a spot along a floating dock or bulkhead. Around me, many of the marina's have a dedicated space that is easily accessed and doesn't require navigating fairways and placing lines on pilings to hold you off of fixed docks. Once this transient space is full they start placing visitors in the vacant seasonal slips. I much prefer the regular slip with lines to keep me off the dock rather than fenders to cushion me in what is frequently a highly trafficked area. I also enjoy visiting with the seasonal slip holders that know the area better then the other transients.

 

[dvd]

This appears to be an East Coast phenomenon - I've never seen a "Rudypoop" on the West Coast (maybe I just never go to marinas that have them). When I was cruising on the East Coat (and Canada) I would request from the bridge "Please don't help me!" nicely, but firmly. I learned this the hard way when I had some boat damage due to an overenthusiastic Rudypoop, but the marina took absolutely no responsibility, saying that I was the Captain and since my vessel was still under power I was therefore responsible. That was the last time any Rudypoop handled my lines...

My wife and I always talk through docking procedures before landing, we have a system that works great for us, so no sense adding uncontrollable variables (like Rudypoops) when there's enough things already, like wind, current, etc.

 

[psneeld]

Agree with Northern Spy.

For every good captain and crew, there are 10 newbies without skills or experience.

There is no right way to dock, there are variations.

I agree that dock hands should take not give docking instructions...but often they save the day versus ruin it.

I got thrown out of a marina when I argued with the dockmaster who was in charge. I told him he assigns the slip and I discuss then dock the boat if the assignment is acceptable.

He was trrying to tell me throttle commands when he refused to tie off a spring preventing the current and wind from driving my anchor into the rear of a Flemming.

We disagreed and he told me to leave which I gladly did. Most marinas compliment me on boat handling...this was just a disagreement on who was responsible for what.

When I asked who was going to pay for the damages to the Flemming , he tossed me.

So you meet all kinds cruising....as they do too.

 

[ranger58sb]

We've seen excellent dockhands... and then some others. I think I can see both sides of the coin, but knowing which is right in front of you at the time becomes an issue...

Our technique is to usually approach close enough to relay instructions in advance of lines... starting politely by wifey on the foredeck... and if necessary, emphasized from the bridge with my hailer. That includes where on the dock to attach the line...

Once we have agreement, and not before, the rest usually proceeds easily enough.

On a side tie-up, we usually pass the line we'll use as a forward spring, first. Once that's secured to pile or cleat on the dock (often the same pile or cleat we'll use for the bow line), we pull ourselves in tight to the dock and adjust length using engines, secure that line to a midships cleat on the boat... and we're basically docked. Add a bow line and a stern line at leisure...

-Chris

 

[seasalt007]

The dockhand is only going by what he knows works for the hundreds upon hundreds of boats he assists with. You know your boat, however Keep in mind he's caught more boats over a season than docks you've motored up too.

I seriously doubt it. Most experienced dock hands are not rudypoops.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Just keep in mind that the dock hand you're upset with for being overzealous in helping, just got told off by the dockmaster because someone had posted that the dock hand just stood there doing nothing until he yelled at him.

 

[Shrew]

I seriously doubt it.

Most don't dock as many times in a single season as a typical dock hand catches boats??

I should have used 'Probably' as the qualifier to account for ferry boat, pump put boat, and tender operators.

 

[jleonard]

We don't let them get a bow line. They get a mid ship line only.
Based on "where they put it" my first mate and I adjust.
Works for us.

 

[AlaskaProf]

We don't let them get a bow line. They get a mid ship line only.
Based on "where they put it" my first mate and I adjust.
Works for us.

My way also. Especially appropriate when single-handing. Easy to speak, not shout with dockhand from helm, and if I need to self-dock, the line is close at hand.

 

[psneeld]

One of the hardest concepts to get across is "exactly where do you want me?".

Most of the time I can put it there, then they want to move me 20 feet, or the office telks you one thing and tbe dockhand is somewheres else.

 

[tadhana]

Most boats, such as those with twins, or single I/O's and outboards can spring off of the bow line.

And so can single inboards too.

 

[mbevins]

We don't let them get a bow line. They get a mid ship line only.
Based on "where they put it" my first mate and I adjust.
Works for us.

That's our standard practice as well.

 

[dhays]

This whole discussion is interesting, since I can only recall docking at a marina where there were dockhands once. That was in Westview and the crew there were professional, courteous, and competent.

OTOH, I have had other boaters take a line plenty of times when I have come into a dock. For the most part, they are excellent. Usually, all they need to do is hold the line loosely as I bring the boat next to the dock. Once there, they will either tie off the line temporarily, or if I'm not alone, had the line to the crew member when they are available. If I need something else, they are very good at taking instruction or simply know what needs to be done without instruction.

Maybe the issue is that some of the seasonal help may not have lots of experience with docking large boats themselves.

 

[hmason]

Ever been to Paynes Dock at Block Island? They know how to put a boat with a 16' beam into a 14' wide slip. They can raft boats and squeeze boats into places you wouldn't think possible. Their dock folks are geniuses at telling the captain what to do andmaking it work perfectly.. If you don't take their advice they will ask you to find another marina to dock at. Just sayin'.

 

[BandB]

One of the hardest concepts to get across is "exactly where do you want me?".

Most of the time I can put it there, then they want to move me 20 feet, or the office telks you one thing and tbe dockhand is somewheres else.

Wifey B: That's what we need from dockhands, not line handling. If they don't seem sure, I wait outside the marina until they figure it out. And don't you love it when they pick a 35' space between two other boats and your boat is 40'? Or you have a 5' draft and they're telling you an area you know doesn't have 5' at low tide? Just tell me where and I'll put it there and if I need you to take a line, then I or someone will hand it to you and tell you what to do. It may be nothing more than just hold it until I can get out of the boat.

Still, the vast majority of dockhands have always been great. Bigger problem is other boaters who decide they want to help when there are no dock hands. Some are knowledgeable but some have no idea what is going on. It's like they're one manpower or often more like 3/4 manpower and they think they're going to control the boat when you have 2500 hp between engines and thrusters to do that job. I think some people believe when a boat is on water it becomes weightless. They don't go around trying to push cars but they think they can push boats.

I still appreciate they're willing. Funniest ones are when we dock our RIB in windy conditions. For any of you who have never handled jets, especially jet ribs, there's one simple rule-power. Now you can use that power in many ways. But in docking often you come in a bit faster than you might otherwise because you can ram it in reverse and sit it perfectly still. At idle speed against a 20 knot wind, you'd never reach the dock and you'd have no control. You don't have control when no water is gushing through. (Gushing....that's a technical term...).

 

[BandB]

Ever been to Paynes Dock at Block Island? They know how to put a boat with a 16' beam into a 14' wide slip. They can raft boats and squeeze boats into places you wouldn't think possible. Their dock folks are geniuses at telling the captain what to do andmaking it work perfectly.. If you don't take their advice they will ask you to find another marina to dock at. Just sayin'.

Wifey B: I don't like being packed like a sardine.

 

[jleonard]

Ever been to Paynes Dock at Block Island? They know how to put a boat with a 16' beam into a 14' wide slip. They can raft boats and squeeze boats into places you wouldn't think possible. Their dock folks are geniuses at telling the captain what to do andmaking it work perfectly.. If you don't take their advice they will ask you to find another marina to dock at. Just sayin'.

Yes on more than one occasion and you better do exactly as they say. If it's 2 seconds in forward it better not be 3. They are absolutely the BEST hands down.
Did you know Billy Schultz? He was a friend of mine.

 

[jleonard]

Wifey B: I don't like being packed like a sardine.

We don't either but that's part of the Block Island "charm". At a marina, on a mooring, or at anchor it's sardine city and worth every minute.
I actually can't wait to get back there this summer.

 

[BruceK]

Only time we experience dockhands is refueling. At the marina it`s the neighbours, they do listen to what we want, and now know our system of tying up.
We usually find fuel dock guys are good, they do it day in day out, at our Club they are usually sons of boat owners, which adds to experience. We had one bad experience elsewhere, a bow line went on, when I wanted and requested a stern line first.

 

[Gabe n Em]

Recently we encountered dock hands that would take a line off a cleat as load comes on because it starts to creak. "That's not a noise dock lines make! It was going to break!". Looking around the marina I realized it was almost entirely small boats. (<21'). It made one (attempted) use of a spring line a little "exciting"..... all's well that ends well....

We tell them where to put each line BEFORE we hand it to them.