Canadians doing the Great Loop US Border/Homeland Security

[CaptainMay]

Hi Everyone, trying to find some info on this, so much conflicting info on the Internet

It seems to me that looking at official us gov sites that as a Canadian doing the loop I need to tell CBP Customs Border Protection everytime I move my boat while in the us when I have a cruising permit, which seams crazy. Us boaters entering Canada to do the loop don't have to do this.

Some internet searches say it needs to be done only when you enter a new CBP region

Is there anyone here with insights on how Canadians can do the loop without having to check in with every movement of the boat?

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. Wish I could help but I don’t want to give you incorrect info.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Best inquire in writing about the regulations. I stress in writing because I've found, in the past, calling various CBP offices may get you different answers to your questions depending on who answers the phone at the other end. Keep your written answers on hand with your ship's papers.



As I understand it, you ARE required to notify CBP every time you change regions. We kept our boat in the US full time and the only requirement up until recently (5 years?) was that we renew our cruising permit yearly. (Go to CBP office, show papers, pay $$ and thank you very much).
At some point the laws changed and we then had to turn in our permit and leave the country for 2 weeks and then re-apply for a new cruising permit on our re-entry to the US.

 

[CaptainMay]

"we then had to turn in our permit and leave the country for 2 weeks and then re-apply for a new cruising permit on our re-entry to the US."

Thats my concern, since the permit is to the boat and not the person(s) It makes some scenarios impossible or extremely difficult.

The details are found offically here:
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Arti... new license will not,a foreign port or place

For example lets say I'm on the loop I enter Chicago in late fall. I make my way down to Florida Keys for the winter. Then decide to fly back to Canada for Christams for a few weeks.

If the permit is tied to the boat, I shouldn't have to surrender the permit when I return to Canada. And I can fly back whenever and resume the loop.

Now the tricky part is what if I get to NYC and Hudson, and decide to take a year break, put the boat on the hard somewhere in NY State for a season and then resume the next year.

Now my permit I would surrender this time, and leave back to Canada.

As this is written it seems I cannot get a new permit since the Boat must leave US Waters for 15 days. Which is really impossible to do. Its not like I'm going to Bermuda to make tjhis happen!

I know there's another way where you have to tell CPB each port you visit and you cannot leave the boat. Might be doable to get to Lake Ontario from there, but what if I did this when the boat is say in Alabama?

There's no way to get the boat out of US Waters from there.

I

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Yup. It's tough but ya gotta abide by the rules. One possibility is import the boat into the US, licence it there, pay the tax then re-import into Canada. Fun huh?

 

[CaptainMay]

It looks like the only option for Canadians is to basically do the loop within a year.

Into Chicago in Sep/Oct, get the cruising permit, follow the weather, get back into Lake Ontario/St Lawrence by then, which should be no problem.

This also brings up the 6 month stay for Canadians. (We can stay 6 months after entry to the US)

Now you can reset this by exiting and re-entering the US, but abusing that could have consequences. If I winter in the Bahamas vs Florida this would make it easier as reentering the US to Florida in late spring would give plenty of time to make it back up the ICW, Erie canal etc back to Lake Ontario

It looks like the safest way is to pre apply for a B-2 (Vistor Visa) with an extended stay (1 year)

You can apply for the extension while in the US but it could be denied, which could leave you rushing.

I'm hoping to find out what other Canadians have done, I'm still a few years off from this but all this requires planning. Boat purchase, insurance, the actual navigation plan, visas, health care etc.

I might have to join the AGLCA to talk with their members on their forums, surely there must be some Canadians that have done this.


Anyways thanks for the replies!

 

[boatpoker]

Is there anyone here with insights on how Canadians can do the loop without having to check in with every movement of the boat?

US Cruising License & Permit to Proceed

 

[twistedtree]

What about registering the boat in some US state. Don't give up your Canadian registration, just add a US state registration and proceed on that. A number of states have low/no use tax.

 

[CaptainMay]

Don't think registering it matters

As a non us citizen I cannot document with the coast guard so it cannot be a national registration. Ie not a us flagged boat

So CBP will treat it as a foreign vessel because I'm a foreign citizen

I think best plan is to plan to hit the Bahamas in winter early spring and get a new cruising permit on reentry into Florida

That gives plenty of time I plan on starting in Kingston, On


The only monkey wrench is if there is a major disruption if I'm far from Canada during the loop and I have to bail for an extended time

That would mean selling the boat, transporting it overland etc

The laws are written for the majority of the use cases, the loop is an oddity when it comes to foreign vessel visits to the us

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CM. Don't register the boat. Licence it. With the hassle we went through with our trawler (Canadian flagged), similar to what you finding out about, we easily decided to licence our replacement boat in FL. No problems with length of stay, checking in and out of CBP zones or re-entering the US from the Bahamas (STILL have to check in with CBP 'cause we're Canadians, eh?) but the boat is NOT any issue what-so-ever.


Start off in Kingston. Hit the first DMV office in NY and get the licence. NY XXXXXXX. Pay the tax and you should be good to go, boatwise anyway. When you return, just reverse the procedure. Just might work....or maybe not.

 

[PaulB.]

Things have changed!

Hi Captain May. We have had several USA cruising permits. 2005 east coast loop into Maine, 2018 bringing Blue Moon up from Annapolis, 2019/20 doing the loop and 2022 for Lake Champlain and western Erie. The application of the law has changed each time and varied from state to state. Kim at the ALGCA will have the most current information. The old daily reporting is gone! (Although upper NY state???)
1) Doing the loop we only had to report in once each jurisdiction which could include several internal states.
2) Most recently the permit was obtained for free by telephone and no daily reporting was asked for.
3) We went to the Bahama,s for a month to get the second cruising license and obtained a one at Fort Lauderdale when we returned.
4) Friends obtained a state license to duplicate their Canadian registration but I can’t comment on the legalities. It may turn on whether the boat is made in USA / Canada as opposed to being an overseas import.
We are in Bowmanville an you can PM me if you have any particular questions.
Paul

 

[twistedtree]

Re reporting in, I have Canadian friends who have been yelled at for checking in unnecessarily, yelled at for not checking in, told to check in always, and told to only check in when crossing CBP regional boundaries. And nobody could tell them where the CBP boundaries are.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. PB. I always get strange looks when I tell people we were forced to go to the Bahamas. Oh, the agony...

 

[MacPhid]

Captain May, we did the loop in 2018/19 starting on the Trent Severn. As others have stated, it comes down to the CBP officer you are speaking with. Generally inland waters such as the Great Lakes and inland rivers to the Gulf don't really know why you are calling them, so we would call wehen we hit a major centre that would likely have a district Office. We've been re-routed to airports (Chicago) where they have no clue about cruising licenses. Once you hit salt water they have a better understanding of the cruising license and will take your information and wish you a good trip. Others will want to know why you didn't check in sooner as they can see you last checked in in a previous state/CBP zone.
Stay calm and answer any questions honestly, and most important, keep a log of calls and phone numbers you completed or attempted. The CBP officers are generally easy to deal with and quite welcoming. It's not as bad as it seems

James

 

[MacPhid]

Captain May,

I will say as well that the AGLCA is a great resource if you are planning a loop, well worth the membership!

James
(AGLCA 8340, lifetime member)

 

[Jeff F]

I'm hoping to find out what other Canadians have done, I'm still a few years off from this but all this requires planning. Boat purchase, insurance, the actual navigation plan, visas, health care etc.

Right. Lots to sort through. The cruising permit and checking in should be the least of your concerns.

I'm a Canadian and have looped a couple of times. My strategy has been to limit my time in the US to stay within visitor visa requirements, and spend enough time in Canada to maintain my OHIP coverage. I'm fortunate to have travel insurance coverage through my spouse's employer. So my boat may spend 10 months in the US but I split my time between the boat and Canada.

This is effectively the strategy that most snowbirds employ. It doesn't really matter whether you're traveling by boat, car, motorhome, or visiting owned/rented property.

Boat insurance is getting increasingly challenging. The second time I went south, two years ago, there were more hoops to jump through getting coverage. It's going to be especially difficult without progressive boat ownership experience. That may be your biggest challenge.

Agree on the recommendation on joining AGLCA. They maintain lots of useful information on routing and common challenges.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[gholmesbm]

The process for reporting your movements between cruising ports of call while travelling in the US on a cruising permit is now much easier using the CBP ROAM app. The app saves your boat and master particulars and you just have to submit your new location when you change ports.

The process takes a couple of minutes to submit and they respond to confirm usually within a few minutes in my experience.

A big improvement over the old phone-in process.

 

[Jeff F]

A big improvement over the old phone-in process.

Agreed. Does it work in the western sections? I lost the ability to check in via ROAM after I left Florida going up the rivers. Hope it's been enabled since I was through that section 18 months ago.