diesel heater choice

[paulga]

I'm looking at a 8kw Chinese diesel heater brand that offers two configurations. The main difference b/t the two is: one has a large hot air outlet, remote control and LCD display, the other one has 4 smaller hot air outlets, no remote control, it has a knob thermostat instead of a LCD display.

the first configuration





the second configuration





is the type with 4 hot air outlets better? which one would you pick?

 

[Delta Riverat]

The one with the big exit.

 

[paulga]

The one with the big exit.

could you give any reasons?
from previous posts, the lcd switch panel tend to break down, so the knob style may last longer?

 

[Delta Riverat]

Just want to deal with one pipe rather than 4.

 

[Portage_Bay]

You can be sure the internals are identical. The 4 vs 1 hot air vents is simply a different end piece molding. Focus on the peripherals. Focus on the controller. Does it have the features you want. Try to find out if it uses the universal motherboard. If it does replacing the controller is easy.

I see these have the soft green fuel line. Likely to cause problems. Plan on replacing with the nylon kind.

You're probably going to need longer exhaust tubing.

Understand it is not likely to produce 8 KW heat output. These are Espar D4 knockoffs. A D4 produces 4 KW heat.

I just bought an Hcalory 8 KW heater. No complaints so far but it's output is nowhere near the output of the 8 KW Espar in the boat.

Years ago I lived abroad in Seattle. During the relative to your location cold snaps the D4 knockoff I installed could heat one cabin at a time.

 

[paulga]

i guess it's still better than having only space heaters that have to stay on low

You can be sure the internals are identical. The 4 vs 1 hot air vents is simply a different end piece molding. Focus on the peripherals. Focus on the controller. Does it have the features you want. Try to find out if it uses the universal motherboard. If it does replacing the controller is easy.

I see these have the soft green fuel line. Likely to cause problems. Plan on replacing with the nylon kind.

You're probably going to need longer exhaust tubing.

Understand it is not likely to produce 8 KW heat output. These are Espar D4 knockoffs. A D4 produces 4 KW heat.

I just bought an Hcalory 8 KW heater. No complaints so far but it's output is nowhere near the output of the 8 KW Espar in the boat.

Years ago I lived aoard in Seattle. During the relative to your location cold snaps the D4 knockoff I installed could heat one cabin at a time.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Yes indeed it is better than space heaters.

Sometimes my responses to your questions may seem critical. Consider them more as doses of reality born of hard learned lessons.

I gotta handit to you, you're learning a lot and learning very quickly under challenging conditions. A NYC winter.

i guess it's still better than having only space heaters that have to stay on low

 

[Lepke]

https://www.youtube.com/@johnmck1147


This Youtuber has done several videos on the Chinese heaters including installing, disassembly, and many tests on heat produced. The videos are worth watching.

The 8kw is the 5kw in a different housing. I have a 5 & 8 and they put out the same temp and airflow.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I have the 5 KW model (one of hundreds) just because I guessed right (and lot's of googling)

Still in a box in the garage. But when installed it will have one outlet in the saloon, exhaust out over the aft deck, combustion and return air from the saloon. Placed in a cupboard right on the aft deck wall no hoses will be over 3 feet long.

Not a big priority here in CA, a portable 4000 btu/hr propane heater will get the saloon up 10 degrees in 30 minutes but just a temporary solution while I work on other stuff.

 

[paulga]

the coldest phase is almost past as I'm struggling along the days

I hope to get the diesel heater set up before it is full summer

Yes indeed it is better than space heaters.

Sometimes my responses to your questions may seem critical. Consider them more as doses of reality born of hard learned lessons.

I gotta handit to you, you're learning a lot and learning very quickly under challenging conditions. A NYC winter.

 

[paulga]

Thanks!
will order a 5kw then

https://www.youtube.com/@johnmck1147


This Youtuber has done several videos on the Chinese heaters including installing, disassembly, and many tests on heat produced. The videos are worth watching.

The 8kw is the 5kw in a different housing. I have a 5 & 8 and they put out the same temp and airflow.

 

[Portage_Bay]

The Youtber Lepke points you to is excellent. You'll get a detailed understanding of these heaters.

Here's another that may be worth watching. Not nearly as technically detailed but a very good review of current offerings and their differences.

I see some people say buy two for spares. I think there is good reason to buy two for someone in your position. If the primary goes down, it's a quick swap for the secondary letting you repair the primary in a relaxed manner. That is when the Youtuber vids Lepke pointed to will really come in handy.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Don't focus on 5 vs 8. They really are the same machine with a different label. Often no difference in price. Focus as I said earlier on the components, extras and controller. Example, why buy a heater with the green hose when you know right out of the gate you should buy the nylon tubing for another $15?

Thanks!
will order a 5kw then

 

[paulga]

Don't focus on 5 vs 8. They really are the same machine with a different label. Often no difference in price. Focus as I said earlier on the components, extras and controller. Example, why buy a heater with the green hose when you know right out of the gate you should buy the nylon tubing for another $15?

I was informed some items in the bundle are low quality. I plan to use a 3/16" upgraded fuel line, among other recommended upgrades.

 

[jgwinks]

could you give any reasons?
from previous posts, the lcd switch panel tend to break down, so the knob style may last longer?

I had one several years ago on a prior boat and the control panel backlight failed. It still worked but it was very difficult to see the numbers. It's default setting was 20C or 68F which was about where I'd set it anyway so I just left it there. It didn't have Bluetooth or anything but it did have a key fob remote to turn out on and off. No temp control on it. We hung the remote on a hook in the vee berth and turned it on and off from there.
For fuel I put another pick up tube in the main tank and cut it a couple inches shorter than the engine pickup so the heater couldn't use up all my fuel.

 

[paulga]

I had one several years ago on a prior boat and the control panel backlight failed. It still worked but it was very difficult to see the numbers. It's default setting was 20C or 68F which was about where I'd set it anyway so I just left it there. It didn't have Bluetooth or anything but it did have a key fob remote to turn out on and off. No temp control on it. We hung the remote on a hook in the vee berth and turned it on and off from there.
For fuel I put another pick up tube in the main tank and cut it a couple inches shorter than the engine pickup so the heater couldn't use up all my fuel.

yes, I remember the number 68F. so I was reading your post.

 

[Portage_Bay]

If you haven't ordered yet Hcalory and probably others as well now have full control via Bluetooth app.

 

[paulga]

If you haven't ordered yet Hcalory and probably others as well now have full control via Bluetooth app.

No, haven't ordered
Vevor, the brand I'm looking at, also has Bluetooth option for $15 more.
I guess all these brands are from the same assembly line

 

[Marco Flamingo]

The UK has just banned the importation of Vevor brand of diesel heaters and Vevor has started a recall (January 11, 2024). The reason? "potential for passengers to inhale dangerous levels of poisonous gases should the product not be installed correctly." Okay. Same could be said for my Ford Lehman diesel engine (actually made in the UK).

Apparently, the distinguishing fault of the Vevor diesel heater is that the installation instructions aren't clear. Same could be said of the majority of items from China, including other diesel heaters.

Interesting about Vevor agreeing to a recall. I would have thought remediation would be simple and less costly. Send out a notification with clear installation guidelines and a free CO monitor. Not only would the diesel heater be safer, but also boats with diesel engines (or any engine).

 

[Portage_Bay]

Hard to understand why poor installation is a fault. Poor instructions? Yes. It's what we all expect from cheap Chinese goods. Buy as you say, why not issue better instructions as opposed to a recall?

In 2017 I purchased a Calaer heater from Fisheries. I think it was a re-marketed Chinese D4 knockoff. Came with excellent instructions. Don't install in the inhabited spaces, use high temp sealant on the exhaust joints.

It was on overpriced POS but the Chinese heaters had not hit the market big time yet.

The UK has just banned the importation of Vevor brand of diesel heaters and Vevor has started a recall (January 11, 2024). The reason? "potential for passengers to inhale dangerous levels of poisonous gases should the product not be installed correctly." Okay. Same could be said for my Ford Lehman diesel engine (actually made in the UK).

Apparently, the distinguishing fault of the Vevor diesel heater is that the installation instructions aren't clear. Same could be said of the majority of items from China, including other diesel heaters.

Interesting about Vevor agreeing to a recall. I would have thought remediation would be simple and less costly. Send out a notification with clear installation guidelines and a free CO monitor. Not only would the diesel heater be safer, but also boats with diesel engines (or any engine).

 

[paulga]

Is vevor is the only victim while other knockoffs continue to be allowed to sell in UK?

It couldn't be more popular than others, given all are derived or copied from the same technology

The UK has just banned the importation of Vevor brand of diesel heaters and Vevor has started a recall (January 11, 2024). The reason? "potential for passengers to inhale dangerous levels of poisonous gases should the product not be installed correctly." Okay. Same could be said for my Ford Lehman diesel engine (actually made in the UK).

Apparently, the distinguishing fault of the Vevor diesel heater is that the installation instructions aren't clear. Same could be said of the majority of items from China, including other diesel heaters.

Interesting about Vevor agreeing to a recall. I would have thought remediation would be simple and less costly. Send out a notification with clear installation guidelines and a free CO monitor. Not only would the diesel heater be safer, but also boats with diesel engines (or any engine).

 

[Rusty Scupper]

I installed an 8 K Chinese heater 2 years ago in my boat. It raises cabin temp from 50 degrees F to 70 degrees in about 30 mins. Ran the exhaust out the aft cabin bulkhead to aft deck. Nice dry heat blows forward and warms fwd. stateroom nicely. Also bought an extra controller for a spare for about $15. - $20 . So far I'm really happy with it.
I'm afraid to sleep with it running though in case of C.O. poisoning or fire.

 

[paulga]

Maybe only run it overnight in the coldest week with a set timer and install multiple co detectors

I installed an 8 K Chinese heater 2 years ago in my boat. It raises cabin temp from 50 degrees F to 70 degrees in about 30 mins. Ran the exhaust out the aft cabin bulkhead to aft deck. Nice dry heat blows forward and warms fwd. stateroom nicely. Also bought an extra controller for a spare for about $15. - $20 . So far I'm really happy with it.
I'm afraid to sleep with it running though in case of C.O. poisoning or fire.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I think CO risk is from combustion, not the heated air. If the heater is in the engine room and the engine room is well vented the risk is minimal. Keep the exhaust in good shape and use CO detectors.

Maybe only run it overnight in the coldest week with a set timer and install multiple co detectors

 

[Delta Riverat]

I don't worry about sleeping, the colder the better. Get me some flannel PJ's and pile up the blankets. Snug like a bug inna rug!

I'll fire the heater when I get up in the morning -

 

[Portage_Bay]

I think CO risk is from combustion, not the heated air. If the heater is in the engine room and the engine room is well vented the risk is minimal. Keep the exhaust in good shape and use CO detectors.

Maybe only run it overnight in the coldest week with a set timer and install multiple co detectors

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Is vevor is the only victim while other knockoffs continue to be allowed to sell in UK?

It sounds like UK custom inspected a shipment of Vevor heaters and made the decision on Vevor. I don't know if they were aware of thousands of identical units coming in under other brand names. I'm sure they are now.

We also turn ours off at night and enjoy the toastiness of a down comforter. Since our unit came with a remote fob, we can simply turn on the heat for a few minutes before getting up to start the coffee. I haven't yet found a fob to start the coffee.

I was at the boat today and turned on the diesel heater. I just bought a little digital thermometer that shows the "inside" temperature and three remotes. I put one of the remotes in the engine room. I was surprised to see that the diesel heater raised the engine room temperature at the same rate as the cabin temp even though there are no registers in the ER. ER is smaller and the remote is near the ceiling, but still a lot of heat radiating off of just the exhaust in the ER and maybe the first couple of feet of ductwork before it enters the cabin. I'll have to think about whether there is a way to get more of that heat into the cabin.

 

[Portage_Bay]

The heaters do "waste" a lot of heat out the exhaust. Youtube has numerous videos of hackers trying to recover exhaust heat. Some are clever and show promise, some as usual for Youtube are pretty stupid.

I see three challenges, I'm sure there are more but as "they" say, I don't know what I don't know.

• If I were to pass air over or adjacent to the exhaust pipe and the pipe leaks, even a tiny bit, I am introducing exhaust gasses to the living space.
• What happens when diesel exhaust is cooled? What by products are generated? How do those affect the exhaust tubing? A quick search turns up this paper Effect of cooling recirculated exhaust gases on diesel engine emissions. I haven't read it but it may help to understand the chemistry.
• These heaters don't like their exhaust restricted, enough restriction and they won't light.

One of the youtubers experimented with using a diesel EGR cooler. This would mean transferring the "waste" heat to water, then pumping that water to the living space to an air handler similar to what hydronic systems use. Yes, complicated, more parts, more power required. But if any exhaust leak in the system introduces the toxins to the water, I won't be breathing the water. It might be better to use the EGR cooler to heat domestic water?

You're a clever out of the box thinker. I will be interesting to see what you come up with if you decide to try it.

I was surprised to see that the diesel heater raised the engine room temperature at the same rate as the cabin temp even though there are no registers in the ER. ER is smaller and the remote is near the ceiling, but still a lot of heat radiating off of just the exhaust in the ER and maybe the first couple of feet of ductwork before it enters the cabin. I'll have to think about whether there is a way to get more of that heat into the cabin.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I also saw some of those YouTube videos on trying to scavenge heat from the exhaust. One if the best, I thought, was to route the exhaust through a vintage cast iron radiator. Not a good fit for my engine room, but an old cast iron radiator seems almost purpose built for this.

One of the downsides to cooling the exhaust is that it contains a lot of water and some nasties. Too much water accumulation and one has created a hookah pipe, further increasing the condensation. Might be better to just let that heat go "out the door."

But my hot air side might be improved. I haven't been impressed with the aluminized paper tubing that seems to be the standard accessory. I saw a YouTube where they used a silicon high-temp fitting to go to 4" dryer venting. Dryer vent pipe is easy to work with and cheap, but I've never seen insulted dryer vent. Maybe there is a need for such a product in "air conditioned" parts of the country?

 

[Portage_Bay]

Marco,


I too saw the cast iron radiator video. Great idea, not gonna fit on a boat. I wonder if the condensation problem can be sloved by having the entire exhaust run slope down?

A quick search on 4" insulation ducting turns up a number of choices. For a new install insulated flex duct. Could be just the ticket.