Aqualloy 22 vs 19 and where to buy?

[angus99]

So the TF brain trust is going to cost me a small fortune since I’m taking your good advice and springing for new prop shafts.

In considering Aqualloy 22 vs 19, a manufacturer told me that either will experience crevice corrosion if the boat doesn’t move for months at a time and water is allowed to stagnate in the bearings and stuffing box (think winter). Aqualloy 22 is not immune from crevice corrosion, but is more resistant to it than 19. He said that simply rotating the shafts monthly with a strap wrench (assuming the engines are laid up for the winter and can’t be started) will replenish the oxygenated water and greatly slow the progression of crevice corrosion. So, I haven’t ruled out A-19 yet but would appreciate any thoughts.

Second question: two 16-ft A-22 shafts through major suppliers on the Chesapeake total about $11K plus tax and shipping. Deep Blue Yacht Supply in Fort Lauderdale prices the identical shafts at just over $7K (+ T&S). It sounds like a no-brainer, but I’d like to know if anyone has experience with Deep Blue before pulling the trigger.

Thanks!

 

[O C Diver]

So maybe I'm missing something, are you in the water for the winter or out? If out, the cutlass bearings (hope you are planning on replacing all) have grooves that allow the water to drain.

If you're sitting in the water and really concerned about oxygen content, why not plumb the shaft tubes to be able to flush the tube periodically with water? Even better, blow the shaft tubes dry and let new water slowly work its way back in.

Ted

 

[O C Diver]

Second question: two 16-ft A-22 shafts through major suppliers on the Chesapeake total about $11K plus tax and shipping. Deep Blue Yacht Supply in Fort Lauderdale prices the identical shafts at just over $7K (+ T&S). It sounds like a no-brainer, but I’d like to know if anyone has experience with Deep Blue before pulling the trigger.

Thanks!

Have you priced the shipping and crating cost? Objects that fit on a pallet are somewhat expensive to ship truck freight. Loading and unloading 16'+ items that can't be loaded easily with a forklift, shipping, the cost of crating, and INSURANCE isn't going to be cheap. Might be cheaper to drive to Florida and rent a Uhaul trailer to bring them back.

Ted

 

[angus99]

Ted, I’m in the water most winters in the areas we cruise. That could change if we head north next summer and—as you say—just making sure all of the cutless bearings (three per shaft) drain should be all that’s needed when we’re out of the water.

All the cutless bearings are being replaced, even though they’re under 5 years old. The shaft tubes are plumbed, but the crevice corrosion happens anywhere the shafts are exposed to stagnant water over many months at a time, including within the cutless bearings. That’s what the rep was explaining to me and it’s born out by the corrosion we’re seeing on the existing 37-year-old shafts.

I got a price for crating and shipping both shafts—$475. That’s going to almost certainly be cheaper/less hassle than the trailer rental, gas and time it would take me to transport them.

Unless the yard has a surcharge for using a non-local source for the shafts, It’s an easy choice to go with Deep Blue. I’m just not familiar with them or their work and am trying to find someone that is. Also, if anyone regrets going with Aqualloy 19 vs the more corrosion-resistant A 22 material.

Thanks for the quick feedback. Always appreciated.

 

[Datenight]

I went with the 22 when replacing the shaft on my NP 45 at the recommendation of a local supplier. The price difference was about 15% +.

Rob

 

[jgwinks]

Have you priced the shipping and crating cost? Objects that fit on a pallet are somewhat expensive to ship truck freight. Loading and unloading 16'+ items that can't be loaded easily with a forklift, shipping, the cost of crating, and INSURANCE isn't going to be cheap. Might be cheaper to drive to Florida and rent a Uhaul trailer to bring them back.

Ted

That's an advantage we have here in Michigan. Henry Smith Co in Algonac MI is the big guy in shaft and prop work around here and they have a truck that runs around to all the marinas and boat yards in the area picking up and dropping off. They don't charge for that and you can be sure the loaders and drivers are going to take care of the items since it's THEIR product. A couple years ago I had to have a shaft and coupler replaced at Port Charles Harbor north of St Louis MO. It came motor freight from some random truck company and on arrival the shaft crating was all busted up and the coupler had rolled around and was hiding under some other freight. Port Charles' parts guy wisely refused delivery and sent it back which caused another three week delay in getting the boat fixed. I'm back in Michigan now and am going to do the other shaft, I'm going to have Henry Smith pick up and deliver in their own truck.

I did get a shaft from Deep Blue Sea for a sailboat about 10 years ago and was happy with it, but it was only a 1" x 5' shaft so not the same thing at all as for a trawler. As I recall it was A19 but in fresh water that's good enough.

 

[angus99]

Just the latest on this odyssey. The variation in pricing new shafts is even more extreme than I imagined. Pricing per identical Aqualoy or Aquamet 22 shafts about 16’ long by 1.75” dia. from various fabricators.

—On the Chesapeake—$5,300 to $7,400
—Florida (Deep Blue)—$3570
—Michigan—$3500

The Chesapeake pricing is from two dealers in the same network (!) sourcing identical shafts from Western Branch Metals (which doesn’t sell directly to the public).

Shipping costs from Michigan or Florida don’t begin to touch the $2K to $3K price difference per shaft. So buying from MI or FL should be a no-brainer.

Well, the yard where we’re currently hauled is balking at using shafts from any source they don’t normally deal with. Going with their pricing would add $4K to $5K to the final bill.

On the other hand, one of the lower-cost suppliers—Deep Blue—has extremely mixed reviews. They’re either one or five stars and their mailing address is a UPS store.

So, if the yard insists on using shafts at inflated costs, I may have to move to different yard.

Fun/fun!

 

[O C Diver]

Just the latest on this odyssey. The variation in pricing new shafts is even more extreme than I imagined. Pricing per identical Aqualoy or Aquamet 22 shafts about 16’ long by 1.75” dia. from various fabricators.

—On the Chesapeake—$5,300 to $7,400
—Florida (Deep Blue)—$3570
—Michigan—$3500

The Chesapeake pricing is from two dealers in the same network (!) sourcing identical shafts from Western Branch Metals (which doesn’t sell directly to the public).

Shipping costs from Michigan or Florida don’t begin to touch the $2K to $3K price difference per shaft. So buying from MI or FL should be a no-brainer.

Well, the yard where we’re currently hauled is balking at using shafts from any source they don’t normally deal with. Going with their pricing would add $4K to $5K to the final bill.

On the other hand, one of the lower-cost suppliers—Deep Blue—has extremely mixed reviews. They’re either one or five stars and their mailing address is a UPS store.

So, if the yard insists on using shafts at inflated costs, I may have to move to different yard.

Fun/fun!

Just to be clear, was the yard supplying the shafts (markup) from the Chesapeake or do they add something if you supply the shafts? Is it customary (at that yard) to send the customer to get the shafts and maybe the supplier is paying a commission to the boatyard? It's one thing if you buy and install yourself. It's another if you're expecting them to install (without markup) stuff you purchased elsewhere. Finally, would you expect the yard to stand behind anything (including the installation) you supplied?

Ted

 

[Bmarler]

Shipping a shaft is risky business. Lots of opportunity for damage to a 16 foot piece of shaft.
I would consider paying a premium for the shaft if the yard will provide a good warranty.

 

[DDW]

Aquamet 19 is 17-4PH stainless steel, Aquamet 22 is duplex stainless. I would not use 19 in a boat kept in salt water. While both can suffer crevice corrosion, the 19 will corrode, period.

 

[angus99]

Just to be clear, was the yard supplying the shafts (markup) from the Chesapeake or do they add something if you supply the shafts? Is it customary (at that yard) to send the customer to get the shafts and maybe the supplier is paying a commission to the boatyard? It's one thing if you buy and install yourself. It's another if you're expecting them to install (without markup) stuff you purchased elsewhere. Finally, would you expect the yard to stand behind anything (including the installation) you supplied?

Ted

The yard was quoting prices from suppliers they normally use which, I’m quite sure, includes a major markup. But we’re still negotiating.

Maybe I’m living in an alternate reality, but time and materials ought to be just that. I pay the yard for its time, skills and expertise. I expect the yard to stand by its work and I expect materials suppliers to stand behind their products. If a shaft arrives out of spec, that should be on the shaft supplier, not the yard. If the yard spends time uncrating the shafts, I should pay them for that. I fail to see any value-add to the customer by simply adding a 40-50% markup for shafts—whether they arrive from their preferred sources or from mine if I find an equivalent product at a better price. And all cases we’re talking about highly reputable manufacturers. If they’re good enough for yacht builders and manufactured with the identical materials to the very same .0005” tolerances—what additional risk is the yard facing? The yard incurs no additional costs or overhead regardless of who supplies the shafts, so why the surcharge?

Sorry for the rant, but boat yard and hospital/drug pricing are three areas that confound me.

 

[angus99]

Aquamet 19 is 17-4PH stainless steel, Aquamet 22 is duplex stainless. I would not use 19 in a boat kept in salt water. While both can suffer crevice corrosion, the 19 will corrode, period.

I’m all but certain to go with A-22, but I wonder how A-19 compares with the original 37-year-old shafts in the boat. I’ve heard that’s it’s most likely 304, or a Taiwanese equivalent. While they’re crevice corroded, they have held up a long time in salt water.

 

[O C Diver]

The yard was quoting prices from suppliers they normally use which, I’m quite sure, includes a major markup. But we’re still negotiating.

Maybe I’m living in an alternate reality, but time and materials ought to be just that. I pay the yard for its time, skills and expertise. I expect the yard to stand by its work and I expect materials suppliers to stand behind their products. If a shaft arrives out of spec, that should be on the shaft supplier, not the yard. If the yard spends time uncrating the shafts, I should pay them for that. I fail to see any value-add to the customer by simply adding a 40-50% markup for shafts—whether they arrive from their preferred sources or from mine if I find an equivalent product at a better price. And all cases we’re talking about highly reputable manufacturers. If they’re good enough for yacht builders and manufactured with the identical materials to the very same .0005” tolerances—what additional risk is the yard facing? The yard incurs no additional costs or overhead regardless of who supplies the shafts, so why the surcharge?

Sorry for the rant, but boat yard and hospital/drug pricing are three areas that confound me.

I can see both sides. Everybody wants to save money on the big ticket items.

I don't expect the boatyard to apply my bottom paint that I bought somewhere else for $25 less per gallon, if they sell the same thing.

I can also see where the lack of profit on jobs with significant risk (cost of time and materials to redo) can motivate a boatyard to decline a job.

Ted

 

[angus99]

I’d be OK paying a reasonable (8-10%) markup. But a 40-50% surcharge for the same quality shafts is just unsupportable.

 

[DDW]

I’m all but certain to go with A-22, but I wonder how A-19 compares with the original 37-year-old shafts in the boat. I’ve heard that’s it’s most likely 304, or a Taiwanese equivalent. While they’re crevice corroded, they have held up a long time in salt water.

Good question. I have some of both (17-4PH and 304) on both boats, in my experience at least above the waterline, the 304 holds up better. Of course, 316 or duplex is much better than either.