Concrete ballast -- Willard Voyager

[melissar]

Hi,

We are searching for a boat and are intrigued by the Willards. I've found a 1973 30' Voyager for sale, but am concerned about what I've read about the concrete ballast and the potential for moisture, bulkhead movement and the steel used in the concrete mix. I'd love it if some current Willard owners would address this issue and give me some more information. Don't want to be frightened off, but also don't want to bite off more than we are willing to chew. Knowledge is definitely power at this stage of our search. Thanks!

 

[Nomad Willy]

melissar,
This problem is one to avoid to be sure but a good surveyor should be able to identify a ballast problem. I did have the problem and am a survivor. How I became aware of it’s presence was to observe my fwd lazarette bulkhead bending fwd in the center. We had to remove all the ballast aft of the laz bulkhead. One thing led to another and it was a big two size jackhammer job. Had a new FG stern tube made in Bellingham. No problems since.

Not the end of the world but still one to avoid. You can log into the Willard websites. The most informative is WBO (Willard Boat Owners) on yahoo groups. Much was written there even by myself concerning the ballast issue. Spending some time there will probably not be wasted time. PM me and stay tuned. My problem was 12-14 years ago so new solutions and experiences have probably evolved.

 

[melissar]

That's exactly what we want to avoid . Glad it turned out well for you -- good to know we might be able to pick up on a problem, prior to an expensive survey. Your boat is beautiful, by the way.

 

[Bob Burnham]

concrete ballast

Eric,
I understand your decision to remove the ballast on your boat .... I'm curious as to the structural reseason for the failure causing the movement? Was concrete used in all 30s in the '73-'76 production years? I understand the natural cracks overtime ... resulting in water intrusion & freezing perhaps while on the hard? Were most hulls subject to some type of failure in time ... if not handled in the manor you described?

Thanks in advance for your response. Bob

 

[Nomad Willy]

Bob the corrosion/rust causes the metal to expand or grow. Enough of that and the concrete will grow too .. and crack. That's why my bulkhead was bending. And this expansion presumably caused the stern tube to fail. My boat was on the hard and freezing may well have been involved. But most all the bilge water goes into the "well" just ahead of the laz bulkhead .. but this could have been a "through the bulkhead" to the laz issue.

As far as I know all these Willards had the same concrete ballast. There is another Willard owner near me in the marina that has a W30 made in the mid to late 80's. I'll ask him if they have the same ballast.

 

[Bob Burnham]

Eric,

Good information. Thanks,

Bob

 

[Lostsailor13]

All the concrete ballast has been removed in Broadbill for over 40 years,and replaced with 60lb lead ingots,over 30 of them,all strategically placed so still water water will drain

 

[mvweebles]

All the concrete ballast has been removed in Broadbill for over 40 years,and replaced with 60lb lead ingots,over 30 of them,all strategically placed so still water water will drain

Are you sure? The W36 was spec'd at something close to 6000 lbs ballast. I removed the ballast from beneath my forward stateroom and it was over 850 lbs alone - and that's a relatively tiny compartment for ballast.

About 10-15 years ago, there was a guy on Willard Boat Owners group who toop a hurricane-damaged W36 and removed all the ballast and epoxy'ed in lead ingots. I'll have to go back and see if he gave an idea of weight.

BTW - while I'm not a fan of concrete ballast, it's okay as long as it's kept relatively dry. Many owners tolerate a lot of pooling in their bilges. Not a good environment for concrete. Only reason I changed my ballast was for a bow thruster and wanted to recover some space. Other than that, ballast is in good condition.

Peter

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I looked at the Willard Vega for months and found two nice ones for sale in the PNW. A broker let me spend time onboard one of them to do my own survey. There was some bulging around the stern tube. I found that there was access forward by removing floor panels and looked into the bilge there. Brought tears to my eyes. Every boat is a project, but this was more than I wanted to undertake. As it turned out, Covid hit and I didn't do much cruising for a couple years anyway. That is about the amount of time it would have taken me to fix the "concrete" ballast. Love the lines, the layout, the 4 cyl diesel, but glad I walked. I heard that the owner replaced the ballast in order to sell. Too late for me.

 

[mvweebles]

I looked at the Willard Vega for months and found two nice ones for sale in the PNW. A broker let me spend time onboard one of them to do my own survey. There was some bulging around the stern tube. I found that there was access forward by removing floor panels and looked into the bilge there. Brought tears to my eyes. Every boat is a project, but this was more than I wanted to undertake. As it turned out, Covid hit and I didn't do much cruising for a couple years anyway. That is about the amount of time it would have taken me to fix the "concrete" ballast. Love the lines, the layout, the 4 cyl diesel, but glad I walked. I heard that the owner replaced the ballast in order to sell. Too late for me.

Yikes!!! That bilge was wet for years to look like that.

I took the attached pic a couple weeks ago as the fuel system rebuild was underway, but you can see the concrete ballast beneath the engine and outboard of the stringers. Yes, it's been painted, but it's rock solid (literally) even after 52 years.

That said, concrete ballast has been a problem on a small percentage of Willards. It's a potential problem because these are heavily ballasted boats. I don't remember how much ballast the W30 carries, but my W36 carries 6000 lbs, well over 20% of its displacement. For comparison, the 60,000 lb Nordhavn 46 carries 4800 lbs ballast, about 8% of its displacement.

Peter